What do I need to know to plan a Chanter?

[Crystal]

I've read guides, manuals, wiki, and still not understand well how to plan a character, this game really needs a character planner, but meanwhile I need a reference. I know that we can reach level 12, but is unclear how many stuff I can pick per level. I need a step by step Chanter's build guide. I know about the character creation process; my problem is that I need a schedule to a target a end-game build like this:

 

(I'm guessing)

Level 1 Character Creation (Chanter)

Level 2 1 Skill, 1 Talent

Level 3 1 Attribute

Level 4 1 Ability

...till level 12

 

I want to be a not-summoning Chanter (a blend between a paladin with warrior-mage), for the race a Meadow Girl from Vailia, and for the gear I am tempting to use Arquebuses with the chant to rapid reload, would you tell me if that is recommended as well?

[Lasci]

Planning characters isn't hard.

 

Offense = might for damage, dexterity for speed, intelligence for duration and area of effect.

Defense = constitution for strength, resolve and perception for deflection.

 

A chanter can literally be or do anything as long as you understand that you need to keep in range of whatever you want your chants to effect. Scroll over the book icon for your chants to see how far their range extends.

 

Chanters are widely accepted as good off-tanks because armor doesn't reduce how fast you chant and you're essentially waiting for that big invocation that's going to affect the combat. You're going to want some intelligence at the very least. Spread stats as you desire otherwise.

 

Most of the chants are worthwhile to use. Summoning is also a good focus. Anything that paralyzes, stuns, knocks down, or otherwise impedes the enemy is good.

[Crystal]

Yes, you can avoid the Character Creation step, I prefer to focus in what things I will be able to choose in each level.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Crystal

[Lasci]

Like I said, there aren't many bad chants. Explore what's best for your team.

[pi2repsion]

First of all, maximize your Int unless you are going for a tank build, where you'll want to focus on the defensive attributes. The Chanters chants are much too good to not take advantage of the huge AOE radius otherwise.

 

For something warrior-mage like, you might want to consider making a chanter that mostly relies on the damage chants, even though the level 1 chant is unimpressive, as it is thematic as all hell and, later on, quite useful as well. The Chanter should in this case obviously fight ranged from the middle of your formation, probably with the largest gun you can get your hands on and two-hander in his spare weapon set for when enemies break the front line.

 

If you use a custom formation that is five deep (tanks rank 1, offtanks 2, chanter and other non-squishies 3, squishies 5) and you have high int, your AOE radius will overlap both your entire team and most enemies engaging your tanks, which is really helpful: You'll be providing constant endurance regeneration to your party while changing between chants to either buff or debuff as appropriate and firing away with the weapon of your choice. For such a character you can maximize MIG, DEX, and INT by tanking CON - you can even get halfway decent RES conversation options if you are also willing to dump PER to boost RES.

 

...or you can use more sane non-min-maxed stats, but hey, it is an option.

 

...or you can use the diametrically opposite approach and make the Chanter an excellent tank or offtank - it is an amazingly versatile class due to the chants and starting with high deflection. It is damn hard to go wrong with the chants, because they are almost universally good, do exactly what they say, and do it all the time without player input.

Edited April 2, 2015 by pi2repsion

[Crystal]

Yes, I really appreciate all kind of advises, but my real problem is the progression, I'm clueless in "which" and "how many" Skills, Talents, Attributes, Abilities, Chants, Summons, etc, I would be able to learn in each level...

 

For example, I'm planning to max MIG, DEX and INT, but I need to know how many extra pointsI will be able to pick through the next levels. Or, I really like the summon that releases a lightning, but if in the future I will be able to learn better direct damage summons, I prefer the phantom summon that will be more useful through the firsts levels. I don't even know if I will be able to learn ALL summons, all guides are centered on character creation but there isn't any progression guide, I'm completely clueless, jha!   

[pi2repsion]

Okay, in that case:

 

After the first level you alternate between gaining a new chant and gaining a new invocation when you increase in level, so you are not going to learn everything.

 

Second level abilities start at character level 5, and IIRC third level abilities start at character level 9.

 

You receive a talent on every second level.

Edited April 2, 2015 by pi2repsion

[Lasci]

Your attributes also never increase. They're static after character creation, save for what you get from items.

 

Use this to look at all the chants.

Edited April 2, 2015 by Lasci

[The Josip]

Does Ancient Memory stack if there are more chanters in a group? I assume not but want to be sure. In other words, do I take this on more than one Chanter or not?

Do chants that affect foes stack? In particular, the chant that lowers endurance. Is there a point in having more chanters use that one?

 

What's the consensus on Talents? Overall I'll be able to pick 4 of them by max level no? Aside of Marksman and weapon spec I'm not sure what to take. Some look interesting but I lack experience to know how good they would be throughout the game. For example, Fast Runner (on every party member) combined with the movement chant works in the beginning, but does it work later I've no idea. What speed enemies have in mid and engame? Do I enter new floor and get overwhelmed by a dozen enemies in which case there's nowhere to run? That kind of thing.

 

My current main Chanter started with 19-10-18-8-19-4 (ranged). Is that well optimized? If I add more Chanters to a group what would be their stats, both for tank, off-tank and support/dps?

 

Is there any point in Chanter using a pike? I'd love to have one like that, but I'm hesitant because I fear he'd get squished without a shield and full defensive build.

 

 

Note: This is for PotD+Ironman, so "Normal" and "Hard" tactics and choices don't apply.

[Faydark]

I haven't seen an accurate up-to-date guide or list of talents and "what you get each level" anywhere yet either. I'd love to have one for character planning as well.

[pi2repsion]

Max level is 12 so you get 6 talents through from levelups during the game, not 4.

[Lasci]

Are you playing on PotD? This game isn't that hard. There isn't much to "optimization," like I said above. You shouldn't need a step-by-step guide.

 

Chants don't stack. They're unique effects. Therefore, you definitely don't want more than one chanter.

 

Your stats are fine as long as you understand that you're going to get destroyed at any point that an enemy comes to get you. It's worth noting that Chanters also serve as good off-tanks, because they don't really need to be doing anything quickly -- chants aren't effected by speed or dexterity, so wearing a shield and heavy armor allows you to be tanky while still doing everything a chanter wants to do. That said, it's perfectly reasonable for a chanter to stick to the back lines and fire off a bow.

 

Talent-wise, Ancient Memory is always good -- it provides a heal while chanting. Benevolent Spirits might not be worth it after the patch, but to be honest I'm not sure what else you'd take. Weapon focus isn't great, in my opinion, especially not on a Chanter. +6 accuracy is only good early, but unless you find a really good weapon that you're convinced you'd stay with, it pigeon holes you into a specific ranged weapon -- and you might find later that you don't like using that ranged weapon. Marksman, Precision Shot, and Gunner are good if you're going to be ranged. There's an argument to be made for Graceful Retreat if you find your Chanter being attacked constantly. Outside of those, it doesn't really matter what else you take. 

 

First level phrases kinda suck, but they're all fast -- meaning you can fire off your invocations quickly. In fact, most phrases are bad until might higher levels. Invocations are were Chanters shine. The endurance draining chant and the one that increases fortitude and will are both good enough, though. At second level, you absolutely need to pick up the chant that increases reload time and ranged attack speed. I would probably also pick up the frightened phrase. Level three phrases make things interesting. These take a long time to chant, but they have incredible effects. Take any of these -- they all have their uses in every situation, other than perhaps the one that protects against prone. 

 

In terms of invocations, all of the summoning ones are good early. At level one, the invocation that reduces enemy DR and the one that stuns are both good -- but they're cones, so they need to be used at close range. At level two, with an intelligence as high as your chanter's, the paralyze or charm invocation is essential. After that, pick whatever you want. A summon would do. Level three invocations are insane. It's hard to just choose one. If you don't have a paladin with Reviving Exhortation, the reviving invocation might be a good choice if you're having troubles dying in combat. But that's a bit of a waste.

 

In long, difficult 'boss' fighters or large mobs of powerful enemies on harder difficulties, you're going to want to use fast, low-level phrases so that you can positively effect the battlefield with an invocation. For more generic 'trash mob' fights, you're going to want to stick with your longer, more powerful phrases because combat isn't going to be over fast enough for your invocations to matter when they're finally available.

[Ganrich]

Actually, 2 Chanters is fine as long as you don't have them using the same phrases at the same time.  A little overlap won't hurt either.  

 

I will use 2 mid-level chanters as an example.  I will use an plus sign (+) for the main Phrase and a Equal sign for the Linger effect (=), and the semicolon will indicate the chanter starts over ( .  Each use of the + and = signs will be 1 second of the chant.  

 

We will keep Thick Grew their tongues on the enemies constantly.  Chanter 1 will speak Thick Grew their tongues, at the sight of their comrades, and then Dull the edge, and go back to sight of their comrades.  Chanter 2 will use Lo their Endless Host, and then Thick Grew their tongues, and move to .  The numbers signify the phrase being used:

 

1) Thick Grew their tongues

2) at the sight of their comrades

3)  Dull the Edge

4)  Lo their Endless host

 

Chanter 1:

1)  ++++==            ++++==   

2)          ++++==            

3)                  ++++==    :

 

Chanter 2:

4)  ++++++===  ++++++===

1)              ++++==        :

 

There is a 2 second gap at the end where we have an overlap from the last linger of Thick Grew their Tongues.  I copied the effects of Thick grew their tongues.

1)  ++++==            ++++==  

1)              ++++==        :  < both Chants reset at the same time.  So, they will not go out of sync.  

 

With 2 Chanters we can have the enemies nearly constantly Frightened (1 second where that debuff wears off), and constantly at -10 Concentration.

 

Of course you could also have 1 Chanter Debuff enemies (tank) as a melee, and another Chanter buff the party (DPS) as a mid-ranged gunner/archer. Chanters have 5 phrases each spell level, and only get access to 3 at the most with level 1.  I just looked at my level 12 Chanter and you only get 2 level 2 and 2 level 3 phrases.  Since there are five each level you could have 2 Chanters doing some wonderful buffs/debuffs, and hardly ever overlap while having only a few gaps where the enemy isn't debuffed or the party isn't buffed.  

 

Heck, the only level where you could double up on a phrase is level 1, and I would probably pick Come, Come Soft winds of Death for that.  So, if you wanted to constantly do a little AoE damage you could.

 

Anyway, to the OP:  Talent picks will depend on what you want.  Ancient memory and Beloved Spirits are about to get their Endurance healing halved from the looks of things from the patch notes.  They weren't great before, and soon they will be worse.  

 

If you want to be a tank then I would suggest defensive talents:  Weapon and Shield Style, Superior Defense, Cautious Attack, Hold the Line, etc.  You will max (or close to max) Perception and Resolve, and you will want good Intellect for bigger AoE's on Invocations and Chants, and it will increase duration times on your Invocations as well. If you want to help more offensively then having Interrupting Blows talent + Thick Grew their Tongues (phrase) may be fun.  You won't hit often, but with your high perception combined with the aforementioned talent and phrase you will interrupt a lot.  High Lore will give you the ability to cast scrolls for fun.  I would get enemy attention, use CC (with another character), and cast Fan of Flames from a scroll as an opener in a lot of situations.  Tank being at the front made it incredibly easy to land.  

 

I picked mostly debuffs for my tank Chanter because I could ensure most enemies would be debuffed, but didn't always have my ranged close enough for the buffs.  So, I would recommend Debuffing enemies if you are melee.  Invocations I picked were Stuns, Debuffs, some damage.  I rarely used the damage when I could kill the enemies DR or stun them.  I didn't use summons, but they are useful.  So, if you like summons then by all means.  

 

For a ranged build then pick talents for that, and then Phrases and invocations that seem reasonable.

 

You could make a non-tank melee using reach weapons (pikes ect), or a Dual Wielding Chanter.  They would work a lot like the tank spec with different talents ofcourse.  You would also have to be patient and let enemies settle onto the tanks.  Because without Resolve, Perception, Weapon and Shield, and tank talents... you will get hit and it will hurt.  

 

My one issue with the Chanter, after finishing the game with mine, is that they only have 2 Class specific talents.  Ancient Memory and Beloved Spirits.  Beloved Spirits just improves Ancient Memory, and they are both passive.  The class doesn't do much outside of auto-attack.  You can cast Invocations when you get enough Chants up, but it doesn't happen often.  However, they really do win battles.  A Chanter with 5 Chants up is a terrifying thing.  Anyway, I wish Obsidian would give us some active abilities to use.  Wizards, Priests, and Druids all get active abilities to help conserve spells, but chanters get nothing to do.  The only exception is when you switch chants, cast from scrolls (expensive to do), and invocations.  

 

EDIT:  I don't know if Ancient Memory Stacks with multiple chanters.  I don't believe it is a buff.  I think it would, but I could be wrong.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Ganrich

[Crystal]

mmm... so at level 12 I will have only: +6 Chant, +6 Invocations and +6 Talents, that's all? How can I develop Skills (Stealth, Athletics, Lore, Mechanics and Survival)?

 

Okay, with this information and the wiki I've making a draft of my build, what do you think?

 

Attributes

MIG     18 (+1 Human)

CON    10

DEX     14

PER     8

INT      18 (+1 Vailia)

RES    10 (+1 Human)

 

Chants

1º level chant - +10 Fortitude, +10 Will

1º level chant - +1.2 Move Speed, +10 Reflex

1º level chant - x0.9 Slashing, x0.9 Piercing damage

2º level chant - Increases reload time and speed of ranged attacks from allies

2º level chant - Frightening enemies

3º level chant - Increases the Deflection of allies

 

Invocations

1º level invocation - Summons a phantom

1º level invocation - Creates three bolts of lightning

1º level invocation - Creates a thunderous explosion

2º level invocation - Charm effect on all enemies

2º level invocation - Paralyzes Enemy

3º level invocation - Revives unconscious allies (or Attacks enemies in seven directions if I'm good enough)

 

Talents

Ancient Memory (maybe this don't worth)

Beloved Spirits (maybe this don't worth)

 

If tank shield chanter

Cautious Attack (x0.8 Speed +10 Deflection)

One-Handed Style (more hits)

Weapon and Shield Style (+deflection +reflex)

Superior Deflection (+deflection)

 

If DPS arquebus chanter

Marksman (+5 Ranged accuracy)

Gunner (+20% Ranged reload speed)

Shot on the Run (Reload when moving)

Two-Handed Style (+1.15 damage)

[Lasci]

A couple of things to note:

 

If you want to be ranged, your attributes are totally fine. If you want to be a tank, however, you should drop might and dexterity and put points into constitution, resolve, and intelligence instead.

 

Your talents are fine except for two-handed style on the ranged guy and one-handed style on the tank. The two-handed talent doesn't work on ranged weapons. Take Precise Shots instead. If you're dead set on using the arquebus, take Weapon Focus: Soldier early instead of Shot on the Run last. For the tank, instead of taking one-handed style, you can take Hold the Line.

[Ganrich]

You actually get:

 

6 Skill points a level starting at level 2.  6 x 11 = 66 Starting skill points are dictated by Class and Background (Scientist, Laborer, Scholar, etc).  Every point you put into a skill after the first increases its cost for the next.  So, at level 2 with a Chanter you would have 0 in Athletics (unless you pick a background that gives athletics).  To get 1 point in it you put 1 point, but if you want to put another point then that requires 2 more points.  This means it requires 3 points total to get level 2 in a skill.  It is hard to explain.  Chanters get a +2 to Lore and +1 to Mechanics at level 1.  So, let's say you want Lore to be higher at level 2.  Even though your Lore is already 2 you only need to invest 1 point to get to 3, and 2 more to get to 4, etc.  This means your Class and background dictate how cheaply you can attain more points in a skill.  

 

Hopefully this makes sense, but if not it is incredibly intuitive and shouldn't hinder you.  You should be able to understand what I mean when you get to level 2.

 

If you don't wanna be a scroll caster... I recommend a background that gives you +1 to Mechanics as it will start you at 2 in Mechanics, and that means you will be better at finding traps, disarming them, and picking locks.  There isn't a companion that is really optimal for Mechanics.  

 

The phrase/invocation spread at level 12 is actually:

 

3 level 1 phrases.

2 level 2 phrases.

2 level 3 phrases.

 

3 level 1 invocations.

2 level 2 invocations.

2 level 3 invocations.

 

I would ignore the level 1 Invocation that does lightning damage.  It does pitiful damage.  I didn't see it in the patch notes as being buffed... Take that how you will.  If you don't want a summon... I would get the one that reduces enemy DT in its stead.  (And Hel-Hyraf Crashed upon the Shield)  

 

Everything else looks solid.  Don't ignore the level 3 invocation that does AoE ice damage around the caster.  It is silly good damage.  I ended a few of the toughest fights (no spoilers for you) on hard with it.  It's caveat is that it is really easy to peg your party members with it.  It has 7 large icebolts that shoot from your body in all directions.  REALLY BIG TELEGRAPH that is hard to avoid with your friendlies. Also, the drake summon is stupid good, and the Might, con, res buff is +5 to all for 30 seconds.  Same buff for Perc, Dex, and Int is also +5 for 30 seconds.  None of the level 3 invocations are bad really.  They are rarely used because it is hard to get 5 chants to fuel them, but when you get 5 in a tough fight they are game changers.  I tested all these level 3 Invocations by saving as I dinged around level 10 or 11.  They are all potent.  Only one I didn't test was the Ogre summon.  

 

I don't want to talk about what is good, or bad, with the archer/gunner chanter.  I haven't done it.  Perhaps someone else knows.  It looks solid though.  Ila Nocked is a definitive, and I would ensure it is up 100% of the time via your chant sheet.  

EDIT: yeah, as Lasci is pointing out, as a tank you want max Perception and Resolve for sure.  You don't need Con.  Dex isn't a requirement either.  You will swing slowly because of your tank talents and sword and board, and you won't be doing damage often with Invocations so Might isn't a necessity either.  Intellect increase AoE and Duration for Invocations like stuns and Charms while increasing AoE on your Chants.  

Edited April 3, 2015 by Ganrich

[Odd Hermit]

First of all, maximize your Int unless you are going for a tank build, where you'll want to focus on the defensive attributes. The Chanters chants are much too good to not take advantage of the huge AOE radius otherwise.

 

For something warrior-mage like, you might want to consider making a chanter that mostly relies on the damage chants, even though the level 1 chant is unimpressive, as it is thematic as all hell and, later on, quite useful as well. The Chanter should in this case obviously fight ranged from the middle of your formation, probably with the largest gun you can get your hands on and two-hander in his spare weapon set for when enemies break the front line.

 

If you use a custom formation that is five deep (tanks rank 1, offtanks 2, chanter and other non-squishies 3, squishies 5) and you have high int, your AOE radius will overlap both your entire team and most enemies engaging your tanks, which is really helpful: You'll be providing constant endurance regeneration to your party while changing between chants to either buff or debuff as appropriate and firing away with the weapon of your choice. For such a character you can maximize MIG, DEX, and INT by tanking CON - you can even get halfway decent RES conversation options if you are also willing to dump PER to boost RES.

 

...or you can use more sane non-min-maxed stats, but hey, it is an option.

 

...or you can use the diametrically opposite approach and make the Chanter an excellent tank or offtank - it is an amazingly versatile class due to the chants and starting with high deflection. It is damn hard to go wrong with the chants, because they are almost universally good, do exactly what they say, and do it all the time without player input.

 

I'm gonna disagree here/give an alternate perspective.

 

Especially with Ila Knocked getting nerfed and Beloved Spirits getting nerfed. I probably won't even take Ancient Memory post-patch.

 

Chant debuffs may be the way to go, and you don't need high int. Or you can focus on using a few strong low level chants to build invocations faster for summoning.

 

Until Int gives linger, I think max int I'd put on a chanter is maybe 15, no higher, and maybe less.

[Daemonjax]

 

Until Int gives linger, I think max int I'd put on a chanter is maybe 15, no higher, and maybe less.

 

 

I really thought int did increase linger, but I just double-checked and you're right... it doesn't.

[Keithustus]

Awesome thread. Still trying to optimize attributes and talents so this stuff is fantastic.

[pi2repsion]

What can I say? I am a sucker for the huge chanting radius I get with 18-20 Int on ranged non-tanking chanters as it means less issues with positioning in combat and maximum versatility with applying respectively buffing and debuffing chants (which is one of the reasons that I consider Kana to be the best of the companions with respect to stat build).... but I can certainly see the argument for optimizing a chanter for less versatility, going with less intelligence, and placing him where you want the shorter range auras to work (e.g. covering melee and enemies or covering ranged and melee when it when are closer to ranged)

[Crystal]

Thank you for the corrections, with the new skills information I've done this draft:

 

Stealth        4 (+12)

Athletics      5 (+24)

Lore            4 (+2C +2N) 6 (+3)

Mechanics  1 (+1C) 6 (+24)

Survival       2 (+3)

Total skill points 66

 

Assuming that the max skill level is 6, am I right? And I've calculated double skill points for each level: 1(+1), 2(+3), 3(+6)... is that how it works?

 

And a few questions more:

1) Does Might improves melee and ranged damage as well?

2) Having MIG 18, DEX 10, would be the same as MIG14, DEX14 because I will do less damage, but faster.

3) I've read that the experience is shared trough the party, so the max level 12 is reachable alone or in party? 

[Fimconte]

There is no hard-cap on skill levels.  
Highest Mechanics I've seen is like 8-9 though and stealth 5-6 (I get this on entire party) lets you walk very close to almost all enemies.

Might improves all damage, melee, ranged, ability, spell.  

MIG vs Dex isn't actually that clear cut.  
Because Dex affects both attack speed and recovery speed and also ability casting speed (spells/physical abilities).  
OTOH, High Mig may let you punch through DR, but if you roll with estoc/stilettos, then you shouldn't really have issues.

Personally, for melee with high perception, I'd go for Dex, because faster attacks = more interrupts as well.  

Max level is easily doable with 6 player party.  
Going solo is faster, but considerably harder. 

Edited April 3, 2015 by Fimconte

[Noctaem]

I found this guide that contains multiple different builds and styles of play.  I think it would be valuable to share.

 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZP8blpf4qps

[Odd Hermit]

There is no hard-cap on skill levels.  

Highest Mechanics I've seen is like 8-9 though and stealth 5-6 (I get this on entire party) lets you walk very close to almost all enemies.

 

Might improves all damage, melee, ranged, ability, spell.  

 

MIG vs Dex isn't actually that clear cut.  

Because Dex affects both attack speed and recovery speed and also ability casting speed (spells/physical abilities).  

OTOH, High Mig may let you punch through DR, but if you roll with estoc/stilettos, then you shouldn't really have issues.

 

Personally, for melee with high perception, I'd go for Dex, because faster attacks = more interrupts as well.  

 

Max level is easily doable with 6 player party.  

Going solo is faster, but considerably harder. 

 

I've found mechanic checks for 11 and I think even 12. 11 for certain.

 

Also once patch hits, you're getting 50% rather than 25% bonus XP for solo. It'll be good small parties too, or anyone looking to eek out more XP by doing easier stuff with smaller groups. Or going around lockpicking everything.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Odd Hermit

[Zarkhes]

I dont think he should max out INT.I made a same mistake.There is a thread explaining all, but basicly you cant reach both fronts with your chant even on max int, and durration of linger also remain mostly unaffected.And he dont have that many stunt invocation that would require max out INT

1st, create 2 tanks of your chosing.Might be fighter and paladin.So you dont need an off tank.If some mobs break trough, you got your summon spells wich are great btw.And great thing about summons, is that they are unaffected by atributes and last till they die.I would choose phantom.

2nd, make chanter ranged.MAX out MIG/DEX.Give him arquebuse, solider tallent, gunnery (also that two handed talent dont work for ranged).Skip healing talents.What you be focusing at is buffing ranged speed of all back row of ranged dps with Ila Knocked chant (And i didnt seen any nerf in 1,03 patch list ).Leave CON as it is,

The rest is basicly up to you.Chanter isnt hard when it comes to building...or playing :D

Edit : Neat thing about rannge chanter is that you wont be chanting so many (usualy 1 or2) chants.No debufs, no long chants.So you rank up quickly and you can use those invokation sooner in battle.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Zarkhes