Stealth WTF

[Brimsurfer]

Why does the whole party have to go in stealth every time and if one of them is detected then all of them are detected even the ones that are well hidden completely out of sight.

 

My main character is a rogue, i go in, in stealth mode, position myself nicely behind enemies (I am still hidden), then I rush in with my warrior and mage and as soon as enemy sees them, my rogues stealth is also cancelled. why does this happen?

 

Is it a glitch or is it working as intended?

[Mdalton31]

It's hopefully being fixed to individual stealth

[sean10mm]

Pretty sure it's working as intended, like it or not.

 

The idea is that your rogue breaks party stealth with a sneak attack on the most valuable target.

[bleakcabaler]

Pretty sure it's working as intended, like it or not.

 

The idea is that your rogue breaks party stealth with a sneak attack on the most valuable target.

 

and dies 2 seconds later, in any kind of challenging fight when backstabbing a key enemy would actually matter

 

Endless Paths are a nightmare with a rogue, unless you make it ranged, not to mention dual wield (staple rogueish combat style) is terrible compared to two handed because most enemies who dont die from one hit have a high DR

Edited April 1, 2015 by bleakcabaler

[Amentep]

I think the goal with a dual wield rogue might be to bump up speed and use single handed weapons with good interrupts to help keep the opponent from hitting you as much while allowing you to deal as much damage as quickly as you can.

 

Could be wrong though, I'm terrible at builds.

[bleakcabaler]

no, if an enemy is hitting you, it means you'll be dead in few seconds unless you use invisibility which are 2x/rest

[Oxford_Guy]

It's hopefully being fixed to individual stealth

 

I sure hope so!

[Emptiness]

 

Pretty sure it's working as intended, like it or not.

 

The idea is that your rogue breaks party stealth with a sneak attack on the most valuable target.

 

and dies 2 seconds later, in any kind of challenging fight when backstabbing a key enemy would actually matter

 

Endless Paths are a nightmare with a rogue, unless you make it ranged, not to mention dual wield (staple rogueish combat style) is terrible compared to two handed because most enemies who dont die from one hit have a high DR

 

 

Give your fighter high stealth too and the fighter and rogue can attack together.  Then the rogue won't be facing the entire enemy team alone at the start of the fight.

[Amentep]

no, if an enemy is hitting you, it means you'll be dead in few seconds unless you use invisibility which are 2x/rest

The point is a high interrupt should mean the enemy isn't hitting you (as much), you're interrupting its attack. Probably wise to throw some points to constitution at any PC who wades into melee too.

 

You could also switch weapons, shoot with arrow, engage with fighter, then go melee with rogue.

 

Unless I'm totally wrong, which I could be.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Amentep

[KnightOfVirtue]

It's hopefully being fixed to individual stealth

With the way the stealth mechanic works this wouldn't make much sense, even with a lot of points in stealth you aren't going to get even close to backstabbing distance without being "revealed". At best you'd see rogue get a buff to their invisiblity skill.

[Mlatimudan]

engage with fighter, flank and then backstab with rogue, pepper with debuffs to taste, voilà

[aiqidar]

 

Pretty sure it's working as intended, like it or not.

 

The idea is that your rogue breaks party stealth with a sneak attack on the most valuable target.

 

and dies 2 seconds later, in any kind of challenging fight when backstabbing a key enemy would actually matter

 

Endless Paths are a nightmare with a rogue, unless you make it ranged, not to mention dual wield (staple rogueish combat style) is terrible compared to two handed because most enemies who dont die from one hit have a high DR

 

 

It kind of works if your rogue's using a ranged weapon. The idea of sneaking into a room containing multiple opponents and stabbing one of them always felt a bit absurd to me so I never really did it in IE games either, unless I was using an actual invisibility spell.

 

I don't really like the "open with the rogue" strategy either, mostly for role-playing reasons. In most situations, I feel like no matter how stealthy my rogue, he would almost certainly be seen at the distances the game allows us to work with (especially if there are multiple enemies). My preferred strategy would be to open with my fighter and then launch a sneak attack on one of the people who are being distracted by him. The game doesn't let us do that, which is why they need to change it back to individual stealth.

Edited April 1, 2015 by aiqidar

[Katarack21]

Don't backstab from stealth mode. Backtab from invisibility using Shadowing Beyond. That's twice per rest, so save it for big bad mofos. For plain old sneak attack, you can use stealth to attack from.

Either way, you avoid repercussions with Escape, Coordinated Positioning, etc.

[Icezera]

This isn't Baldur's Gate, Dragon Age, IWD, or other rpg. It's a new system. If you don't like, it you don't have to use it. I personally love the new stealth system and like it for what it is.

 

And as a poster mentioned, rogues are not meant to start fights and realistically, that makes total sense. If a guys pops up out of nowhere and attacks a group of people, he is going to be quickly dead. Rather, stealth works so that your entire party can get closer and engage at optimal distances, whether it be close enough for melee or for a ranged volley into melee while the rogue can flank.

If you take the time to actually learn the system, it works very well.

[Daemonjax]

The party stealth mechanics makes the rogue's class defining feature (backstab) useless outside of twice per rest.  

 

Currently, it's a very weak class.

 

I've read that the devs wanted to make to make stealth work individually, but ran out of time (or something like that).  So it wasn't a design decision, but a compromise based on available resources.

 

In short: don't pick rogue as your main character.  Just pick cipher.

 

Hopefully, individual stealth will be patched in, or maybe we can mod shadowing beyond into a per encounter ability.  That won't fix stealth being very sub-optimal to raise on a rogue, but at least it would make the rogue a decent main character choice.  

 

With that being said, the game isn't hard enough on normal for the class or build of your main character to matter, so you can just have him/her sit in safety during combat and twiddle their thumbs (heh, I just realized that I described the Chanter's class feature).

Edited April 1, 2015 by Daemonjax

[vyvexthorne]

I'm still kind of unsure what exactly stealth does. Having more doesn't seem to make me any more stealthy than my compatriots who have none.

[Katarack21]

I'm still kind of unsure what exactly stealth does. Having more doesn't seem to make me any more stealthy than my compatriots who have none.

Higher stealth should increase the time it takes for your circle to fill with yellow and then red when you are stealthed and being observed.

[Daemonjax]

 

I'm still kind of unsure what exactly stealth does. Having more doesn't seem to make me any more stealthy than my compatriots who have none.

Higher stealth should increase the time it takes for your circle to fill with yellow and then red when you are stealthed and being observed.

 

 

Yeah, you can test it yourself using console commands to raise a character to level 12 and raise his/her stealth to 6+ to test it out.  It does make a big a difference.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Daemonjax

[GreyFox]

Who knows what they were thinking when they designed that....it's the worst stealth mechanic I've ever seen.

 

It really needs to be done right...not sure how in the bloody hell someone thought entire party stealth was a good idea...then add in the searching feature to it...durr wat...?

 

Search button...or do it passively

Stealth button...

separate....

srsly.....

[Katarack21]

Who knows what they were thinking when they designed that....it's the worst stealth mechanic I've ever seen.

 

It really needs to be done right...not sure how in the bloody hell someone thought entire party stealth was a good idea...then add in the searching feature to it...durr wat...?

 

Search button...or do it passively

Stealth button...

separate....

srsly.....

It was a time constraint. They were going to fix it, but decided to focus on other bugs since it doesn't prevent stealth gameplay. I read a post somewhere around here where they were planning to change it in an upcoming patch--not the one next, but the one after that.

[Lephys]

Yeah, you don't actually have to be "in-stealth" to sneak attack. An attack from your Rogue within the first 2 seconds of combat is a Sneak Attack. Basically, it's you catching the enemy off-guard. So, you can stealth around to very close to a foe, with higher stealth, then start the fight with your other peeps, and sneak attack a "straggler" foe (in regard to the direction the rest of the foes are running). That should be possible in at least some situations (a melee sneak attack, that is), if you do it right.

 

But, yeah, if you planned on sneak-attacking one foe in a group of foes, then somehow not being engaged in melee combat afterward, the whole "My Rogue's going to go backstab them, guys!" idea is kind of silly. He is? that's great. What then?! Why wouldn't they all hear Gary the Goblin scream in agony from a knife in his back, turn around, and swarm your lone Rogue? Is he STILL invisible? What is he, an apparition?!

[Vanant]

You can´t expect to keep using exploits and broken gameplay mechanics from other games. PoE has a different concept of stealth, more realistic, I´d say, but not perfect. The system has to be individualized to work as originally intended.

[Matt516]

Does everyone here realize that sneak attack always triggers on the Rogue's first attack within the first 2 seconds of combat, regardless of whether or not you are engaging from stealth? Just.... thought I'd point that out.

 

Are you sure you're not talking about Backstab, which does actually have something to do with stealth?

[Akos]

It's not like your companions were really doing anything with their skill points anyway; why not just give everyone in your party a decent stealth stat? Around 5 seems to be good enough for them to be close enough so that your Rogue isn't by himself when the fight starts. Around 5 is also good enough to carry your party around an enemy without them becoming alerted to your presence if you just want to sneak by sometimes. 

Once they're at 5 you can go back to pumping whatever it is companions do with skill points.