Obsidian devs after the Limerick controversy..

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

My point is that it doesn't directly reflect the thoughts, ideas, views. opinions, or beliefs of the author. An authors story is not a mirror, directly reflecting everything the author is. It's a creation that the author controls; therefore it can reflect the author directly or it can simply be things he chose for any of a number of ulterior motives.

 

My point is I never said it does as a rule. I said it makes sense, and I said there's a friggin' interview with Avellone where he directly states agreeing with Ulysses on multiple fronts. Even that is besides the point, because again, I never said it does, hence why I said "I feel strawman'ed."

 

Well I'm sorry that you feel like that. You said directly that you are surprised that they reacted in such a way because you would expect, based on their stories and characters that they have written, that they would think and behave differently. All I was trying to do was enter into a debate and argument based on that statement.

 

 

 

What debate dude? xD

 

I said "it was a little surprising to me cause" and I got like 4 people jumping on me for it, making hyperbolized responses like "DO U THINK CHRISTIAN BALE KILLS PEOPLE?"

 

This is a stupid meaningless internet "debate" where people want to prove their right for absolutely no reason at all, made especially annoying by the fact it's repeatedly been stepped over that I state "Avellone has gone on record saying he agrees with Ulysses' philosophies on several things" as the claim "you're assuming he agrees with all characters he writes" when it's like wtf no, I'm a broken record here that's really sick of being strawman'ed for the sake of a meaningless "debate" that accomplishes nothing at all.

 

I think I'm done here. All I was doing was talking to you about stuff. The rest of this....whatever.

[Starthief]

Look, I'm all for treating your fellow man good and acceptance and all that, but there comes a time when you need to stop being so thin-skinned and accept that not everyone is going to agree with you, or your beliefs or lifestyle, and you will just have to deal with it and stop whining and stamping your feet, trying to get your way.

I don't agree with GamerGaters and bigots, and they're just going to have to stop being so thin-skinned and accept that some people are willing to stand up for themselves when their identity is mocked.  And you'll just have to deal with it and stop whining and stamping your feet, trying to get your way.

[Longknife]

I like to imagine J.E. Sawyer's political opinions to be much like a warm blanket on a cold winter day.

 

 

I will say I wonder if Sawyer has some..."hang up" with religion (dunno what else to call it or what word is appropriate there as hang up feels weird too) seeing as he made Honest Hearts and religion heavily tied into that and the main plot of Pillars also touches on religion. (obviously not saying more on that matter cuz spoilers)

 

That's one implication that seems clear as day, if we're to assume the main plot of Pillars is much in thanks to him. But again, there we can only speculate.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Longknife

[Mungri]

I want Josh Sawyer deep inside me.

 

I dream of it.

[evensong]

Feargus Urquhart's like the diary of Marcus Aurelius: stoic and sensible, yet kind and generous.

[Kimuji]

I want Josh Sawyer deep inside me.

 

I dream of it.

Actually I think you want his cat.

[metsu]

 

A big problem right now is this societal shift of not taking personal accountability or responsibility for anything, which leads to finger pointing and excuses like limericks such as this causing "psychological trauma"

 

When did people become so soft?

 

 

I will admit I find it a tad odd and surprising to see that Obsidian chose to censor the limerick, seeing as how this is the company that produced Caesar's Legion and Durance. Both of them preach about how conflict or "fires" can make you stronger while burning away the weak and unworthy. With stories like that, you think they'd have a mentality of how the world is harsh and you need to be willing to face that some people can and will offend you, but you need to be able to carry on.

 

  But again I'm a realist and I'm sure this was a decision made (decision to even ask Firedorn) moreso in the interest of marketing. Companies are notorious for being a place for ideologies to die.

 

wat

[Longknife]

 

 

A big problem right now is this societal shift of not taking personal accountability or responsibility for anything, which leads to finger pointing and excuses like limericks such as this causing "psychological trauma"

 

When did people become so soft?

 

 

I will admit I find it a tad odd and surprising to see that Obsidian chose to censor the limerick, seeing as how this is the company that produced Caesar's Legion and Durance. Both of them preach about how conflict or "fires" can make you stronger while burning away the weak and unworthy. With stories like that, you think they'd have a mentality of how the world is harsh and you need to be willing to face that some people can and will offend you, but you need to be able to carry on.

 

  But again I'm a realist and I'm sure this was a decision made (decision to even ask Firedorn) moreso in the interest of marketing. Companies are notorious for being a place for ideologies to die.

 

wat

 

 

 

Here we go again guise. The last two pages wasn't enough obviously.

[evensong]

Why do you hate God, Longknife?

[Longknife]

Why do you hate God, Longknife?

 

I was born with one leg alongside allergies to morphine and latex to accompany me on the surgeries I would need. I have every right to hate that prick.

 

 

Fun Fact: I've "died" before, as in my heart stopped long enough when they discovered the morphine allergy for them to start announcing me dead, only for it to start back up at the same moment.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Longknife

[Dualazi]

I don't think guys can quite understand just how offensive and demeaning it was for women scientists to have some di&**&*head representing the ESA wearing an  sexist shirt. Here's the thing guys - people in power or privilege do not get to decide if they are sexist or rascist, it's for their victims to decide.

Anything else is incredibly stupid... Picture a bunch of dumbass guys sitting around making sexist jokes - and then telling people who are upset that they don't feel a thing. Level of intellectual dishonesty and stupidy by the gamergate crowd is crazy.

Their 'victims' don't get to decide anything. Any claim of persecution has to be backed up by facts and evidence, not random assertions of others. Also, it might shock you to find out that even people not associated with the Gamergate boogeyman find the "power+privilege" lie to be absolutely laughable. 

 

 

[sparklecat]

 

 

I think a large part of the issue is that by its very nature "phychological trauma" is subjective at best; I'm waiting for someone to provide me with an actual method to measure the "phychological trauma" that can be applied across the board to all groups, both those favored by the SJWs as well as those that aren't.

So rather like with physical pain, then?

 

 

Not really because as subjective as those "1-10 pain scale charts" are, physical pain can be measured, verified and more importantly denotes an underlying condition.   

 

 

I'm gonna guess you're not a doctor.

 

[sparklecat]

 

 

Not really because as subjective as those "1-10 pain scale charts" are, physical pain can be measured, verified and more importantly denotes an underlying condition.    

Those charts actually exist because the pain cannot be measured, or verified. It's all subjective--what you say is an 8 might be a 5 to somebody else, etc. There is no "pain unit", no discreet measuring system. There is no way to objectively quantify pain.

 

 

Yep.  This is, incidentally, a large part of why people with chronic pain issues have such a hard time getting the regular medication they need without meeting with suspicion that they're junkies or the like.  It's a pretty serious problem that leaves many people suffering needlessly when their doctors won't believe them on what they're experiencing.

[mrmonocle]

WILL JOSH SAWYER MARRY ME?

 

don't take as a personal assault, are a gay or a feminazi?

[sparklecat]

 

 

 

I think a large part of the issue is that by its very nature "phychological trauma" is subjective at best; I'm waiting for someone to provide me with an actual method to measure the "phychological trauma" that can be applied across the board to all groups, both those favored by the SJWs as well as those that aren't.

So rather like with physical pain, then?

 

 

Not really because as subjective as those "1-10 pain scale charts" are, physical pain may can be it can be measured, verified and more importantly denotes an underlying condition.

 

 

There .... now let's talk about the supposed "phychological trauma" instead.

 

 

What about it?

 

[Katarack21]

 

 

 

Not really because as subjective as those "1-10 pain scale charts" are, physical pain can be measured, verified and more importantly denotes an underlying condition.    

Those charts actually exist because the pain cannot be measured, or verified. It's all subjective--what you say is an 8 might be a 5 to somebody else, etc. There is no "pain unit", no discreet measuring system. There is no way to objectively quantify pain.

 

 

Yep.  This is, incidentally, a large part of why people with chronic pain issues have such a hard time getting the regular medication they need without meeting with suspicion that they're junkies or the like.  It's a pretty serious problem that leaves many people suffering needlessly when their doctors won't believe them on what they're experiencing.

 

 

This is true. My fiance has Ehlers-Danlos syndrome; her main symptoms, beside dislocating joints and such, is simply severe chronic joint pain. I have a badly healed boxers fracture on my right hand and chronic arthritis in all of those knuckles, along with migraines. Both of us have real problems getting the pain medication we need because of this very issue.

[Crusty]

I have a lot to say about SJWs and not much of it is nice, but honestly I think this topic is done and dusted in terms of discussion. We already have a decent timeline of it all and beyond rehashing the same points, I'm not sure what else is there to be said. IMO, once Firedorn started posting and clarified things, that's really where discussion should end, at least in the PoE section.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Crusty

[sparklecat]

 

 

 

 

Not really because as subjective as those "1-10 pain scale charts" are, physical pain can be measured, verified and more importantly denotes an underlying condition.    

Those charts actually exist because the pain cannot be measured, or verified. It's all subjective--what you say is an 8 might be a 5 to somebody else, etc. There is no "pain unit", no discreet measuring system. There is no way to objectively quantify pain.

 

 

Yep.  This is, incidentally, a large part of why people with chronic pain issues have such a hard time getting the regular medication they need without meeting with suspicion that they're junkies or the like.  It's a pretty serious problem that leaves many people suffering needlessly when their doctors won't believe them on what they're experiencing.

 

 

This is true. My fiance has Ehlers-Danlos syndrome; her main symptoms, beside dislocating joints and such, is simply severe chronic joint pain. I have a badly healed boxers fracture on my right hand and chronic arthritis in all of those knuckles, along with migraines. Both of us have real problems getting the pain medication we need because of this very issue.

 

Because obviously you guys suffering from severe pain your whole life is just the price one has to pay to keep those dirty drug-seekers from getting their hands on medication they don't deserve!

[Mungri]

I just had to fill in such a 1-8 chart for my mental heath. According to my answers I need frigging cocaine to fix me. Gibe.

 

Appointment with a shrink next week.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Mungri

[Volourn]

"I don't think guys can quite understand just how offensive and demeaning it was for women scientists to have some di&**&*head representing the ESA wearing an  sexist shirt."

 

Tell that to the woman who made the shirt in the first palce than gave it to her friend. Stop crying like a little boy. We don't need to hear more womansplaining about how evil men are.We get it already.

 

\We also know all men are monsters, rapists,s exist, abusers, and a host of other nasty things. It's all good.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Volourn

[Jasta11]

I have a lot to say about SJWs and not much of it is nice, but honestly I think this topic is done and dusted in terms of discussion. We already have a decent timeline of it all and beyond rehashing the same points, I'm not sure what else is there to be said. IMO, once Firedorn started posting and clarified things, that's really where discussion should end, at least in the PoE section.

 

I still find it amusingly ironic that some people complain about SJWs who stir up controversy for no reason... and then make posts stirring up controversy after Firedorn himself has shown that this story is behind him. No one looks better than the other here I find.

[Katarack21]

Both sides are full of strawmen, passionate hyperbole, and gleeful trolls. I honestly don't care about the entire argument.

I go through life treating everybody with as much empathy as I can and as fairly as I can, more or less distancing myself equally from everybody. My experiences have taught me that no one group is more likely to be good or bad than any other; everybody is equally likely to hurt you for their own benefit. You learn who they are, and then decide if they fit with how you want your life to be. There's really no shortcut.

Everybody else can scream however loud they like about this or that. It's meaningless.

[Mungri]

TrolololololololllolllololololololorT

[Prime-Mover]

I have a lot to say about SJWs and not much of it is nice, but honestly I think this topic is done and dusted in terms of discussion. We already have a decent timeline of it all and beyond rehashing the same points, I'm not sure what else is there to be said. IMO, once Firedorn started posting and clarified things, that's really where discussion should end, at least in the PoE section.

 

I would settle for a mere definition at this point, from some of those who position themselves with regards to them.

[metsu]

 

 

 

A big problem right now is this societal shift of not taking personal accountability or responsibility for anything, which leads to finger pointing and excuses like limericks such as this causing "psychological trauma"

 

When did people become so soft?

 

 

I will admit I find it a tad odd and surprising to see that Obsidian chose to censor the limerick, seeing as how this is the company that produced Caesar's Legion and Durance. Both of them preach about how conflict or "fires" can make you stronger while burning away the weak and unworthy. With stories like that, you think they'd have a mentality of how the world is harsh and you need to be willing to face that some people can and will offend you, but you need to be able to carry on.

 

  But again I'm a realist and I'm sure this was a decision made (decision to even ask Firedorn) moreso in the interest of marketing. Companies are notorious for being a place for ideologies to die.

 

wat

 

 

 

Here we go again guise. The last two pages wasn't enough obviously.

 

I'm just a little surprised at the logical leap you made. Apparently if someone writes about homicidal wasteland slavers, it must follow that they're sympathetic to homicidal wasteland slavers and ascribe to their worldview.

 

But you went one step further and extrapolated that to mean Obsidian would deal with game criticism the same way that homicidal wasteland slavers would deal with it.

 

I mean come on. You're obviously a fan of New Vegas. I remember watching a YouTube video Josh put up about research. When he was working on Honest Hearts, he hit the gun range hardcore and started immersing himself in Mormon literature despite being a stone cold atheist. By the end, his stances on firearms and faith hadn't changed, but it helped him write religious, gun-wielding characters that felt like real people instead of parodies, at least to the best of his ability.

 

By your logic though. . .