Seems like XP balance is out of whack

[AncientToaster]

I've been hearing people getting to the level cap way before the game is over. I'm starting to see why, when I'm level 7 already barely into Act II.

 

I think a patch needs to tone down the XP gains from quests, because there is nothing worse than playing an RPG and not getting rewarded for quests you complete later in the game.

[TrueMenace]

Yeeup. I stopped playing Pillars 3 days after release because Reckless Assault is still bugged for my Rogue and Hard is too easy and XP gain is WAY TOO HIGH. So yea, waiting for patch 1.04 to address this. 

[Sugam]

If so, that I would like too, except it would kill solo players unless they bump the exp modifier higher. I suspect though those players did everything there can be, all side Quests and what not. It happens in other games too like BG.

[Ichthyic]

the experience mod for solo is 50%.  that's pretty significant.

 

[Tigranes]

I'd really love an XP reduction mod, e.g. 75%. I also think the bonus for solo is way too high, disincentivising me from it (although this was the same in IE games where you'd gobble up all that quest XP and become a demigod while still in Athkatla or whatnot).

 

[Caerdon]

How, exactly, does XP get awared in this game? Isn't it just divided among party members like in BG? I haven't paid much attention to XP, but when my party gets awarded 600 XP, it looks like each individual party member receives around 100 XP.

[sparklecat]

Yep, xp on sidequests/tasks/etc is way too high; you end up outlevelling things by quite a bit unless you skip large chunks of the game.  Neither missing half the game nor removing most of the challenge from it is fun.

[demeisen]

Yep, xp on sidequests/tasks/etc is way too high; you end up outlevelling things by quite a bit unless you skip large chunks of the game.  Neither missing half the game nor removing most of the challenge from it is fun.

 

Agreed.  I think they could fix it by reducing the side-quest experience.  Leave some, so there are reasons to do the side quests over and above the story itself, but tune it so they makes you a little more powerful and better equipped, rather than radically overpowered.  That, and make tanks not so damn invulnerable, since that leads to a single tactic that works for 95% of the fights ("wade tank in, he can't be hurt anyway, and plink everything from range").

 

There's a lot of good stuff here.  I believe some tuning could improve it and it'd be awesome.  The system itself is good, and can be improved even more in the future with new abilities and spells and better monster AI.

[ComplyOrDie]

 

Yep, xp on sidequests/tasks/etc is way too high; you end up outlevelling things by quite a bit unless you skip large chunks of the game.  Neither missing half the game nor removing most of the challenge from it is fun.

 

Agreed.  I think they could fix it by reducing the side-quest experience.  Leave some, so there are reasons to do the side quests over and above the story itself, but tune it so they makes you a little more powerful and better equipped, rather than radically overpowered.  That, and make tanks not so damn invulnerable, since that leads to a single tactic that works for 95% of the fights ("wade tank in, he can't be hurt anyway, and plink everything from range").

 

There's a lot of good stuff here.  I believe some tuning could improve it and it'd be awesome.  The system itself is good, and can be improved even more in the future with new abilities and spells and better monster AI.

 

 

That's the frustrating thing, ok there are player attributes issues etcetera, but with a few tweaks to the enemy AI, experience gain, and enemy stats, combat could be very good throughout the game in my opinion.

[Atheosis]

It's fine.  The nitpicking going on is getting rather obnoxious.  Besides, I'm sure a mod will come out that will take care of this "issue" for people.

Edited April 5, 2015 by Atheosis

[AncientToaster]

It's fine.  The nitpicking going on is getting rather obnoxious.  Besides, I'm sure a mod will come out that will take care of this "issue" for people.

 

Except it is a real issue. You're either going to be purposefully avoiding sidequests so you don't reach the cap before Act III, or getting to level 12 by Midway into Act II and playing the game for no real reason other than pushing the story along.

 

We play RPG's for Story and progression. When one halts the game becomes very dull. It would be equally as bad if the game was nothing but combat for the last 1/3rd of the game and the story ceased to exist. 

[horus168]

I completed the game without hitting the level cap.

 

I did all the companion quests, finished the endless paths of lua, and think I got pretty much all of the side-quests.

 

I don't see a progression problem at all, other than the old-school CRPG player in me pines after getting xp for killing enemies.

[View619]

I completed the game without hitting the level cap.

 

I did all the companion quests, finished the endless paths of lua, and think I got pretty much all of the side-quests.

 

I don't see a progression problem at all, other than the old-school CRPG player in me pines after getting xp for killing enemies.

 

What was your final level and what difficulty?

[Ohioastro]

There is a level cap.  Slashing exp would force completionist runs to reach the level cap, strongly handicapping players who don't do everything.  There are so many things that impact difficulty that this seems low on the list.  If you want more challenge, skip the side quests; if you don't, complete everything.  Pretty much the same as BG, no?

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ohioastro

[endruwiggin]

Remove XP from bestiary. Here, I said it

 

EDIT: act II here, level 9, full party

Edited April 5, 2015 by endruwiggin

[NoQuitt]

I completed the game without hitting the level cap.

 

I did all the companion quests, finished the endless paths of lua, and think I got pretty much all of the side-quests.

 

I don't see a progression problem at all, other than the old-school CRPG player in me pines after getting xp for killing enemies.

 

Did you do bounties? Perhaps bounties are what's putting people over the top. 

[PIP-Clownboy]

Trap/Lock xp is dumb. Just like in IE games where people solo farmed locks for free levels. It should not exist.

Edited April 5, 2015 by PIP-Clownboy

[demeisen]

I don't see a progression problem at all, other than the old-school CRPG player in me pines after getting xp for killing enemies.

 

The problem for me is that I find some foreboding cave hidden behind a boulder, and I want to feel like going in there will be dangerous.  Like I should proceed with extreme caution.  It's a bit of a let down to get in there just destroy everything with no real thought to good tactics and strategy, no need to use consumables, etc.  I'd rather have skin-of-my-teeth battles and "oh-#*(!" moments in places like that.

 

I like the game a lot, don't get me wrong, and I'm happy I backed it and will back anything else they make.  Still, I do think it's a little bit let down by the lack of difficulty.  On the other hand, there are some genuinely hard fights now and then, and they are fun!  Like, a seriously good time, which is why I'm optimistic for the future of this franchise.  Not every fight has to be a battle to end all battles, mind you.  But there's a happy medium to be found.

 

I know it's hard for developers these days.  So many players now have grown up on ultra-simplified hand-holdy games and want to feel "godlike" by wrecking everything in sight, rather than feel the nervous dread of poking into dangerous places and the struggle to survive what can just barely be survived.

[Atheosis]

 

It's fine.  The nitpicking going on is getting rather obnoxious.  Besides, I'm sure a mod will come out that will take care of this "issue" for people.

 

Except it is a real issue. You're either going to be purposefully avoiding sidequests so you don't reach the cap before Act III, or getting to level 12 by Midway into Act II and playing the game for no real reason other than pushing the story along.

 

We play RPG's for Story and progression. When one halts the game becomes very dull. It would be equally as bad if the game was nothing but combat for the last 1/3rd of the game and the story ceased to exist. 

 

 

I've been playing at my own pace doing side quests and tasks, but I'm not actively trying to do everything.  I just hit level 10 a ways through act 3.  So basically if you are a true completionist you will hit the cap well before the end, and otherwise you probably won't or you will only hit it very close to the end.  It's not an issue for me or many others.  It's an issue for completionists only, and if they are rational about it it shouldn't be an issue for them either, as they are essentially grinding xp in the way they are playing.  Wanting the cap to only be reachable via doing every single thing in the game is a lame notion if you ask me.  In the end this is something that should be left to a mod, because I and many others are not interested in reduced xp rewards in vanilla.  It's fine as is.

[Grand_Commander13]

Yeah, too much XP is locked up in side quests; I just saw someone complain that they can't beat the boss at level seven. I wonder how they were able to get there that quickly, but obviously they could. It seems a bit mean for the game to let you get that far only to say "whoops, looks like you'll be needing to reload (we hope you didn't overwrite that save!) and get a few more levels."

[Odd Hermit]

They weren't intending/assuming players would do all side-content, or probably even most it. They were also likely assuming you'd take companions as they come, which would quickly get you up to a 5 person party.

 

Solo XP isn't too high for a genuinely solo attempt, or for a 2-3 man party.

 

However, you can "farm" the easy stuff while using a small party, and then grab the rest of your party at higher levels. It's tough, if not impossible, to balance this in a way that can please all players. Some people will just do more content than others and get higher level faster. But we definitely don't want something like the IWDII system where you were penalized on XP gains for being higher level which led to weird tactics like "muling".

 

The best thing to do if you want more challenge is probably play "as intended" on hard, or buy hires ASAP and play with a full party on PotD if you want to do a bunch of side-content.

[Atheosis]

Yeah, too much XP is locked up in side quests; I just saw someone complain that they can't beat the boss at level seven. I wonder how they were able to get there that quickly, but obviously they could. It seems a bit mean for the game to let you get that far only to say "whoops, looks like you'll be needing to reload (we hope you didn't overwrite that save!) and get a few more levels."

 

That's exactly how the old IE games were made.  You could run through the main questline and do nothing else and get there much sooner and be faced with a much nastier final battle.  It's assumed that players will do at least some side quests in games like this.

[Odd Hermit]

 

Yeah, too much XP is locked up in side quests; I just saw someone complain that they can't beat the boss at level seven. I wonder how they were able to get there that quickly, but obviously they could. It seems a bit mean for the game to let you get that far only to say "whoops, looks like you'll be needing to reload (we hope you didn't overwrite that save!) and get a few more levels."

 

That's exactly how the old IE games were made.  You could run through the main questline and do nothing else and get there much sooner and be faced with a much nastier final battle.  It's assumed that players will do at least some side quests in games like this.

 

 

IWD1 was pretty linear and enemies were generally around your level ... or in high enough numbers to pose a threat.

 

BGII was much more open...like PoE. Hard to pair character progression with open world and not have it lead to out-leveling content for some players.

[sparklecat]

They weren't intending/assuming players would do all side-content, or probably even most it.

They should certainly be assuming that people will be doing the majority of the sidequests, even if they skip, say, the bounties.

[Zanos]

I don't really have a problem with the XP gain, but I think the level cap is a bit too low. I suppose it would take a lot of resources to extend the class progression for every class, though.