No immunities

[View619]

Well if this makes somebody happy, during my bounty missions i have found out that prone effect does not work at all. There were whole group of humans apparently immune to prone from all my Wizard spells. 

 

However Fighter knockdown worked and applied prone effect, so i could be just part of planned nerf of Wizard spells (slicken, Call to slumber) from 1.03 patch.

 

I think Knockdown targets fortitude, it's possible that the wizard spells were targeting another defense or just missing.

[Ondb]

 

Well if this makes somebody happy, during my bounty missions i have found out that prone effect does not work at all. There were whole group of humans apparently immune to prone from all my Wizard spells. 

 

However Fighter knockdown worked and applied prone effect, so i could be just part of planned nerf of Wizard spells (slicken, Call to slumber) from 1.03 patch.

 

I think Knockdown targets fortitude, it's possible that the wizard spells were targeting another defense or just missing.

 

 

It could be bug....I went to City and attacked ordinary citizen.

 

1/ Cast Call to slumber (1 hit, 6 critical hits)

2/ The animation of going to prone stance and then going out of prone effect.

3/ Checked conditions: nobody has prone effect applied....

 

Maybe the prone effect now only works if its targeting Fortitude. Slicken is reflex and Call to slumber is will.

 

Could somebody try the same test?

Just go Copperlane (Defiance Bay), attack neutral PC and cast those spells....

[Ondb]

 

 

Well if this makes somebody happy, during my bounty missions i have found out that prone effect does not work at all. There were whole group of humans apparently immune to prone from all my Wizard spells. 

 

However Fighter knockdown worked and applied prone effect, so i could be just part of planned nerf of Wizard spells (slicken, Call to slumber) from 1.03 patch.

 

I think Knockdown targets fortitude, it's possible that the wizard spells were targeting another defense or just missing.

 

 

It could be bug....I went to City and attacked ordinary citizen.

 

1/ Cast Call to slumber (1 hit, 6 critical hits)

2/ The animation of going to prone stance and then going out of prone effect.

3/ Checked conditions: nobody has prone effect applied....

 

Maybe the prone effect now only works if its targeting Fortitude. Slicken is reflex and Call to slumber is will.

 

Could somebody try the same test?

Just go Copperlane (Defiance Bay), attack neutral PC and cast those spells....

 

 

I have confirmed its bug related to item. There item in game which is supposed to apply prone reducing time on yourself...

Instead:

1/ When put on my Wizard, my spell are now applying 0.0 second prone effects on enemies.

2/ Removing the item will not fix now broken slicken, call to slumber spells.

3/ So right now i have Wizard and his prone effect spells are not working at all.

 

I have to wonder how broken the game must be internally to something like this happen....I mean you just need to equip this item once and then it will broke your character spell-casting???

 

Removing item does not work, reloading game does not work......

[View619]

 

 

 

Well if this makes somebody happy, during my bounty missions i have found out that prone effect does not work at all. There were whole group of humans apparently immune to prone from all my Wizard spells. 

 

However Fighter knockdown worked and applied prone effect, so i could be just part of planned nerf of Wizard spells (slicken, Call to slumber) from 1.03 patch.

 

I think Knockdown targets fortitude, it's possible that the wizard spells were targeting another defense or just missing.

 

 

It could be bug....I went to City and attacked ordinary citizen.

 

1/ Cast Call to slumber (1 hit, 6 critical hits)

2/ The animation of going to prone stance and then going out of prone effect.

3/ Checked conditions: nobody has prone effect applied....

 

Maybe the prone effect now only works if its targeting Fortitude. Slicken is reflex and Call to slumber is will.

 

Could somebody try the same test?

Just go Copperlane (Defiance Bay), attack neutral PC and cast those spells....

 

 

I have confirmed its bug related to item. There item in game which is supposed to apply prone reducing time on yourself...

Instead:

1/ When put on my Wizard, my spell are now applying 0.0 second prone effects on enemies.

2/ Removing the item will not fix now broken slicken, call to slumber spells.

3/ So right now i have Wizard and his prone effect spells are not working at all.

 

I have to wonder how broken the game must be internally to something like this happen....I mean you just need to equip this item once and then it will broke your character spell-casting???

 

Removing item does not work, reloading game does not work......

 

 

Create a bug report about it. With all the different class and gear compositions, it's inevitable that specific item-related bugs will slip through.

[Ondb]

 

 

 

 

Well if this makes somebody happy, during my bounty missions i have found out that prone effect does not work at all. There were whole group of humans apparently immune to prone from all my Wizard spells. 

 

However Fighter knockdown worked and applied prone effect, so i could be just part of planned nerf of Wizard spells (slicken, Call to slumber) from 1.03 patch.

 

I think Knockdown targets fortitude, it's possible that the wizard spells were targeting another defense or just missing.

 

 

It could be bug....I went to City and attacked ordinary citizen.

 

1/ Cast Call to slumber (1 hit, 6 critical hits)

2/ The animation of going to prone stance and then going out of prone effect.

3/ Checked conditions: nobody has prone effect applied....

 

Maybe the prone effect now only works if its targeting Fortitude. Slicken is reflex and Call to slumber is will.

 

Could somebody try the same test?

Just go Copperlane (Defiance Bay), attack neutral PC and cast those spells....

 

 

I have confirmed its bug related to item. There item in game which is supposed to apply prone reducing time on yourself...

Instead:

1/ When put on my Wizard, my spell are now applying 0.0 second prone effects on enemies.

2/ Removing the item will not fix now broken slicken, call to slumber spells.

3/ So right now i have Wizard and his prone effect spells are not working at all.

 

I have to wonder how broken the game must be internally to something like this happen....I mean you just need to equip this item once and then it will broke your character spell-casting???

 

Removing item does not work, reloading game does not work......

 

 

Create a bug report about it. With all the different class and gear compositions, it's inevitable that specific item-related bugs will slip through.

 

 

Looks like there is already fix in 1.04 patch:

• Prone Reduction mod should now work correctly.

Edited April 12, 2015 by Ondb

[Ohioastro]

The game does have strong choices in what gets damaged by what.  However, if you go overboard you end up forcing wholesale redesigns.  Do you need to up the number of spells that wizards get if any damage dealing spell only works on half of the opponents?  Do I need xerox fire / cold / lightening / poison spells to play rock paper scissors with enemies?  Do you invalidate entire class core abilities against certain enemies, forcing redesign of levels that would otherwise be too, say, undead heavy?  Do you end up making scouting mandatory so that people fiddle around to get the "right" spells and abilities lined up?  If things are immune to some things, why aren't they vulnerable to others, and doesn't this actually make the game a lot easier?  Wouldn't you make classes like ciphers even stronger if their spells, unlike wizards, worked against everything? 

 

And why do we need to interpret abilities literally anyhow?  The machinery is in place to make certain tools less effective than others; why not just extend that?

Edited April 12, 2015 by Ohioastro

[Stun]

I thought the whole point of an RPG being party based is to allow for those special moments when, for example, your party comes upon a giant iron construct and your Fighter's knockdown and sword of slashing have no effect, but that's ok, because your wizard has a whole spell book filled with Iron-construct-killing spells, thus making him the party's hero for once. Or when you stumble upon a cemetary filled with undead, so your rogue won't shine, but your Priest will.

 

In fact, weren't we promised such a thing?

[Evange]

I remember back in BG 1 and 2 that trolls can only be killed with fire or acid weapons/spells.

[Cronstintein]

I remember back in BG 1 and 2 that trolls can only be killed with fire or acid weapons/spells.

 

And somehow that didn't stop me from finishing it, interesting...

[View619]

Trolls weren't really immune to anything though. You want things like golems that can only be damage by crushing attacks, undead that can't be blinded or feared, slimes that can't be knocked prone, etc.

 

Maybe having trolls that regen health would be interesting. So, you couldn't just whittle them down with low dr penetrating attacks.

Edited April 13, 2015 by View619

[Nerdwing]

Trolls weren't really immune to anything though. You want things like golems that can only be damage by crushing attacks, undead that can't be blinded or feared, slimes that can't be knocked prone, etc.

 

Maybe having trolls that regen health would be interesting. So, you couldn't just whittle them down with low dr penetrating attacks.

Or just a damage threshold.  Isnt that already ingame though?  Just function/status effect so if a hit does <10 damage, if isnt going to do any damage or so.  DR reduction excluded.

[View619]

 

Trolls weren't really immune to anything though. You want things like golems that can only be damage by crushing attacks, undead that can't be blinded or feared, slimes that can't be knocked prone, etc.

 

Maybe having trolls that regen health would be interesting. So, you couldn't just whittle them down with low dr penetrating attacks.

Or just a damage threshold.  Isnt that already ingame though?  Just function/status effect so if a hit does <10 damage, if isnt going to do any damage or so.  DR reduction excluded.

 

 

Minimum damage means you can whittle them down even if DR should negate all damage. I would be all for removing minimum damage, it doesn't seem necessary at all. 

[scrotiemcb]

Wasn't there another thead about this?

 

In any case, I'm opposed to immunities. Even a fire elemental, in my opinion, could be killed with fire. You'd just need some to turn up the heat so high in blows right past the elemental's comfort zone and goes into what it considers unbearably hot.

 

This isn't to say that I don't think monsters should have powerful resistances. In the case of a fire elemental, I'd probably go with 40 DR vs Burn AND an ability of "whenever this takes Burn damage, this heals 10 Endurance." Could you damage it with a crit Fan of Flames? Sure; a base 100 Burn crit would still go through for 50 (hot!). But if you graze you're just healing it, and a standard hit would do mediocre damage.

 

The reason I'm against immunities is because I don't like invalidating builds in an absolute sense. If a player designs his whole party around Burn damage, a fight against fire elementals should be a nightmare... but not impossible. In particular, forcing such a party to rely on an improbable string of crit RNG seems like a good way to say "you might want to change strategy instead of grinding this out." They could still grind it out, though.

 

Same thing with status ailments. I feel a level 1 Wood Elf Rogue using a Hunting Bow at a distance should have about a 20% chance of grazing a Lesser Black Ooze with the status portion of Blinding Strike, and a 80% chance of miss. No chance of a full-duration hit at all. Immune? Not quite. But close.

[Mebrilia]

Immunities from both side (for pc and creature) doesn't appeal me at all, it makes me feel lame.

Pro for high resistance to a type of damage but not immunity.

Fire sword on fire elemental? It's going to take the iron anyway.

 

Rename the blindness status into senseless: you don't put the blind malus, but you affects all senses to give a mean to the accuracy malus usually blind does.

Blind creatures can't easily hit if not because of the other senses. But immunities? No, please

Please... So you find logical creature with no eyes can be blinded?.. Or total fire composed creature can burn....This is lazy....And kinda stupid...Some ennemy must have some immunity don't doing so means go in the realm of nonsense...and see a creature with no eyes blinded no matter how you turn the table but sound Lame and stupid.. This things is what add to gameplay strategy and depth.. Deny them is just a lazy decision no excuses...

 

That was a bad choice... And not logic at all..

Edited April 13, 2015 by Mebrilia

[Stun]

Wasn't there another thead about this?

 

In any case, I'm opposed to immunities. Even a fire elemental, in my opinion, could be killed with fire. You'd just need some to turn up the heat so high in blows right past the elemental's comfort zone and goes into what it considers unbearably hot.

That makes no sense. Lets burn that fire to death? Do you know what a fire elemental IS? It is the essence of Fire. It IS fire. "Turning up the heat" on fire, makes fire bigger, hotter and stronger. Not, weaker, smaller and "uncomfortable".

 

The concept here is no different than seeing a small puddle of water on your kitchen floor and then deciding to dump a giant bucket of water on it in order to "make it less wet"

Edited April 13, 2015 by Stun

[Failion]

 

Immunities from both side (for pc and creature) doesn't appeal me at all, it makes me feel lame.

Pro for high resistance to a type of damage but not immunity.

Fire sword on fire elemental? It's going to take the iron anyway.

 

Rename the blindness status into senseless: you don't put the blind malus, but you affects all senses to give a mean to the accuracy malus usually blind does.

Blind creatures can't easily hit if not because of the other senses. But immunities? No, please

Please... So you find logical creature with no eyes can be blinded?.. Or total fire composed creature can burn....This is lazy....And kinda stupid...Some ennemy must have some immunity don't doing so means go in the realm of nonsense...and see a creature with no eyes blinded no matter how you turn the table but sound Lame and stupid.. This things is what add to gameplay strategy and depth.. Deny them is just a lazy decision no excuses...

 

That was a bad choice... And not logic at all..

 

you blinding their SOUL man not their eyes... Absolute immunities were meh in DnD. At times it felt like smart design but most of the time it was boring because literally all your spells felt useless. Take warlocks for example you'll not bother with any your spells that inflict status effects and focus entirely on damage. Good luck hurting drakes with fire damage in pillars or poisoning ghosts. 

[Stun]

you blinding their SOUL man not their eyes...

What? Where in the world are you getting that from?

[Mebrilia]

Then all you have to do is try different spells... and also this is part of tactics immunity should exist no way you can blind a creature with no eyes... Slime have no eyes...Say otherwise or find justification is just apologysm and make it every attack can do damage even a creature of the same element.. total fire creature damaged by fare.. it just fails hard in logic..

Edited April 13, 2015 by Mebrilia

[Daemonjax]

They probably wanted implement this and weighed it against making some encounters too difficult for new players. I wish they did though. The enemies feel samey, they dont have any traits that make you differentiate them aside from the type of damage you need to use on them. The "equalizing" everything design theme of the game makes it very middle of the road. 

 

It would have been a more interesting difficulty layer than just higher numbers (potd).

[Mebrilia]

Well obsidian instead of trow out logic like that can just make some harder creature with immunity appear in middle level high level places.... Because right now not only feel not logic at all but this system indeed make feel the ennemy all the same..

[Luckmann]

you blinding their SOUL man not their eyes... [...]

 

I'll take "Made-up sh*t that makes no sense" for 500, Alex.

[scrotiemcb]

 

Wasn't there another thead about this?

 

In any case, I'm opposed to immunities. Even a fire elemental, in my opinion, could be killed with fire. You'd just need some to turn up the heat so high in blows right past the elemental's comfort zone and goes into what it considers unbearably hot.

That makes no sense. Lets burn that fire to death? Do you know what a fire elemental IS? It is the essence of Fire. It IS fire. "Turning up the heat" on fire, makes fire bigger, hotter and stronger. Not, weaker, smaller and "uncomfortable".

I disagree. All solids have melting points, and all liquids have boiling points. If you melt or vaporize something, it dies. So unless a fire elemental is completely gaseous, it can be killed with fire.

 

Although, admittedly, I'm taking about a game where you beat on ghosts with swords. Swords which would undoubtedly melt if a fire elemental was hot enough, dealing no damage (actually, wooden arrows and staves burning may be the larger concern).

 

Regardless of the lore, for gameplay reasons, full immunities are bad, for the reasons I gave earlier. The lore can be adapted to suit.

[Stun]

I disagree. All solids have melting points, and all liquids have boiling points. If you melt or vaporize something, it dies. So unless a fire elemental is completely gaseous, it can be killed with fire.

Fire is neither a solid, nor a liquid, nor a gas. It is a reaction.

 

Regardless of the lore, for gameplay reasons, full immunities are bad, for the reasons I gave earlier. The lore can be adapted to suit.

Oh Right, I forgot all about that. You dislike immunities because you don't want to have to think when making party builds. You don't want to be held responsible for your choices. You don't want to play a game that challenges you to adapt. You don't understand the point of party based tactical combat.

 

But I digress. The lack of immunities goes even deeper than its gameplay coddling for the casuals. It ruins the integrity of the game world. How are we supposed to take a game or its lore seriously when it doesn't take itself seriously? When it gives us Flying creatures that can slip and fall on slickened ground they're not touching? Or when it calls something Undead and then gives it living emotions like fear?

 

Obsidian dropped the ball on this one and we all know it. That's why we see people here reduced to making up the most ridiculous of desperate excuses that they themselves don't really buy. "You're blinding their souls!", "You're not knocking down that Ooze, you're knocking down its insides.... or something", "You can put out a fire by making it hotter... really, I've done it!"

Edited April 13, 2015 by Stun

[Namutree]

 

 When it gives us Flying creatures that can slip and fall on slickened ground they're not touching?

The ground is so slippery that they slip just lookin' at it.

 

Seriously though, gameplay wise; we need immunities. Combat is too repetitive, a few enemies with immunities would help deal with that.

[wotdlois]

 

I remember back in BG 1 and 2 that trolls can only be killed with fire or acid weapons/spells.

 

And somehow that didn't stop me from finishing it, interesting..

 

Those fire arrows really came in handy when in this situation.  In fact i think before i came across an enchanted fire weapon it was the only way i was able to kill those pesky trolls, after my party knocked them out of course.  It would be nice to see something like that implemented in future patches.  Stone or iron golems was a whole other problem which at times rendered all but a couple of your party members useful in battling them.  It really made each encounter unique in that respect.