Highlander Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 As a trans PoC this stuff makes me super angry. I literally lost interest in this product and i regret to spend even a cent on it. My desire to play this game vanished and im getting sick even hearing the name of the game or people talking about it. Im going to my lawyer, i really want my money back. Everyone should demand their money back. Why would any sane person support a company that spreads transphobia and obviously doesnt care about feelings from trans people, theyre even outright mocking them... Just in case you're not trolling... get some proffesional help, because you're not right in the head, mate. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Envy Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 i think this outrage is ridiculous, and any time the devs. spend on this rather than on squashing bugs is the worst part of the whole thing. Well other than reading some annoying internet outrage, but at least i can go back and play my game and ignore the forums till this blows over. Bugs can be harder to ignore and may force me to read more of this. That offends me. Yeah, the worst thing about this whole kerfuffle is how it distracts from the real issues currently plaguing the game. A problem with outrage culture as a whole. "When the foul sore of envy corrupts the vanquished heart, the very exterior itself shows how forcibly the mind is urged by madness. For paleness seizes the complexion, the eyes are weighed down, the spirit is inflamed, while the limbs are chilled, there is frenzy in the heart, there is gnashing with the teeth." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arouet Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) What's up with so many pages of discussion? From all the badly-written, fanfiction.net-tier backer crap that we got in the game, this is the first thing I see that actually fits the world of Pillars of Eternity. And this thing's not even a joke about trans people, it's a joke about a dude who decided to kill himself, a radical decision, because he simply slept with a man. I hope you can see that the funny part is not the trans person in itself, but the man killing himself because he slept with a man. Also, the person who got triggered by the joke is somebody who tweets things like "I still plan to #KillAllMen. Not changing that goal ever.". Christ, those people will never not be offended. They'll always find things to complain about. I'm going to explain this once, which you will no doubt ignore. How high is the possiblity of there being an actual killing spree against men by "SJWs"? Ok, how many times has the panic defense actually been used by murder defendants? Also, are you going to post here again or did you make an account just for that? So are you arguing that somehow this joke is contributing to the actual murder of transpeople? That sounds like a slippery slope if I ever heard one... Look, I'm not arguing that bad things don't happen to transpeople, they definitely do. But I'm pretty confident that this joke has nothing to do with those things, and will never have anything to do with those things. This isn't a hill I'm going to die on. I'm just pointing out it's a little disingenouous to make them equivalent. I don't think that they believe that people posting #KillAllMen are ACTUALLY going to kill all men. But I do think that it's hate speech regardless. A little off topic, but do you think that uttering an anti-Irish slur in America and say, the N-word, today, are equivalent? I'll chime in. No, but that is amazingly american-centirc. This game is released in more than just America, so your specifying down to just America seems... strange. Yes, I know. I was just trying to cut down the possibility of an evasion by making the situation more specific. Edited March 30, 2015 by Arouet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 What's up with so many pages of discussion? From all the badly-written, fanfiction.net-tier backer crap that we got in the game, this is the first thing I see that actually fits the world of Pillars of Eternity. And this thing's not even a joke about trans people, it's a joke about a dude who decided to kill himself, a radical decision, because he simply slept with a man. I hope you can see that the funny part is not the trans person in itself, but the man killing himself because he slept with a man. Also, the person who got triggered by the joke is somebody who tweets things like "I still plan to #KillAllMen. Not changing that goal ever.". Christ, those people will never not be offended. They'll always find things to complain about. I'm going to explain this once, which you will no doubt ignore. How high is the possiblity of there being an actual killing spree against men by "SJWs"? Ok, how many times has the panic defense actually been used by murder defendants? Also, are you going to post here again or did you make an account just for that? So are you arguing that somehow this joke is contributing to the actual murder of transpeople? That sounds like a slippery slope if I ever heard one... Look, I'm not arguing that bad things don't happen to transpeople, they definitely do. But I'm pretty confident that this joke has nothing to do with those things, and will never have anything to do with those things. This isn't a hill I'm going to die on. I'm just pointing out it's a little disingenouous to make them equivalent. I don't think that they believe that people posting #KillAllMen are ACTUALLY going to kill all men. But I do think that it's hate speech regardless. Of course, now that I think about it...there was Valerie Solanas, so violence from this crowd isn't completely unheard of... Neo-Nazis and White Nationalists will likely never have their "day of the rope" or mass extermination of people they dislike in today's world. It's still hate speech because it's hate. Why people make excuses for hate of any kind is beyond me. 1 "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sakai Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 A little off topic, but do you think that uttering an anti-Irish slur in America and say, the N-word, today, are equivalent? Correct me if i'm wrong, but are you actually trying to defend #killallmen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnsFenrisulfr Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Yes, I know. I was just trying to cut down the possibility of an evasion by making the situation more specific. Than your comment is more than a little off topic, it is a complete non-sequitor. Edited March 30, 2015 by AnsFenrisulfr Why do we exist?Do we exist? Can we be but a dream, An incomplete thought,Only to be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arghanim Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Just wanted to add that if it is ultimatedly decided to remove the backer text in question, I would 100% respect it (despite disagreeing) if Obsidian makes it crystal clear that 1. it was indeed an oversight from the beginning, and 2. outside pressure had nothing to do with the decision and is frowned upon. That's it for me on this matter though. Before I go (but keep reading with interest), might I perhaps ask that the person making every 3rd/4th post right now focus just a bit more on quality over quantity. Just a suggestion. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 A little off topic, but do you think that uttering an anti-Irish slur in America and say, the N-word, today, are equivalent? Correct me if i'm wrong, but are you actually trying to defend #killallmen? That or he's never been exposed to black people , particularly from urban areas, for a significant amount of time. "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "I'm gonna hunt you down so that I can slap you square in the mouth." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "Am I phrasing in the most negative light for them? Yes, but it's not untrue." - ShadySands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scars Unseen Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 It has been claimed that the #Killallmen joke was equivalent in its badness. I pointed out why it might not be. That's all I did. I was not expressing approval of either joke. I'm a guy, btw. I just love Kaelyn the Dove. Strictly speaking, it's worse. In one case we have a fictional character terminally ashamed of inadvertently engaging in sexual relations with another fictional character who falls outside of the spectrum of people he wants to have sexual relations with. In the other case we have an actual person making an almost certainly empty claim of conspiracy to commit genocide. One is fictional, and the other is absurd, but then, I thought we lived in an age where every death threat was taken seriously. Isn't that what got people all up in arms about the whole gamergate thing a while back? Either way, I can't really bring myself to care too much about the fate of a bit of uninspired poetry on way or another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 i think this outrage is ridiculous, and any time the devs. spend on this rather than on squashing bugs is the worst part of the whole thing. Well other than reading some annoying internet outrage, but at least i can go back and play my game and ignore the forums till this blows over. Bugs can be harder to ignore and may force me to read more of this. That offends me. He, here's a good image showing how this nonsense fake outrage was orchestrated, as always, someone from feminist frequency had to be involved. 14 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mutonizer Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) Hmm, game was rated by ESRB as 16+. From their own definition that means: "This rating is applied once the depiction of violence (or sexual activity) reaches a stage that looks the same as would be expected in real life. More extreme bad language, the concept of the use of tobacco and drugs and the depiction of criminal activities can be content of games that are rated 16." So...what's the problem here? Obsidian's rock solid on that front, no idea why anyone from Obsidian even bothered taking this thread in consideration whether you're "shocked" or not. Just ignore it. Edited March 30, 2015 by mutonizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syraxis Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) i think this outrage is ridiculous, and any time the devs. spend on this rather than on squashing bugs is the worst part of the whole thing. Well other than reading some annoying internet outrage, but at least i can go back and play my game and ignore the forums till this blows over. Bugs can be harder to ignore and may force me to read more of this. That offends me. He, here's a good image showing how this nonsense fake outrage was orchestrated, as always, someone from feminist frequency had to be involved. I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. Edited March 30, 2015 by Syraxis Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mansen Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Did you really have to quote their post - image and everything? Talk about wasting vertical screenspace... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnsFenrisulfr Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. Edited March 30, 2015 by AnsFenrisulfr Why do we exist?Do we exist? Can we be but a dream, An incomplete thought,Only to be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syraxis Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Did you really have to quote their post - image and everything? Talk about wasting vertical screenspace... Fixed just for you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arouet Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 (edited) I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. Correct. But I'm the one who wants to make this about GG. Of course. Also, could he have drawn just one squggly red arrow on there? Just one? Edited March 30, 2015 by Arouet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YourFaceIsTriggeringMe Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. What does GamerGate have to do with this? This is about some "feminists" getting ultra offended at nothing at all and making things up to get attention. The ususl bullsnot. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
noxinecrotic Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 As a trans PoC this stuff makes me super angry. I literally lost interest in this product and i regret to spend even a cent on it. My desire to play this game vanished and im getting sick even hearing the name of the game or people talking about it. Im going to my lawyer, i really want my money back. Everyone should demand their money back. Why would any sane person support a company that spreads transphobia and obviously doesnt care about feelings from trans people, theyre even outright mocking them... If you truly feel this way then I feel sorry for you. How is it possible to let such a small thing dictate what media you consume, especially when the poem never implied trans people at all? I'm certainly not going to ask money back for a great game I'm enjoying, but if you have a legitimate reason for a refund, then go right ahead. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnsFenrisulfr Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. Correct. Also, could he have drawn just one squggly red arrow on there? Just one? I should note, his chronology of events IS correct. Just who he attributed it to is wrong. Why do we exist?Do we exist? Can we be but a dream, An incomplete thought,Only to be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindswayer Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 Just wanted to add that if it is ultimatedly decided to remove the backer text in question, I would 100% respect it (despite disagreeing) if Obsidian makes it crystal clear that 1. it was indeed an oversight from the beginning, and 2. outside pressure had nothing to do with the decision and is frowned upon. That's it for me on this matter though. Before I go (but keep reading with interest), might I perhaps ask that the person making every 3rd/4th post right now focus just a bit more on quality over quantity. Just a suggestion. Cheers Well, if what you suggest happens, how do you know if Obsidian aren't lying just to get a free "out of jail" card? I hate Unity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arouet Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. Correct. Also, could he have drawn just one squggly red arrow on there? Just one? I should note, his chronology of events IS correct. Just who he attributed it to is wrong. Then it becomes an accusation that "These people tweeted this". Very damning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnsFenrisulfr Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. Correct. Also, could he have drawn just one squggly red arrow on there? Just one? I should note, his chronology of events IS correct. Just who he attributed it to is wrong. Then it becomes an accusation that "These people tweeted this". Very damning. More "These people manufactured outrage based on very little, then proceeded to lie about what was in the origional content". Damning for their character, though I will readily agree it adds nothing to the current conversation. Why do we exist?Do we exist? Can we be but a dream, An incomplete thought,Only to be forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKull Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 BUT IF THEY DON'T AGREE WITH IT, THAT MEANS IT HAS TO BE CENSORSHIP! It's definitely censorship, but I think the flawed assumption here is that all censorship is "bad." For example, I'm pretty sure that just about any major website would not allow the KKK to write articles for them. Is this censorship? Probably. Is it "bad?" Definitely not. In one sense yes. But I think there is a larger perspective here of the progressive nature of this stuff. 100 years ago nobody would have batted an eye at a racist comment. 50 years ago nobody would have cared about a slur against gay people etc. And now there is a zombie rant on twitter over some mild limerick poking fun at transgenderism, a very concept which would have caused a veritable revolution if it had been so much as talked about 100 years ago. What`s next is my question and the reason I personally would not even censor racism on my website as a matter of principle. Not because I agree with that but because I value freedom more than other people`s fickle hypersensitivities. If the price of freedom is being offended occasionally then I`ll be offended all day long if I have to. The various PC people seem to not acknowledge this perspective at all though. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deh Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. Correct. Also, could he have drawn just one squggly red arrow on there? Just one? I should note, his chronology of events IS correct. Just who he attributed it to is wrong. Katherine Cross is working as a Secretary for Anita/FemFreq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaz Posted March 30, 2015 Share Posted March 30, 2015 I really don't want this to turn into yet another "GamerGate vs FemenistFrequency" internet war, but damning if true. Is not... quite true. None of those people have anything to do with FemFreq, and while I know GG has seen this, they are not the ones starting it and this is kinda outside their usual 'territory'. As far as I know the FemFreq team consists of three people, not sure if there's more: Anita Sarkeesian Jonathan McIntosh (writer and producer) Katherine Cross (secretary) Here are my sources https://i.imgur.com/3krmDzG.png https://pdf.yt/d/QnYk8zz4nV8hfVfv 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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