My Feedback on the Game after 50 hours.

[Abloec]

I have been playing RPGs since BG, NWN, IWD and I enjoyed this game for the most part, I lost interest in it around lvl 10.

 

Here are my issues with the game that made me lose interest.

 

1. Progression falls off pretty quickly - I thought about this and when I think about it you get to choose around 12 things through the whole game to alter your character except spell casters. At least in NWN and so on you had a robust amount of feats to choose from / skills that tbh mattered a whole lot more than this game, you could lvl up stats every 4 levels. I got tired of leveling up my monk and only having a single choice for what to level up.

 

2. Character builds don't differ much - With the stats how they are you can either go glass cannon/tank/rounded, the stat system in this game is fairly annoying as it makes class feel very much the same. You no longer have a dodging machine of a monk/rogue its all deflection and DR. When you can make the perfect tank by dropping Might and Dex to as low as they go and have an uber tank I find that pretty hilarious. The lack of gear restrictions make the game feel bland, like you don't have to work towards something to wear that kickass looking armor, which takes away from the feeling of accomplishment for me.

 

3. Eder and Pallegina - I do not understand why the developers made companions the wrong way since fighters are better at damage and paladins are better at tanking.

 

4. Stronghold - I found this awesome in the beginning, but that fell off quick. Your stronghold is the only road from Gilded Vale to Defiance Bay and you get like 2 visitors in a week. I think I had a total of 2 raids, 2 good visitors, 3 bad visitors, and 2 recruitables in the timeframe it took to fully upgrade my Stronghold. The adventure system is seriously just a pick a companions you don't want in your party and send them for a limited time on an always successful adventure for free stuff. The Stronghold makes me think of a simple facebook game. I personally think they could of used the time they dedicated to the stronghold on making the character system better.

 

5. Pathfinding - I have had to many moments where I will tell a unit to attack this specific mob and he will run back and forth behind my other front liners because he can't go straight through them, so I have to take the time to click move him in a circle around the fight happening to attack a mage in the back line. In just straight up navigation through zones though its spot on.

 

6. Rep with cities - I liked this part of the game but there were a few quests that made me go wahhh? Specifically the side quest where you have to get the cargo from the "looters" at the broken bridge, if you recover the cargo you get a negative impact on rep.

 

7. Voice Overs - I could personally care less about voice overs but don't do what you did here. Its annoying when sometimes your companions talk and other times they don't. What I wanted is everything main story related voiced and all companion dialog voiced. You already had the voice actors for them.

 

Anyway for now that is all I can think of, my final thoughts on this is just that this game is worth what I paid for in comparison to certain 8 hour 60 dollar games out there. It still does make me think of a simplified version of the old RPG games though and sadly that takes away from people who really loved specializing their character/s.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Abloec

[PaintingInAir]

I think the stronghold visitors are just the people that are actually staying at the stronghold, not everyone that passes through.

[PrimeJunta]

1. Progression falls off pretty quickly - I thought about this and when I think about it you get to choose around 12 things through the whole game to alter your character except spell casters. At least in BG and so on you had a robust amount of feats to choose from / skills that tbh mattered a whole lot more than this game, you could lvl up stats every 4 levels. I got tired of leveling up my monk and only having a single choice for what to level up.

Uh... which BG are you talking about? Advancement in AD&D is almost 100% on rails. All you get to do is allocate a weapon proficiency pip every 3/4/5 levels, plus assign rogue skill points if you're a rogue. With BG's level cap, that means a grand total of three pips for a fighter, who gets most of them.

 

2. Character builds don't differ much - With the stats how they are you can either go glass cannon/tank/rounded, the stat system in this game is fairly annoying as it makes class feel very much the same. You no longer have a dodging machine of a monk/rogue its all deflection and DR.

Deflection is dodging.

 

When you can make the perfect tank by dropping Might and Dex to as low as they go and have an uber tank I find that pretty hilarious. The lack of gear restrictions make the game feel bland, like you don't have to work towards something to wear that kickass looking armor, which takes away from the feeling of accomplishment for me.

That's a legitimate preference. One I disagree with, but legitimate. (Gear restrictions in particular -- it's a lazy way of balancing difficulty when you're providing too much too strong gear.)

 

3. Eder and Pallegina - I do not understand why the developers made companions the wrong way since fighters are better at damage and paladins are better at tanking.

Not in this game they're not!

 

4. Stronghold - I found this awesome in the beginning, but that fell off quick. Your stronghold is the only road from Gilded Vale to Defiance Bay and you get like 2 visitors in a week. I think I had a total of 2 raids, 2 good visitors, 3 bad visitors, and 2 recruitables in the timeframe it took to fully upgrade my Stronghold. The adventure system is seriously just a pick a companions you don't want in your party and send them for a limited time on an always successful adventure for free stuff. The Stronghold makes me think of a simple facebook game. I personally think they could of used the time they dedicated to the stronghold on making the character system better.

Yeah, it's a side dish. It's kind of a fun side dish though, I'm enjoying pimping it out.

 

5. Pathfinding - I have had to many moments where I will tell a unit to attack this specific mob and he will run back and forth behind my other front liners because he can't go straight through them, so I have to take the time to click move him in a circle around the fight happening to attack a mage in the back line. In just straight up navigation through zones though its spot on.

Yep, also characters often don't attack the character you tell them to attack. This needs fixing. They should only stop if engaged.

 

6. Rep with cities - I liked this part of the game but there were a few quests that made me go wahhh? Specifically the side quest where you have to get the cargo from the "looters" at the broken bridge, if you recover the cargo you get a negative impact on rep.

 

7. Voice Overs - I could personally care less about voice overs but don't do what you did here. Its annoying when sometimes your companions talk and other times they don't. What I wanted is everything main story related voiced and all companion dialog voiced. You already had the voice actors for them.

Strongly disagree here. Limited voice is the reason we have so much and so good writing in the game. The partial voice acting does give the characters personality. I very much like it this way.

 

Anyway for now that is all I can think of, my final thoughts on this is just that this game is worth what I paid for in comparison to certain 8 hour 60 dollar games out there. It still does make me think of a simplified version of the old RPG games though and sadly that takes away from people who really loved specializing their character/s.

I don't see how this is simplified compared to the IE games. The character mechanics are way richer. The spell system is smaller and less interesting IMO, but you never even brought that up.

[Abloec]

Yea sure, but it doesn't show. I mean you collect taxes, but who are paying the taxes, I see no villages or NPCs minus the merchants and hired guards.

[Bryy]

3. Eder and Pallegina - I do not understand why the developers made companions the wrong way since fighters are better at damage and paladins are better at tanking.

 

7. Voice Overs - I could personally care less about voice overs but don't do what you did here. Its annoying when sometimes your companions talk and other times they don't. What I wanted is everything main story related voiced and all companion dialog voiced. You already had the voice actors for them.

Well, the developers can make their characters any way they like because they sort of made the game.

 

VO costs money. 

[Abloec]

Uh... which BG are you talking about? Advancement in AD&D is almost 100% on rails. All you get to do is allocate a weapon proficiency pip every 3/4/5 levels, plus assign rogue skill points if you're a rogue. With BG's level cap, that means a grand total of three pips for a fighter, who gets most of them.

 

 I shouldn't of used BG as the example, been to long since I have played it. Went back and looked over it and it does have less than PoE, I was thinking more along the lines of NWN.

 

Deflection is dodging.

 

You missed the point, the slippery rogues and monks are no more because of how simplified the stats are now. It's all in might now. Big heavy armored tanks that just take the hits tend to have high deflect so if you consider deflection as dodge than the tanks wearing full plate mail now dodge more than the rogues. See what I am getting at?

 

That's a legitimate preference. One I disagree with, but legitimate. (Gear restrictions in particular -- it's a lazy way of balancing difficulty when you're providing too much too strong gear.)

 

You are saying Gear restrictions are a lazy way of balancing difficulty? I really don't see that, I can't see a rogue being in full platemail. It just makes no sense to me.

 

Not in this game they're not!

 

 

From everything I have heard about paladins is they are mediocre at best in damage compared to fighter or any other damage class. Its best just to have them go tank.

 

Strongly disagree here. Limited voice is the reason we have so much and so good writing in the game. The partial voice acting does give the characters personality. I very much like it this way.

 

 

I wasn't against giving them voice, I am against how theres no follow through with the voice. Its annoying when one part of a conversation is voiced and the next part isnt.

I don't see how this is simplified compared to the IE games. The character mechanics are way richer. The spell system is smaller and less interesting IMO, but you never even brought that up. 

 

 

I don't see how the character mechanics are way richer, explain to me how they are. The only mechanic I saw for the Monk was the new wounds mechanic other than that theres nothing. Rangers have the same as always a pet which is buggy and boring.

[PrimeJunta]

 

Deflection is dodging.

You missed the point, the slippery rogues and monks are no more because of how simplified the stats are now. It's all in might now. Big heavy armored tanks that just take the hits tend to have high deflect so if you consider deflection as dodge than the tanks wearing full plate mail now dodge more than the rogues. See what I am getting at?

 

 

Full plate mail doesn't contribute to Deflection. It only contributes to DR. Monks have the highest base deflection in the game, the rest comes from attributes, modals, and shields. What was your point again?

 

You are saying Gear restrictions are a lazy way of balancing difficulty? I really don't see that, I can't see a rogue being in full platemail. It just makes no sense to me.

That's a legitimate preference. It's different from mine, but it's legitimate. I prefer a system that doesn't impose artificial restrictions on classes. I mean, why wouldn't a rogue be able to wear plate mail? Having it impose penalties on stealth, for example, would be totally understandable, but what magical force prevents him from wearing it in the first place?

 

From everything I have heard about paladins is they are mediocre at best in damage compared to fighter or any other damage class. Its best just to have them go tank.

That's not true. It depends on how you skew the build. Fighters can become better tanks or better damagers than paladins. Paladins are leader/support types; the main contribution is the aura which buffs everyone in the party.

 

I wasn't against giving them voice, I am against how theres no follow through with the voice. Its annoying when one part of a conversation is voiced and the next part isnt.

If the game was fully voiced, they would have had to lock down the dialog months before release. They wanted to be able to continue working on it until the last minute. Partial voice allows this. It's a good trade-off from where I'm at.

 

They did this fully aware that some people wouldn't like it, which is why they were clear about it from the start.

 

I don't see how the character mechanics are way richer, explain to me how they are. The only mechanic I saw for the Monk was the new wounds mechanic other than that theres nothing. Rangers have the same as always a pet which is buggy and boring.

I just did and you conceded the point: AD&D character mechanics are dead simple and almost completely on-rails.

 

If you're talking about D&D3, that's a whole 'nuther conversation. IMO P:E's system avoids most of the biggest problems D&D3 has but D&D3 is much richer and broader -- no surprise there considering that it's a much older system.

[Abloec]

 

 

Full plate mail doesn't contribute to Deflection. It only contributes to DR. Monks have the highest base deflection in the game, the rest comes from attributes, modals, and shields. What was your point again?

I wasn't saying it does but fact is unless a monk/rogue is planning on rolling tank they will not get any of the deflection based stats, Per/Resolve.

 

 

 

That's a legitimate preference. It's different from mine, but it's legitimate. I prefer a system that doesn't impose artificial restrictions on classes. I mean, why wouldn't a rogue be able to wear plate mail? Having it impose penalties on stealth, for example, would be totally understandable, but what magical force prevents him from wearing it in the first place?

Like you said penalties on stealth, penalties on mobility, to me what you are talking about is just a fighter who is wielding daggers. A rogue wearing full plate will not having the mobility to pull off precise attacks which is what a rogue is. Precise deadly attacks. 

 

 

 

That's not true. It depends on how you skew the build. Fighters can become better tanks or better damagers than paladins. Paladins are leader/support types; the main contribution is the aura which buffs everyone in the party.

 

If thats the case than ok, I didn't roll a pally and a fighter.

 

 

 

If the game was fully voiced, they would have had to lock down the dialog months before release. They wanted to be able to continue working on it until the last minute. Partial voice allows this. It's a good trade-off from where I'm at.

 

They did this fully aware that some people wouldn't like it, which is why they were clear about it from the start.

I didn't say I wanted it fully voiced, I just didn't want it having VO and no VO in the same conversation. It's annoying.

 

 

 

I just did and you conceded the point: AD&D character mechanics are dead simple and almost completely on-rails.

 

If you're talking about D&D3, that's a whole 'nuther conversation. IMO P:E's system avoids most of the biggest problems D&D3 has but D&D3 is much richer and broader -- no surprise there considering that it's a much older system. 

Uhh no you didn't, and if you are talking about the new wounds mechanic, you have to consider what they dropped for it. The monks in the DnD universe had for one hand based weapons which there are none in this game, 2 they had specific orders which determined what type of monk they were, 3 they were wis based for their dmg rather than might spam like everything else. My mindset is based on 3 but regardless theres no excuse for it being so simplified.

[PrimeJunta]

 

Full plate mail doesn't contribute to Deflection. It only contributes to DR. Monks have the highest base deflection in the game, the rest comes from attributes, modals, and shields. What was your point again?

I wasn't saying it does but fact is unless a monk/rogue is planning on rolling tank they will not get any of the deflection based stats, Per/Resolve.

 

Why not?

 

 

That's a legitimate preference. It's different from mine, but it's legitimate. I prefer a system that doesn't impose artificial restrictions on classes. I mean, why wouldn't a rogue be able to wear plate mail? Having it impose penalties on stealth, for example, would be totally understandable, but what magical force prevents him from wearing it in the first place?

Like you said penalties on stealth, penalties on mobility, to me what you are talking about is just a fighter who is wielding daggers. A rogue wearing full plate will not having the mobility to pull off precise attacks which is what a rogue is. Precise deadly attacks.

 

Full plate already imposes a penalty to action speed. Rogues are subject to it just like everyone else, and their DPS suffers. What was your problem again?

 

I didn't say I wanted it fully voiced, I just didn't want it having VO and no VO in the same conversation. It's annoying.

Fair 'nuff. In a perfect world with unlimited budgets and schedules, sure, maybe, but in the world we live in, I prefer the tradeoff we have.

 

Uhh no you didn't, and if you are talking about the new wounds mechanic, you have to consider what they dropped for it.

I wasn't talking about the new wounds mechanic. I was talking about the general character mechanics compared to AD&D. You already conceded that BG was a bad example and you should've said NWN2 instead. I wasn't discussing NWN2.

 

The monks in the DnD universe had for one hand based weapons which there are none in this game, 2 they had specific orders which determined what type of monk they were, 3 they were wis based for their dmg rather than might spam like everything else. My mindset is based on 3 but regardless theres no excuse for it being so simplified.

Most of your complaints seem to boil down to "This isn't like D&D therefore it's bad." I can't really argue with that, because obviously this isn' like D&D and if you're a huuuuge fan of D&D, well, that's personal preference again.

[crabe]

Most of your complaints seem to boil down to "This isn't like D&D therefore it's bad." I can't really argue with that, because obviously this isn' like D&D and if you're a huuuuge fan of D&D, well, that's personal preference again.

 

 

Exactly. Most of the complaints I read about the RPG system seem to be like "it's not like in D&D". That and the fact that the game asks for choices and decisions.

[archangel979]

in NWN monks got AC and saves from Wisdom not damage. You could later get a feat that let you use Wisdom for attack bonus but never damage. Damage always came from Strenght.

[Abloec]

 

 

I wasn't saying it does but fact is unless a monk/rogue is planning on rolling tank they will not get any of the deflection based stats, Per/Resolve.

 

Why not?

Because you would be gimping your party if you did.

 

 

 

Full plate already imposes a penalty to action speed. Rogues are subject to it just like everyone else, and their DPS suffers. What was your problem again?

My issue is because heavy armor limits how someone can move, in mobility and how they would attack. To give an example do you really believe that someone wearing full plate would be able to utilize the shadowing beyond ability in game?

 

 

 

Most of your complaints seem to boil down to "This isn't like D&D therefore it's bad." I can't really argue with that, because obviously this isn' like D&D and if you're a huuuuge fan of D&D, well, that's personal preference again. 

It isn't just D&D, look at Divinity Original Sin the classes are more in depth in that game than this. My mind set is that of D&D because of the fact that theres a lot of CRPGs based on DnD rulesets but using the excuse of its better than a ruleset that was designed almost 40 years ago is giving them way to much leeway than they deserve. They have a lot more stuff to get ideas for classes from. Theres no excuse for such simplified stats and classes. Just to give examples, for the ranger have the pet level up with you rather than it being static.

[Katarack21]

I'm 42 hours in. Here's my perceptions.

The mechanics in this game are incredibly deep, rich, and varied. I'm playing a cipher; my companion Grieving Mother is also a cipher. Our stats, builds, and talents are different--and we play completely different. I do high damage over a very wide area but I'm squishie as hell; she does less damage over a smaller area but is significantly less squishie. I often have her as mid-range, doing direct damage and direct status effects and occasionally ripping into people with her dagger and hatchet, while I stand far in the back doing big, fat AoE's and shooting people with a blunderbuss. Exact same class; completely different kind of character.

[Abloec]

in NWN monks got AC and saves from Wisdom not damage. You could later get a feat that let you use Wisdom for attack bonus but never damage. Damage always came from Strenght.

Yes you are correct, but thats part of my point. The game is so simplified that accuracy is based on leveling up and feats that you take, no stats affect acc. Stats affect deflection but for the monk you can go 2 builds, Str/Dex/Con or Dex/Per/Res.

[PrimeJunta]

@Abloec: I still don't understand your complaint about the rogue. Rogues shouldn't wear full plate because... why? Shadowing Beyond is a supernatural ability. It's not stealth, it's invisibility. Why should what you're wearing limit that? And as to the speed penalties, they're already in. If you think armor should limit the "precision" of attacks, then why would fighters be immune to this penalty?

 

As to the deflection bonuses, you seem to be complaining that rogues are squishy unless you build them not to be squishy. Is this what you're saying? If so, where is the problem? Do you feel rogues should always be squishy, or that they should be as good at not getting hurt as a fighter in full plate even though they're in a T-shirt? Or something else?

 

I haven't played D:OS so I can't comment on that. As to the ranger pet leveling up, sure, why not -- that would make sense.

 

Edit: re accuracy in stats, there's a reason they removed it. Accuracy is so crucial as it determines not only to-hit chance but crit chance that having it in the stats turned DEX into a pump stat for everyone; low-DEX builds just weren't viable except as priests. The alternative would have been to nerf the DEX bonus to insignificance which wouldn't have been much fun. It's contentious though; Sensuki and Bester are modding it back in.

Edited March 30, 2015 by PrimeJunta

[Abloec]

I'm 42 hours in. Here's my perceptions.

 

The mechanics in this game are incredibly deep, rich, and varied. I'm playing a cipher; my companion Grieving Mother is also a cipher. Our stats, builds, and talents are different--and we play completely different. I do high damage over a very wide area but I'm squishie as hell; she does less damage over a smaller area but is significantly less squishie. I often have her as mid-range, doing direct damage and direct status effects and occasionally ripping into people with her dagger and hatchet, while I stand far in the back doing big, fat AoE's and shooting people with a blunderbuss. Exact same class; completely different kind of character.

Ill give you varied, but deep and rich I have to disagree. There are no skills that can combine with other classes skills, besides lowering certain resists. Deep to me means that an ability can be used for something other than what the developers specify its used for. For example in Divinity Original Sin you can use the rain spell to amplify electric damage/abilities.

[Abloec]

@Abloec: I still don't understand your complaint about the rogue. Rogues shouldn't wear full plate because... why? Shadowing Beyond is a supernatural ability. It's not stealth, it's invisibility. Why should what you're wearing limit that? And as to the speed penalties, they're already in. If you think armor should limit the "precision" of attacks, then why would fighters be immune to this penalty?

 

As to the deflection bonuses, you seem to be complaining that rogues are squishy unless you build them not to be squishy. Is this what you're saying? If so, where is the problem? Do you feel rogues should always be squishy, or that they should be as good at not getting hurt as a fighter in full plate even though they're in a T-shirt? Or something else?

 

I haven't played D:OS so I can't comment on that. As to the ranger pet leveling up, sure, why not -- that would make sense.

 

Edit: re accuracy in stats, there's a reason they removed it. Accuracy is so crucial as it determines not only to-hit chance but crit chance that having it in the stats turned DEX into a pump stat for everyone; low-DEX builds just weren't viable except as priests. The alternative would have been to nerf the DEX bonus to insignificance which wouldn't have been much fun. It's contentious though; Sensuki and Bester are modding it back in.

Fighters have the ability to crit because of their strength, rogues have their ability to crit from precise attacks. Anyway I am just going to stop with this discussion because its obvious that my mind-frame is cemented on rogues being a specific way and you are more accepting on different builds.

[TheisEjsing]

Rogue's do bonus damage to status effected enemies. There's a combination right there. Besides, why would you build your monk as a untouchable tank? It goes against the basic idea of the class. 

[Abloec]

Rogue's do bonus damage to status effected enemies. There's a combination right there. Besides, why would you build your monk as a untouchable tank? It goes against the basic idea of the class. 

I wouldn't but its a viable build, but the basic idea of a monk is totally different than the monk in this game. Personally I think they should of just renamed the monk as bruiser since it would make more sense. Monks are graceful fighters and the wound mechanic totally changes that. Also the whole rogues do bonus dmg to status effected enemies is a specific type of feat. I am talking about abilities that combine as a secondary affect rather than the primary affect.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Abloec

[TheisEjsing]

So let me get this straight. You're offended that they took a concept of which you have a preconception, and changed it into something else than you expected. That's not very constructive criticism.

[archangel979]

 

in NWN monks got AC and saves from Wisdom not damage. You could later get a feat that let you use Wisdom for attack bonus but never damage. Damage always came from Strenght.

Yes you are correct, but thats part of my point. The game is so simplified that accuracy is based on leveling up and feats that you take, no stats affect acc. Stats affect deflection but for the monk you can go 2 builds, Str/Dex/Con or Dex/Per/Res.

 

Accuracy was removed from stats during beta because everyone would max out that Stat as in PoE it also affects critical hits and spells and everything. So now you can make two builds as you don't need to max out the stat that does not give accuracy.

 

And in NWN, Monks had only one build. Max out Wisdom and Dex and take that feat. Or max out Dex first and then wisdom and use Weapon Finess.

 

BTW, I agree with some of your point like Stronghold and Pathfinding.

 

I found a couple of irritating stuff with engagement as well

Edited March 30, 2015 by archangel979

[Katarack21]

Rogues get extra damage against all kinds of status effects. A rogue and a cipher, working together, can get some crazy amounts of damage going. Ciphers actually have more than one power that targets an ally, and effects enemies from there--the one that does pierce damage and pushes enemies back is one of my favorite, as I use it to save my priest and mage from enemies that broke engagement all the time so that my fighter and barbarian can re-take it (the fighters Into the Fray works well with this).

Edited March 30, 2015 by Katarack21

[Abloec]

So let me get this straight. You're offended that they took a concept of which you have a preconception, and changed it into something else than you expected. That's not very constructive criticism.

Offended? No, my overall issue has nothing to do with the monk itself. Just the games overall lack of progression and depth. They tried to reinvent the monk, ok no problem but back it up. This is part of text that is in the game, "Monks belong to a variety of fighting orders that have sprung up in Ixamitl and the Eastern Reach over the past few centuries." Why did they not include you selecting a specific order in the game, like they did for paladins/clerics. That would of provided more depth but you are left with no order.

[PrimeJunta]

@Abloec Now that there is a legitimate criticism. It would be a nice improvement for the monk, like picking a god for a priest or an order for a paladin. Perhaps they'll implement it in an expansion.

 

Framing that as "therefore the character system lacks in depth and progression" is kind of a non sequitur though.

[TheisEjsing]

I agree. It would have added depth. And it would probably be cool aswell. They didn't have the budget for it this time, maybe in a second installment, they'll go deeper with stuff like that.