Audra Dragon Petition

[Benedictous]

Well after my second party was again annihilated by this beast and yet again beating it through cheese tactics I was hoping other people would sign on to try and get fixed some things in the encounter that bother me and get this fight out of the 'Cheese it or leave it" category.

 

1.  The hit box.  Where exactly is the Audra dragon's hit box for spells/traps? Can it be made actually visible?

 

2. Bugs.  Audra dragon can be made perma proned, can stop attacking all-together, can walk away from tanks into a corner and stand there (obviously afraid of my awesome powers), and can sit in an AoE on the ground and not get hit/crit/grazed/missed. These are the ones I know of there may be more

 

3. The charm adds. I hate charm in this game because there seems to be no amount of Will that blocks it, the Mental Fortress talent does nothing, but was 4 charm spamming adds really necessary for the dragon?

 

4. Stomp/breath range reduction.  Dragon farts and my ranged characters die. Dragon breath cone seems to be 180 degrees and a mile long. Tail swipe hits harder than her bite

 

Those are the things that I feel could be adjusted to at least make this fight more manageable. I really hate having to use cheesy scroll/trap/bug techniques to beat a boss. I'm not saying it should be hard but it should be done with proper tactics and planning, rather than spamming 100  priest traps under her.

[quechn1tlan]

What I don't like about that dragon is that they pulled a Final Fantasy and included a boss that stands outside of the game's balance. Nothing you face, especially at about lvl 9 when you usually get to the dragon comes close to it. Heck, the final fight is immensely easier. This is wrong. You want to give a challenge - make it a natural progression of challenge and not just throw in a single encounter that comes out of nowhere, hits you over the head and calls into question every build choice you've made throughout the game. Also, making players return to the dragon, later after spending three hours, trying to win an unwinnable fight only to realize that it's quite impossible with a lvl 9 party with lvl-appropriate gear, sours the entire playthrough.

 

On top of inflated stats, the fight IS unfair with unavoidable instawipes if the RNG gods are not on your side that day, plus, just as stated above the model is super-nebulous. So your best option is to cheese the thing by whichever method you find to your liking even when you have that leveled-up group.(By the way what is this about priest traps? I've heard it multiple times but never in detail. There's one priest trap that does damage IIRC, and you can place like 4 or 5 of them per rest, no?)

 

So, yeah, that fight should really get looked at. It's poorly designed in a multitude of ways.

Edited April 5, 2015 by quechn1tlan

[Shdy314]

Oh brother the fights really not that hard.

[Blovski]

Eh, I like having the stupid tough boss at the end of the Endless Paths. The breath attack probably does too much damage given that you've not really got any conceivable way of buffing against it (cf the Shadow Dragon and Firkraag fights in BG 2).

[Benedictous]

Oh brother the fights really not that hard.

 

Well of course it isn't hard, you use trap abuse or a petrify scroll, or pre-nerf you slickened her. However I am talking about if you actually want to fight her.

[Benedictous]

On top of inflated stats, the fight IS unfair with unavoidable instawipes if the RNG gods are not on your side that day, plus, just as stated above the model is super-nebulous. So your best option is to cheese the thing by whichever method you find to your liking even when you have that leveled-up group.(By the way what is this about priest traps? I've heard it multiple times but never in detail. There's one priest trap that does damage IIRC, and you can place like 4 or 5 of them per rest, no?)

 

 

Warding Seal is what most people cast with multiple priests under her feet, then they initate combat.

[gkathellar]

What I don't like about that dragon is that they pulled a Final Fantasy and included a boss that stands outside of the game's balance. Nothing you face, especially at about lvl 9 when you usually get to the dragon comes close to it. Heck, the final fight is immensely easier. This is wrong. You want to give a challenge - make it a natural progression of challenge and not just throw in a single encounter that comes out of nowhere, hits you over the head and calls into question every build choice you've made throughout the game. Also, making players return to the dragon, later after spending three hours, trying to win an unwinnable fight only to realize that it's quite impossible with a lvl 9 party with lvl-appropriate gear, sours the entire playthrough.

 

The Endless Paths are a Watcher's Keep/Durlag's Tower successor, and those had bosses stronger than the final bosses of their respective games. Optional bonus dungeon, super boss, etc. This is not some unique JRPG thing.

 

I agree with other complaints, though. Demogorgon kicked the crap out of you by being a beast with a bunch of strong demons helping him out. Adra Dragon kicks the crap out of you by ... I dunno, your AoEs apparently being in the wrong place.

[Benedictous]

 

I agree with other complaints, though. Demogorgon kicked the crap out of you by being a beast with a bunch of strong demons helping him out. Adra Dragon kicks the crap out of you by ... I dunno, your AoEs apparently being in the wrong place.

 

 

They aren't even hitting her is my complaint.  Her real hit box is very small and hard to find

[Lasci]

I think the real hit box is just after her neck or "collarbone."

 

I do agree that the Adra Dragon seems unnaturally difficult versus anything but cheese, but I haven't given it much effort.

 

What kind of attack is her breath weapon? Honestly, other than avoiding getting charmed, that's gotta be the biggest issue people have with her.

[Rhaeg]

For me personally it's a very frustrating battle, more than anything I've ever tried in a cRPG. The main reason is there is no smart way to do this reliably without resorting to cheesy tactics. I've been trying this on hard mode but am not making much progress at all for the past 2 days. What I dislike most is that there is no way to effectively tank the dragon, not even with an über tank with the best potions and a priest watching his health constantly. There seem to be two main problems here: as the OP said, there is no effective way to guard against charm in this game: even the spells that are supposed to work against it seem completely, utterly useless. Then the tank also gets stunned frequently, making it impossible to reliably perform any action with him. The second problem with tanking is that there is no aggro mechanism or there does not seem to be one. The dragon sometimes just leaves the tank alone, turns around and fries or smashes some other party members that are far from engagement range. Why? Clueless, which makes it seem random, which makes it seems like the player has no control over this battle.

 

Then there's the other stuff OP mentions, like hit box problems and a completely overpowered breath attack. A challenge is nice, but this battle is only challenging because the dragon has some ridiculously damaging attacks, cannot be tanked reliably and has adds with charm skills that cannot be defended against even when using the exact spells that are meant to counter the charms specifically.

 

Hard mode was challenging for me at the start of the game but then quickly became almost too easy... and then you encounter something like this which seems completely over the top and I honestly cannot mention anything fun about it. So for me personally it's a very disappointing end to the Endless Paths dungeon.

[Noer]

im reading this ...

maybe guys try killing kangaax in bg 2 without cheese (demi-lich immune to all but +5 weapons which hits him for 1-2dmg and he has life regen and he cast higest level spells in 0.1 sec) well... some fights are meant to cheese i guess

[ICN]

I personally like this fight. It's a optional, challenging encounter for high level players that encourages different tactics to those used in the rest of the game. Since tanking is mostly useless, focus on disabling spells instead. Such as Eyes of the Adragon; If that even graves her, you win.

[quechn1tlan]

 

What I don't like about that dragon is that they pulled a Final Fantasy and included a boss that stands outside of the game's balance. Nothing you face, especially at about lvl 9 when you usually get to the dragon comes close to it. Heck, the final fight is immensely easier. This is wrong. You want to give a challenge - make it a natural progression of challenge and not just throw in a single encounter that comes out of nowhere, hits you over the head and calls into question every build choice you've made throughout the game. Also, making players return to the dragon, later after spending three hours, trying to win an unwinnable fight only to realize that it's quite impossible with a lvl 9 party with lvl-appropriate gear, sours the entire playthrough.

 

The Endless Paths are a Watcher's Keep/Durlag's Tower successor, and those had bosses stronger than the final bosses of their respective games. Optional bonus dungeon, super boss, etc. This is not some unique JRPG thing.

 

 

Only in BG1/2 those were simply difficult encounters that I beat by preparation and several tries. You know, run in, get wiped, adjust tactics, try again. Bosses there are not unbeatable when you get to them. If you could do those dungeons - chances are you're alright with their bosses. And that, apart from the general lack of rules or clarity, is what really ruins the Dragon fight.

[Earthshocker]

Finally reached the adra dragon today. Tried it a few times with different tactics. Might as well have been slamming my head against a concrete wall . Unfortunately, it doesn't feel as the fun/challenging kind of difficulty. Even with minor/mild cheese I didn't make any progress. The damage output is just way to ridiculous. If this thing so much as sneezes over half of my party rolls over, even if I move them beyond their shooting distance. I didn't even get around to really try damaging it. Then there the adds. Xaurips are fine, they're pretty much a non-issue at higher levels and they do add some flavor. But adragons?!? Seriously? Spell casters using the currently incredibly broken charm spells, disabling spells for which no real defence exist? Ultimately, this fight currently feels as if it'll be won with a single failed save. And lots of cheese. And save scumming. And more cheese. I am in no way whatsever opposed to the concept of a superboss. In fact, I love the adradragon and in this game you should and only barely be able to conceive of the notion that you might defeat it (it does seem a fitting enemy for a sequel however ). But not because it sneezes and everybody dies. It's only just short of: 'rocks fall, everybody dies'.

 

Now that my rant is over; the main issue I have with this battle is the boss' ridiculous damage output. Both the breath attack and the wing slam not only deal a ridiculous amount of damage, easily one-shotting max level characters, but also have such a large radius that evading it is practically impossible. Adding some way to migitate the damage, wether a spell or equipment, could make this battle more fun without changing the spirit of the fight.

[tnc]

Here's a tip you need to both buff your casters' accuracy and debuff the dragon's defenses. For example eldritch aim on your wizard and debuff fortitude (sickened&weakened for a total of -30 fortitude) on the dragon cast gaze of adragan and he's paralyzed. For debuffs Cipher has a single target level 3 debuff that decreases all defenses (fortitude, will, reflex) by 20. In fact i think all casters have some sort of debuff to those stats... You can further increase your accuracy if it doesn't work, there are so many spells that increase it, especially on priest. You can get it to enormous levels like 100+ By the way some disable abilities such as the ones fighter and monks have also attack fortitude. To be honest i don't understand people that use traps and cheese it.

[Lasci]

If you can hit the dragon with Gaze of Adragan, it should be dead or you have much larger problems to tackle.

[Rhaeg]

Here's a tip you need to both buff your casters' accuracy and debuff the dragon's defenses. For example eldritch aim on your wizard and debuff fortitude (sickened&weakened for a total of -30 fortitude) on the dragon cast gaze of adragan and he's paralyzed. For debuffs Cipher has a single target level 3 debuff that decreases all defenses (fortitude, will, reflex) by 20. In fact i think all casters have some sort of debuff to those stats... You can further increase your accuracy if it doesn't work, there are so many spells that increase it, especially on priest. You can get it to enormous levels like 100+ By the way some disable abilities such as the ones fighter and monks have also attack fortitude. To be honest i don't understand people that use traps and cheese it.

 

Cheers, that helped a lot! With the Eldritch Aim potion Gaze of Adragan finally had a decent chance of hitting the dragon, and once he was stunned for over half a minute it was over ofc.

[Ichthyic]

if the dragon can be paralyzed... can't you just buy some scrolls of paralyze from your chapel in the keep and just spam those?

does the level 2 fetid caress spell work?

if either is the case, this fight simply cannot be that hard.

 

[Rhaeg]

I haven't checked to be certain, but I think paralysis spell has a much shorter duration than Gaze of Adragan. Aloth was able to stun the dragon for more than half a minute, which is an insane amount of time and more than enough to kill the beast.

[CheryChocie]

I beat the Dragon earlier today legit, I engaged everything fairly at the same time, I didn't cheese the boss with 38945943 priest traps and I didn't petrify her once. Obviously doing any of those things will make the fight much easier but it can be done; it was on Path of the Damned difficulty too.

 

I was running Fighter, Chanter, Cipher, Wizard, Priest, Barbarian. 

 

Start by summoning as much cannon fodder as you can from the various figurines you should have by this point and use them to distract the Dragon while you bumrush the **** out of the 4 Adragons at the back. Mind Plague is exceptionally good at dealing with them, particularly if you target the Adragon to the Southeast as this has the added advantage of distracting the Xaurips that run in. 

 

Once the Adragons are dead, buff the living bejesus out of your tank(s) and send them to separate sides of the dragon along with any summons you have left. I also had a Circle of Death trap waiting for the Xaurips and that did a great job of killing them off.

 

After that, I buffed the accuracy of my party as much as I could and tried to land a blind on the Dragon. I managed to get a crit blind for 60 seconds which made her much easier to hit. After that, I managed to crit a Paralysis scroll on her for 30 seconds at which point I dumped 4 Malignant Clouds on her and they ate away at her health surprisingly quickly. my primary tank dropped low at one point but it's so easy with a Priest to keep a tank alive.

 

I will say that Wing Slam or Wing Blast, whatever it's called is a dumb move but meh, you can outrange it. Tail Whip hit range is also a bit dumb.

[PermTrouble]

I think the real hit box is just after her neck or "collarbone."

 

I do agree that the Adra Dragon seems unnaturally difficult versus anything but cheese, but I haven't given it much effort.

 

What kind of attack is her breath weapon? Honestly, other than avoiding getting charmed, that's gotta be the biggest issue people have with her.

Thinking corrode