unbias Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 To be honest the people screaming censorship and threatening to never buy or back an Obsidian game again are just as extreme and silly as the people who complained in the first place. The only person who could be legitimately angry about this entire issue is the backer who paid for it. Provided he was involved in the decision who the hell cares? It's between Obsidian and that specific backer, and has no bearing on the games plot. I never threaten to not buy any of their games again, but it will have me double take at the "other" game I would be buying if I didnt buy an obsidian game. The actually content is incredibly minor and very stupid thing to care about. However, the philosophy behind the pull IS something to care about. When you pull things due to censorship you are sending a clear message that you can force censorship on companies, whether the majority buying the product want the censorship or not. This is the kind of president MANY people are against. It isnt really about the backer being ok with it, it's the fact the backer HAD to be ok with it, because censorship won the day. This is a philosophical problem, not one of specific content. 1
darkpatriot Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) You mean he. She identifies as woman and she is legally considered to be woman, claiming otherwise is just plain attacking another forum user, which is against rules of this forum. No it isn't. Considering MtF transsexuals to still be male is a valid opinion and is neither hateful nor intolerant. It is in no way an attack on someone. Easy there basement dweller. However, Calling someone a basement dweller is an attack. Edited April 3, 2015 by darkpatriot 6
76prophet Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I feel left out (only slightly). I have NO idea what you folks are talking about, but I actively avoid social media. What was the original content? /shrug 2
Eggnog Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 It was changed And this thing went from bad to worse... Oh boy. Well - I'm grateful I never backed this with more than the minimum required for the basegame. I feel so bad for the people who spent hundreds or more, only to be shat on. Maybe you should check to see if the backer agreed to the change before you go off the deep end? If the backer is ok with it, good for him. Its still not ok with me. What happened here was that Obsidian allowed a tiny number of twitter losers to edit content in their game. In *my* game. This is unacceptable. This is a big game with a lot of 'mature' themes and a wide range of potentially offensive actions available to the player. Some people will be offended by one or more of these themes and the actions the player can take, or the actions of others in the story. So what? Offended people have a choice. Buy the game or don't. Consume the content or don't. Obsidian is letting the offended make that choice for everyone, and that is wrong. And ****ing stupid. I don't think any of knows right now what happened with any sort of certainty. People think they, or are "sure" they know, or whatever fits their pet paradigm. What if, for example, the backer in question asked Obsidian to change it to something else he created in order to stop the madness and drama? Is Obsidian condemned then? Are any of you still going to demand a refund and swear to never touch and Obsidian game ever again? Talk about drama.
Parsong Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I hope that the old poem is someday restored, while being paired with the new one. Maybe for a GOTY edition of the game? Hopefully, the SJWs would have abandoned Pillars once they figure out that the game wasn't built for them. Come on, we got a tree of dead people and infantcide. This game was not meant to be politically correct. SJW double standards, kill anyone you want, but call someone their actual scientific/factual gender and you're a devil. 8
VanishedOne Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I'm not sure people here get the joke in the changed limerick. Because its actually pretty funny. Don't be so butthurt, jeez. Qualified agreement: as a pithy way of giving people what they demanded but in nothing like the way they wanted it, I find it very droll. It's just not an approach that would work more than once...
endruwiggin Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Why do u guys ever care the slightest ? First u complain there are too many backers things in your game and now u complain that Obsidian decided to remove some backer content. Just ... play your game and chillax .... Why do people care? Because this reflects poorly upon the integrity of the writers of the story - If they bow down to such a pitiful and fundamentally flawed complaint, there's little hope for any wit and interesting dialogue in the future content (Remember that Expansion they've pledged to do?) I didn't know that removing a minor thing from game (that makes a group of people hurt while not affecting everyone else), means that Josh Sawyer, Chris Avallone (and the rest of the gang) lost their integrity and wont make witty dialogues anymore...
Althernai Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 None of you know the circumstances of the change.This is true and therein lies much of the problem. If the patch notes included a line like "Memorial changed after consultation with the backer", there would not be nearly as much outrage. I understand that Obsidian has neither the power nor, most likely, the desire, to do battle with the scum of Twitter and the latter can do a great deal of harm. However, I find it problematic that they tried to sneak this change into the game without mentioning it anywhere. For now just take it easy and stop pouring foul on the fire.No. Some fires are necessary. 3
Elerond Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 You mean he. She identifies as woman and she is legally considered to be woman, claiming otherwise is just plain attacking another forum user, which is against rules of this forum. No it isn't. Considering MtF transsexuals to still be male is a valid opinion and is neither hateful nor intolerant. It is in no way an attack on someone. Attacking another users person is against forum rules regardless of what you think about world. Every opinion is valid even if it's utterly wrong and absolute idiotic and don't match with real world.
Sleazebag Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 dem sjws took meh funneh poem, wun stan' for dis shiat, obsidian moar like ob****tyan!!! i am taking my copy of teh game and putting it in teh toilet cos thats teh place for it now, fo real though i gotta run toilet.exe and drag the shortcut there coz i only got a digital copy. oh wait the backer agreed to have it removed and submitted a new poem?? what a liberal poopoohead 1
Tywyll Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 I still havent redeemed my steam key (I was waiting until I finished building a better PC). I wonder if I could get a refund. Probably not, but I wont be buying Obsidian games in the future, atleast I wont buy them new. 3 Issues 1) You guys ****ed up. You allowed the content then removed it. You either shouldnt have put it in to begin with, or kept it. 2) You caved because of a few thin skinned people on twitter (I wonder how many acually backed you), on a matter that is subjective (being offended). Can you also kill all elves because my headmate Pelinal Whitestrake finds them offensive? 3) This guy you screwed over, paid for that reward. Did you atleast give him a refund, because this being done quietly makes me think you didnt. Enjoy your thin skinned fans Obsidian. Lets hope they actually support you enough to buy your games when they arent whining on twitter.
Divinehammer Posted April 3, 2015 Author Posted April 3, 2015 Bah mod approval, things have moved on since first post. So for the moment we know that the memorial was replaced, the question is was this instigated by the backer or by Obsidian?
oldbenkenobi Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 We are in a radical wave of opinions this decade, jokes aren't allowed anymore. At least they don't have to ask for backer money for the expansion(possibly). I will absolutely give them money through more classic means so they can operate independent of peoples' opinions.
Meretrelle Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 The problem is the precedent this sets. Removing something because it was offensive? Find me something someone somewhere doesn't find offensive 11
Sleazebag Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Some caves probably have obsidian in them because of all that volcanic activity, just a shower thought
rangerjames Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Well, I see a joke got censored before bugs were fixed. I know where Obsidian priorities lie. Beg for money to be free of outside pressure, cave to a twitter hate mob. Also way to take the cowards way out. No official statement, nothing in the patch notes. Just removed a $500 backers content without a care. Well, that was the last of my money or positive word from me that Obsidian will ever get. 1
darkpatriot Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) You mean he. She identifies as woman and she is legally considered to be woman, claiming otherwise is just plain attacking another forum user, which is against rules of this forum. No it isn't. Considering MtF transsexuals to still be male is a valid opinion and is neither hateful nor intolerant. It is in no way an attack on someone. Attacking another users person is against forum rules regardless of what you think about world. Every opinion is valid even if it's utterly wrong and absolute idiotic and don't match with real world. The debate on gender is far from settled. The position that gender is intrinsically tied to sex and biology is a perfectly valid opinion that is held by a great many people. Quite possibly the majority. I haven't looked at any studies on views over the subject recently (if there have been any recent ones) so I couldn't tell you any exact figures. To act like a person having that opinion is attacking a transperson is ridiculous. Someone disagreeing with someone else is not an attack. Edited April 3, 2015 by darkpatriot 4
Irx Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Attacking another users person is against forum rules regardless of what you think about world. Every opinion is valid even if it's utterly wrong and absolute idiotic and don't match with real world. Your definition of attack is false and is demagogical. Also opinions of idiots are not valid by definition regardless of what you think about it. 2 // believing is bleeding
EmilAmundsen Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 (edited) That's just brilliant :D I linked this thread to a thread on the steam-forums. Hope u don't mind. Edited April 3, 2015 by EmilAmundsen 1
Broadcaster Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Why do u guys ever care the slightest ? First u complain there are too many backers things in your game and now u complain that Obsidian decided to remove some backer content. Just ... play your game and chillax .... Why do people care? Because this reflects poorly upon the integrity of the writers of the story - If they bow down to such a pitiful and fundamentally flawed complaint, there's little hope for any wit and interesting dialogue in the future content (Remember that Expansion they've pledged to do?) I didn't know that removing a minor thing from game (that makes a group of people hurt while not affecting everyone else), means that Josh Sawyer, Chris Avallone (and the rest of the gang) lost their integrity and wont make witty dialogues anymore... It's called the 'chilling effect' ... essentially future content will be nerfed because Obsidian fears the irrationality of loose perpetually-outraged canons. The Steam forums on on fire. People are pissed .. and they'll vote with their pocketbooks. 3
rkade8583 Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Firedorn, I hope you see this post. My wife and I were very worried that Obsidian would censor your funny poem and your new poem is miles more hilarious than your previous one AND skewers the situation perfectly. You are a funny person and if we were ever to meet you, we'd buy you a drink. I haven't seen a situation handled that adroitly in a long, long time. 1
Mungri Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 Doesnt matter if youre ok with it if that guy still got scammed off his $500. 3
AlyxDinas Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 They made a decision. All you really care about is that it isn't the one you wanted. But it was, at the end of the day, their choice to make and not your own. 2
HozzM Posted April 3, 2015 Posted April 3, 2015 It was changed And this thing went from bad to worse... Oh boy. Well - I'm grateful I never backed this with more than the minimum required for the basegame. I feel so bad for the people who spent hundreds or more, only to be shat on. Maybe you should check to see if the backer agreed to the change before you go off the deep end? If the backer is ok with it, good for him. Its still not ok with me. What happened here was that Obsidian allowed a tiny number of twitter losers to edit content in their game. In *my* game. This is unacceptable. This is a big game with a lot of 'mature' themes and a wide range of potentially offensive actions available to the player. Some people will be offended by one or more of these themes and the actions the player can take, or the actions of others in the story. So what? Offended people have a choice. Buy the game or don't. Consume the content or don't. Obsidian is letting the offended make that choice for everyone, and that is wrong. And ****ing stupid. Yes, but here's the thing. If the backer requested it to be changed then Obsidian is basically obligated to comply, regardless of the devs' political leanings or views on censorship. He/she paid for the tier and gets to decide what he/she wants to do with it. Yes, it sucks that random people on the internet can sway people's opinions, but from a business perspective Obsidian needs to listen to their backers, and if that's what happened then that's what they did. Well, first of all. I am 99.9% sure the guy that wrote the memorial did not approach Obsidian about changing it. It was a ****ing joke. He wrote it, he obviously was not offended by it. But even if that is the way it happened I don't think that "...Obsidian is basically obligated to comply...". You think that if any of the other 386 Backers at this tier decided, after the game was released, that their memorial needed to be changed, that Obsidian would change it? Of course not. This was changed because of Twitter whiners. I do agree with you that Obsidian should listen to their backers and I would bet good money that if they polled all of their backers with this question: If someone on Twitter is offended by something in our game should we change it? Yes or No. the answer would be overwhelmingly in favor of NO. 3
Recommended Posts