We need to be able to con mob levels

[Xavori]

 

 

You do not need a con system, this is not your typical zergfest rpg.  I too have played all rpg's, I am 53 y/o and have been around games since the 70's.  

 

Even some VERY successful MMO's such as Ultima Online did not have or need a con system,  you simply tried to fight something and learned the difficulty.  Everquest was a bit more forgiving, it had a con system, but for the most part people knew the difficulty of each zone so it was really not needed.   AD&D did not have a con system, the campain you ran was always around your level just like PoE story quests, it's just that battles are difficult since this is not your typical zergfest game, even things like the bear cave are possible while you are in that zone IF you know what you are doing.  if it is too hard, then you are playing at a difficulty level beyond your capabilities.

 

So no, lets not dumb this game down for the generation that wants all RPG's to be highlight my team, zerg in and steamroll through the content.  We have games like WoW for that.

 

*rolls eyes*

 

Thy gold or thy life, knave.

 

The challenging targets in UO were the other players, and I was oh so very good at killing them.  

 

I really wish the people in this thread would quit equating having information with dumbing down.  It's exactly the opposite.  Asking for information that you have no 'real' way to glean anyway because it's a totally arbitrary abstraction is not dumbing down.  It's asking to actually be allowed to use my brain rather than save-reload.

 

And AD&D didn't need a con system because good DM's and later on the gold box games never randomly threw mobs at players they couldn't handle.  In fact, the first time I think I ran into mobs way stronger than me was in Ultima IV because the game didn't stop you from going anywhere, and you could go into dungeons you had no business being in.  And the solution there was save-reload which wasn't particularly popular back then either. 

 

You'd think current game designers could learn lessons from the predecessors, but sometimes they don't.

 

Giving players information that they should have if they actually lived in the world you're putting them in isn't dumbing down the game.  It's giving players the same tools they'd have to make intelligent decisions if they actually where characters in that world.

 

 

I disagree with everything you said, you are just playing PoE at a level that is beyond your capability.  I can tell you have never designed a game, because adding a con system is nothing but trying to make a good game easy.   Also, not once has PoE put me in a zone that I could not handle, and I am not playing in easy mode.

 

 

Actually, I have designed a game.  I was also a game magazine writer (which is how I got the job working for a game company...bad career decision on my part...writing paid better)

 

You didn't go fight the bear when you got to the cave?  You didn't go down in the temple beat up some spiders and then get flattened by shadows?  You didn't try bounties when you first got access to them possibly at level 3?  All of those things put you in situations that are way, way beyond the level you likely can reach them at.  Heck, I'm willing to bet people died in the bandit camp because they rolled a non-fighter who can't take a hit, and hence, can't take on a bunch of hostile NPC's by themselves.

 

So I'm guessing you either read about this problems or you're not being totally honest with us and you actually have had to reload a saved game after getting run over.

 

But I have a question now.  I figure if there are a dozen or so people claiming that information = easy, there must be something to it.  So could someone please explain it rather than just say I want the game easy or dumbed down?    How is knowing a mob is going to wipe the floor with me making it so the game is dumbed down? Could you please explain how having some idea of the difficulty fight is going to help me win that fight?

 

Because as from where I'm at, I'm not asking the game to give me a button that kills the mobs or does the fight for me.  I'm asking for information I should have in order to make an intelligent decision.

 

(and again, if I wanted easy mode, I have it.  I've also got piles o cheese I could throw at things if I so wanted to the point where if I ever get motivated enough to try the 10 rest only run through, I have no doubt I can do it.)

[PrimeJunta]

No way. NO WAY!

 

One of the biggest kicks I get is poking my nose in places it shouldn't be and consequently getting it pushed in.

 

Fortunately I would rate the likelihood of this getting implemented as around one snowball in seven Acherons.

[pi2repsion]

But in terms of level-based CRPG design, it's a bad design to put in an area that is immediately accessible WITHOUT TELLING THE PLAYERS AT ALL THAT IT IS TOO HARD FOR THEM.

Whether it is too hard for them or not depends on their party composition and chosen difficulty level.

 

By the time you arrive in the Gilded Vale you have enough money to hire one adventurer, or two if you picked up the hidden Disappointer pistol, so you can start the exploration of the temple with anything from one character to five depending on your actions without exploring any further than the village.

 

By that time the player has already learned, if there were any doubt in the first place, that a bigger party is better than a smaller party.

 

The developers furthermore ensure that as soon as you enter the Gilded Village you are directed to go to the inn to rest, and if you do that you'll likely pick up Aloth and you'll certainly get to see the adventurer hiring option when talking to the innkeeper. You are then further directed to go speak to Carla and may or may not pick up Eder after that.

 

Once you enter the temple, the very first thing that happens is that you meet a helpful NPC telling you it is a dangerous place crawling with monsters. The temple layout is such that you proceed through a series of encounters of gradually increasing difficulty on the first level. Things only get really nasty when you decide to proceed to the second level, by which time you should know that this is a dangerous place even if somehow you'd missed the NPCs warning. And if it turns out you were overconfident and it is too dangerous for you and you didn't bring along any adventurers, feel free to run away from an encounter to hire adventurers to flesh out your party. Or fight to the death and reload. Or reduce the difficulty setting if e.g. you are playing on hard and think it is unfair that some encounters are hard.

 

WHAT MORE DO YOU BLOODY WANT? A sign saying, "you must be SO tall in order to enter?" Another NPC after the first one saying, "You know, the first guy really meant it, are you SURE you want to continue exploring the spooky abandoned temple crawling with monsters without 5-6 characters in the group?" A ghostly voice exclaiming when you descend to the second level, that "NOW THINGS REALLY GET SPOOKY: You should be ready for monsters with high DR and teleporting monsters that attack your squishy characters. If you aren't, then regardless of how many you are or your levels, you are all going to DIE"...

 

 

Look, I understand why some people would like the ability to see an enemy's level before engaging. I don't want that for myself, but I understand it and could easily see it as an optional tooltip. It wouldn't help much, as level is a very bad indicator of difficulty or whether your party would be able to succeed, since the danger of Shades is their high DR and the danger of Shadows is their teleportation, their level just isn't as important, but it would provide comfort and handholding for those that prefer being guided to the easiest encounters first, and that's no skin off my nose.

 

HOWEVER, your notion that the Temple of Eothas being placed in an area that is immediately accessible is an example of bad design because ill prepared players who for whatever reason ignore all the warning signs, don't assemble a large party, try it with low level characters, decide to go dungeon delving before performing the fetch quests available in the village, and/or play on a high difficulty level, get slaughtered out of hand... Now, THAT, is ridiculous.

Edited March 31, 2015 by pi2repsion

[Emerwyn]

This is one thing I can really agree with. There are 2 things that make PotD not a viable play option for a first-time playthrough. One is that once combat begins, there is no escape. If you aggro the wrong thing, your game is over. The other is that there is no way to determine which red circle is capable of one-shotting you.

 

I am absolutely loving this game, but I do wish there was a con system. Without it, you probably shouldn't try PotD until you after you are thoroughly familiar with the game.

 

I'm doing my first playthrough in PotD. Cleared the Temple of Eothas at level 2 with 3 party members, and the Raedric Fort at level 3 with 4 party members, and honestly, it's very difficult (lots of dying in certain encounters) but also very fun and rewarding. Now that my party has 6 and I got good talents and spells, I'm not even dropping a single member in most encounters. 

 

You can just say that you don't like it to be that hard, but that's the reason for there are 3 other lower difficulty levels.

 

Also, I love running into unexpected hard/impossible fights. It feels like a real world. So I die, what's the big deal? I just load the last game and go another way. The game autosaves the whole time anyway.

 

What I don't want is metagaming posters all over the place telling me what level I should be before adventuring in one or another direction, or a world that conveniently scales in linear progression to match my expected level of advancement. That kind of thing destroys my fun and immersion.

Edited March 31, 2015 by Emerwyn

[StubbinMyToe]

Actually, I have designed a game.  I was also a game magazine writer (which is how I got the job working for a game company...bad career decision on my part...writing paid better)

 

You didn't go fight the bear when you got to the cave?  You didn't go down in the temple beat up some spiders and then get flattened by shadows?  You didn't try bounties when you first got access to them possibly at level 3?  All of those things put you in situations that are way, way beyond the level you likely can reach them at.  Heck, I'm willing to bet people died in the bandit camp because they rolled a non-fighter who can't take a hit, and hence, can't take on a bunch of hostile NPC's by themselves.

 

 I've designed many games too, including triple AAA title for Intel and Disney.  I've been in the industry as an engineer, designer, and even a CEO of my own company for three decades.  But in the end, these are just "opinions", you do understand that my opinion is just as valid as yours, right?  There is no right or wrong when it comes to an opinion,  you simply disagree with me just as much as I disagree with you.   There is one fact though, and that is there have been many successful CRPG's that did not have a con system!

 

Anyway,  disagree all you want, but I think you are simply playing at a setting you are clearly not capable of.   Yes, I have done the bear cave and the temple beneath the tree at the level they send you there. 

 

The game is fine, and just like in RL you cannot simply "con" someone, you will not know how well you will fare until you actually fight them.  

[StubbinMyToe]

 

This is one thing I can really agree with. There are 2 things that make PotD not a viable play option for a first-time playthrough. One is that once combat begins, there is no escape. If you aggro the wrong thing, your game is over. The other is that there is no way to determine which red circle is capable of one-shotting you.

 

I am absolutely loving this game, but I do wish there was a con system. Without it, you probably shouldn't try PotD until you after you are thoroughly familiar with the game.

 

I'm doing my first playthrough in PotD. Cleared the Temple of Eothas at level 2 with 3 party members, and the Raedric Fort at level 3 with 4 party members, and honestly, it's very difficult (lots of dying in certain encounters) but also very fun and rewarding. Now that my party has 6 and I got good talents and spells, I'm not even dropping a single member in most encounters. 

 

You can just say that you don't like it to be that hard, but that's the reason for there are 3 other lower difficulty levels.

 

Also, I love running into unexpected hard/impossible fights. It feels like a real world. So I die, what's the big deal? I just load the last game and go another way. The game autosaves the whole time anyway.

 

What I don't want is metagaming posters all over the place telling me what level I should be before adventuring in one or another direction, or a world that conveniently scales in linear progression to match my expected level of advancement. That kind of thing destroys my fun and immersion.

 

 

Give this man a cigar, he "gets it"! 

[StubbinMyToe]

 

But in terms of level-based CRPG design, it's a bad design to put in an area that is immediately accessible WITHOUT TELLING THE PLAYERS AT ALL THAT IT IS TOO HARD FOR THEM.

Whether it is too hard for them or not depends on their party composition and chosen difficulty level.

 

By the time you arrive in the Gilded Vale you have enough money to hire one adventurer, or two if you picked up the hidden Disappointer pistol, so you can start the exploration of the temple with anything from one character to five depending on your actions without exploring any further than the village.

 

By that time the player has already learned, if there were any doubt in the first place, that a bigger party is better than a smaller party.

 

The developers furthermore ensure that as soon as you enter the Gilded Village you are directed to go to the inn to rest, and if you do that you'll likely pick up Aloth and you'll certainly get to see the adventurer hiring option when talking to the innkeeper. You are then further directed to go speak to Carla and may or may not pick up Eder after that.

 

Once you enter the temple, the very first thing that happens is that you meet a helpful NPC telling you it is a dangerous place crawling with monsters. The temple layout is such that you proceed through a series of encounters of gradually increasing difficulty on the first level. Things only get really nasty when you decide to proceed to the second level, by which time you should know that this is a dangerous place even if somehow you'd missed the NPCs warning. And if it turns out you were overconfident and it is too dangerous for you and you didn't bring along any adventurers, feel free to run away from an encounter to hire adventurers to flesh out your party. Or fight to the death and reload. Or reduce the difficulty setting if e.g. you are playing on hard and think it is unfair that some encounters are hard.

 

WHAT MORE DO YOU BLOODY WANT? A sign saying, "you must be SO tall in order to enter?" Another NPC after the first one saying, "You know, the first guy really meant it, are you SURE you want to continue exploring the spooky abandoned temple crawling with monsters without 5-6 characters in the group?" A ghostly voice exclaiming when you descend to the second level, that "NOW THINGS REALLY GET SPOOKY: You should be ready for monsters with high DR and teleporting monsters that attack your squishy characters. If you aren't, then regardless of how many you are or your levels, you are all going to DIE"...

 

 

Look, I understand why some people would like the ability to see an enemy's level before engaging. I don't want that for myself, but I understand it and could easily see it as an optional tooltip. It wouldn't help much, as level is a very bad indicator of difficulty or whether your party would be able to succeed, since the danger of Shades is their high DR and the danger of Shadows is their teleportation, their level just isn't as important, but it would provide comfort and handholding for those that prefer being guided to the easiest encounters first, and that's no skin off my nose.

 

HOWEVER, your notion that the Temple of Eothas being placed in an area that is immediately accessible is an example of bad design because ill prepared players who for whatever reason ignore all the warning signs, don't assemble a large party, try it with low level characters, decide to go dungeon delving before performing the fetch quests available in the village, and/or play on a high difficulty level, get slaughtered out of hand... Now, THAT, is ridiculous.

 

 

Here is another man who gets it.   People today want to be held by the hand, next thing they will want are big exclamation marks above NPC heads to indicate quests, dots on the map showing where to go, and rediculous looking armor with large shoulder pads along with mods that tell you when to press 1, 2, 3, or 4 and what spell the mob is about to cast next.  Reading dialog text is too hard for them, they would rather group select the party and zerg on in to any fight.  There are plenty of easy mode games that do just that, lets leave the few challenging games as they are and perhaps people will learn to adapt.   Wow, that mob just kicked my ass, perhaps I need help (recruit someone) or should adapt a new strategy?

[ednanf]

I'm baffled with the mentality I see around here/steam forums.

People are treating like the game must be tailored to them. If they developed everything like everyone wanted this would be an unplayable Frankenstein.

 

it basically goes this way: "I'm not good enough to play on the hardest difficulty setting, therefore you (developer) should change this and that."

If you can't do it, accept you are not capable of doing it. That's life. Some people are better than others. This doesn't mean that the game should be changed to benefit your whims and massage your ego because you will be able to accomplish X or Y thanks to the developer changing their vision of their (and I should reinforce this, it's their game, not yours) game.

 

In the end, you can just stop playing or maybe starting your own kickstarter project to make a game just perfect for you. Or you know, you can just adapt and accept what is proposed in this game and enjoy.

[Xavori]

I'm baffled with the mentality I see around here/steam forums.

People are treating like the game must be tailored to them. If they developed everything like everyone wanted this would be an unplayable Frankenstein.

 

it basically goes this way: "I'm not good enough to play on the hardest difficulty setting, therefore you (developer) should change this and that."

If you can't do it, accept you are not capable of doing it. That's life. Some people are better than others. This doesn't mean that the game should be changed to benefit your whims and massage your ego because you will be able to accomplish X or Y thanks to the developer changing their vision of their (and I should reinforce this, it's their game, not yours) game.

 

In the end, you can just stop playing or maybe starting your own kickstarter project to make a game just perfect for you. Or you know, you can just adapt and accept what is proposed in this game and enjoy.

 

I think I need to quash this whole attack on my skills as a gamer right now.

 

I'm cakewalking through the game at this point.  I'm not kidding about being a game writer.  I wrote strategy guides.  Everyone who knows anything about me knows that I'm the go-to guy for figuring out how to cheese a game.

 

I've not once asked for the game to be made easier.  In fact, I've had to restrain myself from cheeseballing this game because it's just that badly balanced.

 

I'm also really enjoying playing the game.  It's been a long time since a good story-driven CRPG has come out, and I really like what Obsidian did in making their own very interesting world.

 

My suggestion was never about making the game easier because I thought it was too hard.  It was about making it more strategic rather than just guessing.  I hate guessing.  With a passion.  If you were to look at my Steam library, you'd find mostly strategy games (including every single frakkin' grand strategy game by Paradox cuz they are my current fav publisher).  

 

So again, I'm not asking for the game to be made easier.  I'm not struggling with the game in any way shape or form.  I just got tired of getting roflstomped because my explorer nature was getting me into fights I had no business being in without any way of my knowing or expecting that the fight was too hard until after I was trapped.

[zultor]

It seems that there are two different styles of players and that colors your opinion on this issue.   On one hand there are players who say "death is all the information I need" and don't mind reloading save games.    And on the other hand there are players who see dying something to be avoided at all costs.   This is the camp I find myself in.

 

What I don't understand is how players in the former group think a con-style system which informs the players about difficulty is somehow an "easy button" while at the same time think apparently "save scumming" isn't.   I see relying on your save games and cavalierly taking on things which you have no chance of killing as the safest form (i.e. boring) of playing...personally.   I only reload a save game when the outcome of a battle means my game is compromised (either wipe or mostly wipe).   I do everything possible in game to avoid this scenario.   That doesn't mean I wait till I am overpowered before I fight a mob but it means I take risk vs reward calculations into account when deciding on whether or not to engage.  

 

Maybe I have a too rogue-like mentality but saying "just die and reload" is the ultimate cop-out IMHO.   The ideal con-style mechanic would be one that ties into the bestiary and for first time encounters (where there isn't information) gives a general indication of the mobs difficulty.

[Nukenin]

The bestiary already fleshes out once you've defeated multiple enemies of a certain type (possibly abetted by Lore?).  I wouldn't be opposed to some option (that would be amongst those disabled by selecting Expert Mode, perchance) that uses some combination of starting Lore (more fanciful creatures) and/or Survival (basic beasts) to prepopulate some bestiary entries to account for the protagonist's existing experience.  It makes sense that a druid or ranger might know the general level of, say, a bear or wolf.

 

As a tradeoff, have this count as already having "killed" X creatures of the exposed types?

 

Options are optional.

 

The more intricate it is, though, the less likely it will happen (going down from a presumed base of "not likely").  And since all protagonists are new to the Dyrwood, one can simply accept that Dyrwooden variants of all beasties and creatures are different enough to account for every protagonist having to "learn it anew".  And that all NPC companions hold their secret knowledge tightly to their chest-type body part.  And that everybody really is out to get you.  

[FalloutBoy]

 

 

Is it actually possible to escape combat at all once it's initiated?

 

 

Yes, you use a disable or interrupt (or an escape spell, clone potion, etc).  There are ways to leave a battle, no need for easy mode to hold our hands.

 

 

False. Once aggroed, it's you or the bear. No escape. No indication to the player that you need to level up a bit before fighting it, yet there is a quest telling you to go in the cave. Game tells me to do something then punishes me for doing it.

[ednanf]

 

I'm baffled with the mentality I see around here/steam forums.

People are treating like the game must be tailored to them. If they developed everything like everyone wanted this would be an unplayable Frankenstein.

 

it basically goes this way: "I'm not good enough to play on the hardest difficulty setting, therefore you (developer) should change this and that."

If you can't do it, accept you are not capable of doing it. That's life. Some people are better than others. This doesn't mean that the game should be changed to benefit your whims and massage your ego because you will be able to accomplish X or Y thanks to the developer changing their vision of their (and I should reinforce this, it's their game, not yours) game.

 

In the end, you can just stop playing or maybe starting your own kickstarter project to make a game just perfect for you. Or you know, you can just adapt and accept what is proposed in this game and enjoy.

 

I think I need to quash this whole attack on my skills as a gamer right now.

 

I'm cakewalking through the game at this point.  I'm not kidding about being a game writer.  I wrote strategy guides.  Everyone who knows anything about me knows that I'm the go-to guy for figuring out how to cheese a game.

 

I've not once asked for the game to be made easier.  In fact, I've had to restrain myself from cheeseballing this game because it's just that badly balanced.

 

I'm also really enjoying playing the game.  It's been a long time since a good story-driven CRPG has come out, and I really like what Obsidian did in making their own very interesting world.

 

My suggestion was never about making the game easier because I thought it was too hard.  It was about making it more strategic rather than just guessing.  I hate guessing.  With a passion.  If you were to look at my Steam library, you'd find mostly strategy games (including every single frakkin' grand strategy game by Paradox cuz they are my current fav publisher).  

 

So again, I'm not asking for the game to be made easier.  I'm not struggling with the game in any way shape or form.  I just got tired of getting roflstomped because my explorer nature was getting me into fights I had no business being in without any way of my knowing or expecting that the fight was too hard until after I was trapped.

 

Knowing if you have a good probability of surviving an encounter beforehand will make the game easier because you will not have to worry when you are exploring. So yeah, you did not complain directly about making the game easier, but the feature you requested will prevent you from dying (and having to see a loading screen once because of that). 

 

I did not target specifically at you with the “too hard” part. I did however when I said that they can’t just throw everything that everyone asks because in their view is a “must have feature” to “improve” their experience with the game. 

Honestly, if you are going to engage an enemy you never saw before, you quicksave, try. If you win, good. If you lose, reload and proceed playing. It’s not that hard nor it is inconvenient.

 

If such system is implemented, the risk of losing your save in ironman mode is severely diminished, which will definitely bring a new wave of complaints. It is a lose/lose situation for them. That’s why the best way out is to focus on their vision and stick to it, not matter how many “good” suggestions are thrown at them every hour.

 

Furthermore, they have their hands full ironing bugs (like insane amount of crashes on Macbooks), game-breaking bugs and maybe balancing stuff, which are way more important than implementing something new that *may* just cause even more problems.

 

Edit---

Oh, and about the bear, there is a NPC that tells you to avoid the bear, and the NPC is right in your face. If someone decided to simply ignore the warning, there isn’t much one can do.

Edited March 31, 2015 by ednanf

[Xavori]

 

Honestly, if you are going to engage an enemy you never saw before, you quicksave, try. If you win, good. If you lose, reload and proceed playing. It’s not that hard nor it is inconvenient.

 

 

That line.  That one right there.  It invalidates every single argument anyone makes about me wanting the game to be easier versus the way it is now.

 

Easier and dumbed down is exactly what that line represents.  There is absolutely no risk if you play that way.  No matter how bad of a decision you make; you won't suffer the consequences of it.  Just reload.  And it applies to every single aspect of the game, not just combat.

 

I hate playing that way.  As I've said many times in this thread.  I want to make intelligent decisions, not no-risk decisions.

[Caerdon]

Anyone who has no extensive experience at fighting beasts, yet still wanders alone into a cave to fight a bear, deserves to die horribly. Try some common sense next time.

 

I don't want to see monsters with their names written in red with a skull icon on top of them. I want to figure out on my own which enemies I can take on. And in my experience, save scumming is absolutely not necessary. When I face some monsters I haven't seen before, I try to make sure that I only fight one at first and that I get to fight in favourable conditions. Also, you can almost always make some educated guesses on how difficult any given encounter is likely to be, and the game often provides lots of little hints, if you're willing to look for them.

 

So far I've loaded saves numerous times because of failing to execute my strategy correctly, but I haven't loaded a save even once because of grossly underestimating an opponent.

[icedon]

And see, I don't think PoE has the kind of content that makes it worth multiple playthroughs.  So the game needs to get things right with players from the start.  I also don't think that multiple-playthrough is a good excuse not to give players the information they need to make good strategic decisions.

 

 

I am just curious. Are you really sure you are not trolling?

[sparklecat]

I honestly don't think we would even be talking about this if not for that stupid bear cave. You are an hour into the game, with no party members, and they put in an encounter that one-shots you with no way of predicting this or responding to it other than to reload your game. It's a stupid dirty trick that some designer probably thought was clever or funny or something.

 

It's perfectly predictable.  You are alone at level 2 and it is labelled "bear cave."  The sensible thing to do is to walk away, just as any not very amazing person on their own would do when faced with the prospect of fighting a bear.  The only reason it feels "unfair" is because we've become accustomed to games holding our hand and not presenting us with challenges we are not currently capable of overcoming.  Which means it serves a purpose in PoE - to provide us with an abrupt introduction to the concept of having to go away and coming back later if something seems too difficult.

 

In over 30 hours, only once have I been murdered horribly by something I wasn't yet capable of facing; the game provides hints that something coming up will be very hard, smaller encounters leading up to the big ones to let you gauge the difficulty of an area, etc.  Which makes me happy; I don't want psychic knowledge of enemies' precise difficulties, I want to learn the game and the world more organically.

[ednanf]

 

 

Honestly, if you are going to engage an enemy you never saw before, you quicksave, try. If you win, good. If you lose, reload and proceed playing. It’s not that hard nor it is inconvenient.

 

 

That line.  That one right there.  It invalidates every single argument anyone makes about me wanting the game to be easier versus the way it is now.

 

Easier and dumbed down is exactly what that line represents.  There is absolutely no risk if you play that way.  No matter how bad of a decision you make; you won't suffer the consequences of it.  Just reload.  And it applies to every single aspect of the game, not just combat.

 

I hate playing that way.  As I've said many times in this thread.  I want to make intelligent decisions, not no-risk decisions.

 

Man, this is just a game, there are no real risks.

Any game which you can save your progress and reload whenever you want will be a valid target for this criticism. If you hate this concept, play with iron man on and be extremely careful to not die. That’s the only way to solve your problem. Having color-coded names to warn you of danger is no better than reloading if you die.

Edited March 31, 2015 by ednanf

[Xavori]

 

And see, I don't think PoE has the kind of content that makes it worth multiple playthroughs.  So the game needs to get things right with players from the start.  I also don't think that multiple-playthrough is a good excuse not to give players the information they need to make good strategic decisions.

 

 

I am just curious. Are you really sure you are not trolling?

 

 

I'm not.  I made a serious suggestion with concrete reasoning behind it.

 

I've also not yet heard one person who has come up with a cogent argument against adding an option for what I've asked for.  I have gotten a fair share of ad hominem posts, and untold numbers of logical fallacies, but no one yet has explained why giving an option to have better information that is readily accessible elsewhere and should be accessible in game is a bad idea.  This in turn makes me suspect that others may be trolling this thread, but in the interests of good debate, I'm assuming good intent on the part of respondents since to do otherwise totally invalidates the debate by making it pointless.

 

What's more, at this point, I don't actually need mob conning to play.  I'm so far beyond the levels and gear of content I'm coming across because of my need to dig through every nook and cranny of every map that most fights aren't even tactical anymore, and the few that are are pretty rote tactics.  Move tanks in position at front, priest just behind them, ranged guys in back, and then have rogue sneak attack to start things off.  But that's rare and it's usually just select all, target one going from mob to mob.

[Nukenin]

[…]

Oh, and about the bear, there is a NPC that tells you to avoid the bear, and the NPC is right in your face. If someone decided to simply ignore the warning, there isn’t much one can do.

 

 

An "off-the-path" explorer can encounter that bear cave before ever even knowing about the aforementioned NPC.

 

This is the sort of person who'll charge the bear(s), too.

 

My current Trial of Iron (expert, easy) dwarf fighter is just such a person.  Easy, sure, but when the game starts assembling encounters to throw at you based on your expected party size of >1 and you're soloing… or telling you to go into that cave that killed a prior soloist because hey, the quest needs it after all!

 

Gooder.  Funner!  

[sparklecat]

I encountered the cave before encountering the NPC.  I did not go in.

[kalel78]

guys.. its a toggle to show a mob's level.. its not "hand holding".. having a toggle for this in the game is a reasonable request IMO.

 

that being said, i do believe it should be off on expert mode.  honestly if you are a spellcaster at level 1.. by yourself.. and you see that group of bandits early game.. and you dont have enough common sense to move on.. maybe you shouldnt be playing on "expert mode". 

 

oh and as for the bear.. well, again, i would ask.. have you played D&D before?  bears are usually dangerous at level 1 or 2.  especially by yourself.  so again, .. if you see the bear and still engage.. thats a YOU problem.. not a game problem.  sorry.

Edited March 31, 2015 by kalel78

[StubbinMyToe]

 

 

 

Is it actually possible to escape combat at all once it's initiated?

 

 

Yes, you use a disable or interrupt (or an escape spell, clone potion, etc).  There are ways to leave a battle, no need for easy mode to hold our hands.

 

 

False. Once aggroed, it's you or the bear. No escape. No indication to the player that you need to level up a bit before fighting it, yet there is a quest telling you to go in the cave. Game tells me to do something then punishes me for doing it.

 

 

It's not false, there is plenty of indication that the fight will be difficult!  You're being punished because you are playing at a difficulty level you cannot handle.

[StubbinMyToe]

 

 

Honestly, if you are going to engage an enemy you never saw before, you quicksave, try. If you win, good. If you lose, reload and proceed playing. It’s not that hard nor it is inconvenient.

 

 

That line.  That one right there.  It invalidates every single argument anyone makes about me wanting the game to be easier versus the way it is now.

 

Easier and dumbed down is exactly what that line represents.  There is absolutely no risk if you play that way.  No matter how bad of a decision you make; you won't suffer the consequences of it.  Just reload.  And it applies to every single aspect of the game, not just combat.

 

I hate playing that way.  As I've said many times in this thread.  I want to make intelligent decisions, not no-risk decisions.

 

 

You've already stated your opinion many times now, why do you keep arguing with anyone who does not share your opinion?  Sounds like trolling to me...

[StubbinMyToe]

guys.. its a toggle to show a mob's level.. its not "hand holding".. having a toggle for this in the game is a reasonable request IMO.

 

 

 

Problem is they have more important things they could do, like fix all the bugs.  Adding hand holding features that are not required except by people playing at difficulty levels they are not capable of is just a waste of time.   A bit of common sense and reading can avoid most all deaths in this game provided you know what you are doing and not playing beyond your ability.