Thinking about classes for my next playthrough I've come with an idea of using rogue as a tank (because of his riposte ability) and armor with Retaliation property.

 

I've console created it in final dungeon, tested it a bit and it's working quite well - together with healing on my weapon my enemies not only kill themselves, but also heal my tank :D On the downside - it takes a bit if they have high DR.

 

What's even more funny - every retaliation hit triggers deep wounds

 

What do you think about this?

Edited April 4, 201510 yr by Myrten

I actually had a similar idea going through the classes trying to theorycraft a bunch of different builds. The thing that put me off the idea is that your early game is going to be a nightmare since you lack a lot of the abilities to make it work till at least level 7, along with the fact that it requires the right gear more than the traditional tanks. You could always of course leave a rogue on the sidelines and sub hum in once he reaches that level though.

Things like this make me wish the XP wasn't so broken. It looks like a cool idea.

Things like this make me wish the XP wasn't so broken. It looks like a cool idea.

How is xp broken? 

 

You mean the xp differential you're supposed to get for having fewer than 6 party members?

Do the three retaliation items stack? There is also a retaliation shield/cape.

Retaliation items don't stack, at least with Sanguin+Hiro's, one gets 'suppressed'.  
Hiro's is also obtainable quite early.

It's also not mentioned, but deep wounds does damage on reapply.
Has anyone tested if Vulnerable Attack is applied on Riposte full attack (don't see why it shouldn't).

 

The problem I can see is that you need to be actually hit for Retaliate to work, while Riposte works on miss.

With High deflect, you're not going to get a lot of Retaliates. 

 

I actually had a similar idea going through the classes trying to theorycraft a bunch of different builds. The thing that put me off the idea is that your early game is going to be a nightmare since you lack a lot of the abilities to make it work till at least level 7, along with the fact that it requires the right gear more than the traditional tanks. You could always of course leave a rogue on the sidelines and sub hum in once he reaches that level though.

It should be fine, you're can just pick up normal dps talents early game and play it like a standard dps rogue. 

Retaliation items don't stack, at least with Sanguin+Hiro's, one gets 'suppressed'.  

Hiro's is also obtainable quite early.

 

It's also not mentioned, but deep wounds does damage on reapply.

Has anyone tested if Vulnerable Attack is applied on Riposte full attack (don't see why it shouldn't).

 

The problem I can see is that you need to be actually hit for Retaliate to work, while Riposte works on miss.

With High deflect, you're not going to get a lot of Retaliates. 

 

I actually had a similar idea going through the classes trying to theorycraft a bunch of different builds. The thing that put me off the idea is that your early game is going to be a nightmare since you lack a lot of the abilities to make it work till at least level 7, along with the fact that it requires the right gear more than the traditional tanks. You could always of course leave a rogue on the sidelines and sub hum in once he reaches that level though.

It should be fine, you're can just pick up normal dps talents early game and play it like a standard dps rogue.

 

Can you give me a hint where Hiro is ?

 

Vulnerable attack is applied on riposte, I've checked that. Retaliate works on hit,graze,crit and Riposte works on miss so everything is covered

Hmm, looks like an interesting build might try it out

Has anyone tried retaliation on a Cipher? It looks like it might generate focus, especially with draining whip. Should be pretty fun alternative build.

Edited April 4, 201510 yr by MadDemiurg

Tested and approved for Rogue.

 

By maxing the Deviation and getting enough Endurance to handle a long fight, this is currently one of the best build and especially of you're solo.

 

You have to know that Retaliation also procs when your character is cc'ed (on the ground to exaple).

 

Extremely good skill (probably one of the best).

Have you tried a retaliation monk? If so, how does this build compare to that?

Ok, it works with cipher focus. Might be the most broken thing ever. Rolling a cipher tank now.

Edited April 4, 201510 yr by MadDemiurg

Hmm, the better question would be, how well does this compare to the fire godlike retal barb? As far as retal goes Barbs are monsters in that department. Anyone tested it out yet?

If you use One Stands alone on fire retaliation barb it's completely broken. It's definitely bugged though. I still believe cipher is more broken at high level, because his level 6 spells are nuts.

There are also several weapons that provide +50% burn damage, making fire retaliation even more ridiculous.

There are also several weapons that provide +50% burn damage, making fire retaliation even more ridiculous.

 

which weapon does that?

Retaliation items don't stack, at least with Sanguin+Hiro's, one gets 'suppressed'.  

Hiro's is also obtainable quite early.

 

Interested in this build, I found out what the Sanguine armour is, could someone explain what/where "Hiro's" is please?

The mental image of the carnage that would unfold with a Fire Godlike Cipher Tank is hilarious. His dps would still be phenomenal compared to most tanks.

I tested this a while ago and it absolutely works. It feels a bit gimmicky, but it works. I went with a two-hander rogue. Combined with the Cipher's Pain Block, it works very well. Any time you're attacked, you get to retaliate with the armor and riposte -- it's kinda insane. It works equally for a barbarian because they're meant to get in there and take damage.

 

Where are the retaliation items found, though?

Edited April 4, 201510 yr by Lasci

I have been looking for a good Solo build for PoTD triple crown.. I tried a straight barb, but maybe this will work..

 

However, like others i need to know WHERE to get these supposedly easily obtainable retaliation items..

What would be a nice stat spread for a retal barb, I'm sure it has to be a bit more tankier than regular builds.

What would be a nice stat spread for a retal barb, I'm sure it has to be a bit more tankier than regular builds.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74074-my-fire-barbarian-tankish-build/

Had the retal armor on a hired barb my first time through the game. Maxed Might/Con/Int and she topped my party's damage by A TON. The barb passives/high con/stalwart defiance heal thing, allowed her to tank and top damage.

Problem with fire godlike builds is that your endurance has to drop below 50%, with this one you are almost always at 100% health as draining weapon heals you.

Had the retal armor on a hired barb my first time through the game. Maxed Might/Con/Int and she topped my party's damage by A TON. The barb passives/high con/stalwart defiance heal thing, allowed her to tank and top damage.

 

Was he fire godlike?