Resting / Camping Discussion Thread

[Sian]

On resting: I just used an empty room in a manor for resting. I shut the door behind me on my way in, rested, and when I woke I cannot open the door ( Having to revert to a previous save. Appears to be a bug; had a quick search in the forums and couldn't find mention of it. If need be, is there a bug\issue reporting list to use? 

[sparklecat]

The problem with some doors being unselectable after the patch is known to the devs, yeah; as of yesterday, they were already working on it.

[PrimeJunta]

If Obsidian removes resting limitations and thereby the strategic dimension of dungeon-delving, I'm going to throw the mother of all hissy fits.

[Caerdon]

I might even throw a "perkele".

[Badmojo]

My character is a Wizard, so I am definitely double hit bad with the horrible resting mechanic.  Truth be told, I got into the habit of never using my spells, because I always think I will need them for some boss or tough encounters.  Which makes the wizard class borrrrrriiiing since all I do is spam the auto attack.  

 

Ok, what about auto recharging/resting when you switch between maps?  Or at least when you are in a dungeon type area with a lot of floors?  Whatever is done, the resting mechanic needs a major change, it just sucks the fun out of the game (at least for me).

Edited April 5, 2015 by Badmojo

[manageri]

If Obsidian removes resting limitations and thereby the strategic dimension of dungeon-delving, I'm going to throw the mother of all hissy fits.

 

Make a mod for yourself that gives you a 60 second loading screen and removes 75 cp when you rest, and voila, you have your awesome strategic dimensions back. Please explain why this is not exactly the same if you disagree.

[PrimeJunta]

You make yourself a mod that removes resting limitations.

 

It wouldn't be the same because it would cost money and loading time. As it is, there's more than enough camping supplies to be found that I've never needed to backtrack for them yet. Yet they're not so common that I can thoughtlessly blast away at every xaurip with my biggest guns.

 

The rest system is great, one of the major improvements over the IE games.

[Badmojo]

Are you playing a wizard?  because it really, really, really sucks for wizards.  Look at the negative reviews on the steam page, just about all of them point to the rest mechanic as a horrible idea.  In BG, you had limited spells, BUT you had unlimited resting.  In POE, somebody got the stupid idea to limit the spells AND resting.  It does not add strategy, it just adds unnecessary tedium and makes you not play your wizard class as a wizard, but a boring someone who has a magic spamming gun.

[PrimeJunta]

Yes I've played a wizard.

[View619]

So, why are there still complaints about the rest system when unlimited resting is as easy as using the console? You can't have unlimited resting and achievements, choose one.

 

This is really a non-issue.

[Badmojo]

because its a bad design?  Should have been an optional toggle for normal settings and just remove rest limits for easy settings at least.  Hard settings makes sense that it would be a fixed limited number.

[View619]

because its a bad design?  Should have been an optional toggle for normal settings and just remove rest limits for easy settings at least.  Hard settings makes sense that it would be a fixed limited number.

 

That's your opinion, really. If you think it should be optional, enter the command in the console. 

If you want a POE that caters to your specific preference then modify it yourself. The developers made the console available for a reason, it just sounds like everybody complaining is too lazy to type a few words to get what they want. Maybe the process of unlocking unlimited resting should be made clear in the first post?

 

The devs implemented resting because they wanted a system that simulates resting in a table-top setting, which the system achieves. Clearly, there is no default toggle because the devs want it to play an important role in the game, not just be ignored.  Notice that easy/normal/hard differ in the number of camping supplies for a reason.

 

In my opinion, the only improvement to be made to the rest system is some sort of penalty for running back to the town inn and resting, such as triggering an unfavourable quest resolution (x woman has been killed, bandits made off with supplies, etc). This would need to be done in a way that avoids locking important quests, though.

Edited April 5, 2015 by View619

[PrimeJunta]

Having no rest limitations promotes lazy strategies. You find one high-level spell that works most of the time, you end up playing by spamming it every battle and resting every time after it. If you have to ration your more powerful abilities, it forces you to think about how to use what you have more efficiently and intelligently, which ends up being more fun.

 

Wizards have two Arcane Assaults. You can take Grimoire Slam or Blast and then develop it. Most non-boss-fights barely last long enough that a wizard has time to use those two Arcane Assaults and maybe fire off one spell. If in addition you're auto-attacking once or twice, that's a long way from "all the time."

 

And, if your fights last much longer than that, then you're not playing very well. The solution isn't to remove rest limitations and rest-spam yourself to oblivion: the solution is to play better.

[NathanH]

 

If Obsidian removes resting limitations and thereby the strategic dimension of dungeon-delving, I'm going to throw the mother of all hissy fits.

 

Make a mod for yourself that gives you a 60 second loading screen and removes 75 cp when you rest, and voila, you have your awesome strategic dimensions back. Please explain why this is not exactly the same if you disagree.

 

 

The point is that the resting system is telling you that you oughtn't be doing this. It's clear that you're not really supposed to leave the dungeon, go to an inn, buy camping supplies, go to sleep for a night, and then come back to the dungeon. But you can't reasonably put this hard limitation in the game, otherwise people will get irrevocably stuck in dungeons. So, leaving the dungeon and coming back again later is a possibility in order to fix this situations, but you shouldn't be looking at it as something you're planning for. You should be planning to play a dungeon with x rests, where x is your camping supplies.

 

Having said that, I can definitely see an argument for camping supplies being used up more slowly when you have fewer party members, thus helping smaller parties.

[Dongom]

 

 

And, if your fights last much longer than that, then you're not playing very well. The solution isn't to remove rest limitations and rest-spam yourself to oblivion: the solution is to play better.

 

Aka not enough actual dmg classes to help your Wizard feel useful as he CCs stuff

[VioNectro]

The solution I think is for adding of buffs per each encounter completed since your last rest. That way there is a combat penalty for constantly resting.

[Badmojo]

Again, wizards are not playing wizards, they are playing gunslingers with the current system because you get punished for playing an actual wizard and using spells in fights.

 

Also, can anybody explain why the hell you have an UNLIMITED stash, but we have limited camping supplies?  Camping supplies that break down after one use?  There is zero logic in this.

[PrimeJunta]

Aka not enough actual dmg classes to help your Wizard feel useful as he CCs stuff

 

Not necessarily. I played through a good stretch of the first part of the game with PC Wiz + Edér + Aloth. It was among my easier runs. With Edér tanking (keeping the nasties off the wizards), and Aloth + PC tag-teaming the opposition with debuff + DD combos, fights were over pretty quickly. I did not use an unreasonable number of spells: for the easier fights one debuff plus the four Arcane Assaults plus Edér did the job, for the medium ones, maybe add one or even two DD spells, and then open up for the hard ones. I did not have to backtrack for supplies, and I think I may have hit 0 camping supplies once in the Eothas temple which I did pretty early. 

 

I also had Edér equipped with two weapon sets, one for tanking, one for hurting, and switched to the hurty weapon when the thaumaturgic duo had softened them up.

 

You do burn up the wizard spells fast if you spam DD and don't use the Arcane Assaults. But that's just a wasteful way to play.

[NeuralClone]

Again, wizards are not playing wizards, they are playing gunslingers with the current system because you get punished for playing an actual wizard and using spells in fights.

 

Also, can anybody explain why the hell you have an UNLIMITED stash, but we have limited camping supplies?  Camping supplies that break down after one use?  There is zero logic in this.

 

This. Having an unlimited stash yet being unable to carry more than 2 or 4 "camping supplies" makes absolutely no sense on any level. It also doesn't make sense that you can fully heal up in a common room at an inn but can't sit down in the wilderness and do the same thing. If anything, I would think it'd be more peaceful in the wilderness than in an inn's noisy common room that always has people coming and going. I'd even be ok with resting in the wilderness resulting in slower healing or a partial recovery.

 

Limitations on resting are fine. I get why the resting restriction was introduced. What I dislike about it is it solves the problem in the most illogical way possible. The worst thing about it is it doesn't even truly solve the marathon resting problem. You can backtrack at almost any point to rest for free and fully recover at an inn. Sure, it's annoying but it can still be done without much of a penalty other than several loading screens. So what exactly does this current system solve? People that want to marathon rest still have a way to do it.

 

I'm also playing a wizard on hard and I also spend the bulk of my time wanding stuff to death. It's boring and it makes my character useless in most battles. If I wanted to play a ranger, I'd play a ranger.

[Kal Adan]

Don't mistake game design for logic. It's not supposed to be logical. It's supposed to be done in a certain way to achieve certain purpose. Camping supplies are consumables to prevent save-scumming and promote more thoughtful approach to combat, or even discourage combat in some cases (you can use stealth, some enemies you can avoid or talk down, etc.).

 

As for stash being unlimited: what having a limited inventory would accomplish in a game? It's same as ammo, while it was more "realistic" in IE games in reality it didn't add anything to the game, so it was taken away.

 

I find way too much to be happening on screen to be bored with a wizard using a crossbow and a priest using a bow between spells (if they are needed). I have 6 characters in my team (7 if companion counts), so there is quite a bit to manage and everyone has their place in the group. There is no clear dominance and that's good in my book.

[Mungri]

Its not about logic, its about game balance.

 

Though I have no opposition to adding unlimited resting on easy. I would alter the levels as follows:

 

Easy - unlimited resting

Normal - 4 supplies

Hard - 3 supplies

Potd - 2 supplies.

 

I've just finished the first two acts on Potd (respec itis) with a wizard and priest for my casters, and never once felt short on spells or limited in being able to cast. 2 supplies plus any that I find are more that enough per dungeon.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Mungri

[Trauma_Hound]

im playing solo on hard, its fun but i have to run back town every 3-4 fights, its stupid. i dont think i gon play anymore untill i can find somekind mod for this. does anyone know where i can find a mod like that.

 

Hit the ` button > type in: iroll20s > cheats are now enabled and you can now type in: rest

 

Use your best judgement on when you should use it to make the game a bit less of a pain in the ass, but still a challenge?

[Hogfather]

If you're crying upset about Wizards then surely you haven't levelled one up and grabbed a couple of Rings of Wizardry?

 

Resting limits rarely come into my considerations on when to use Aloth's spells these days at level 8, and I'm playing on Hard. Sure I don't use high level spells on easier encounters, but I don't bother to use Priest per-encounter abilities then anyway, so free resting wouldn't change that. 3 sets of his spell loadout per trip to town is generally more than enough.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Hogfather

[adreeasa]

The limited number of times you can rest would make sense if you were locked in a dungeon after entering ; that way you had a certain number of resources + what you can find on the way to finish a number of challenges. It would have made things more interesting on higher difficutlies whiloe leaving the lower ones alone.

 

As it is right now it's just an inconvenience really....

[Caerdon]

The limited number of times you can rest would make sense if you were locked in a dungeon after entering ; that way you had a certain number of resources + what you can find on the way to finish a number of challenges. It would have made things more interesting on higher difficutlies whiloe leaving the lower ones alone.

 

As it is right now it's just an inconvenience really....

 

It's enough of an inconvenience that most players learn to manage their resources instead of running to the inn and back. If the game locked you to a dungeon with limited resources we'd have a serious issue with lots of players hitting a brick wall they can't hope to overcome, and the only way would be to load an earlier save and do the entire dungeon again from the beginning.