Paladin tank build discusion

[SereneGilt]

Hi guys,

 

I am one of mad man and I am going to try the game hard way for the first run. So I will play expert,Iron, and hardest dificulty. In this seting It will definately need character which is able to survive. For the first try I will try this:

 

Race: Moon Godilke (because of healing wave at 75%, 50% and 25% each encounter)

Class Paladin, The shieldbearers of Elcga (Mainly because I am benevolent, protective and diplomatic. So it will be my king of guy)

Ability: Lay on Hands

 

Attributes: (This I write at work just from my memory so it may not be exact. Numbe includes bonuses for race and culture)

 

Might : 14

Constitution : 9

Dexterity: 4

Perception: 18

Inteligence: 15

Resolve: 18

 

As Background I choose Mercenary.

 

Build is made this way because I tryed to maximalize deflection, Buff areas and duration and healing. But yes... Const is pretty low and it makes a room for disaster with permadeth option on. But I somehow hope that Quality is better than quantity. 

 

The goal is to have good secondary/support tank. I intent to have fighter as main tank. With Paladin I want tu support, protect, survive and be a leader type in conversation and events.

 

For sure I am posting it here, to get a chance from experienced players feedback. (Please keep spoilers at minimum.) So feel free to post your point of view.

 

[ShadowTiger]

I'm not very experienced but I think my build works pretty well. My paladin is Hearth Orlan with these stats:

M 6 
C 12 
D 6 
P 20 
I 14 
R 20

I am playing with custom party of 6 characters, so a bit stronger at low levels than game was designed for. However, I almost never get hit. Most encounters my whole party will be unharmed or suffer minor injuries. I have had a few tougher fights where only paladin takes damage and goes to around 50% endurance. I have 3 tanky characters, a Chanter, Paladin, and Priest and the paladin is probably the best but the chanter works almost as well.

 

I am using a medium shield + interference weapon (hatchet) for a total of +17 deflection, which is the best you can get in the early levels.

 

Overall your build looks good. Curious to see what other say.

 

Edited March 27, 2015 by ShadowTiger

[SereneGilt]

Thank you for your build. It makes me think about other posibilities (Especialy your group builds). I am also curious what other will say. Many are there from beta and may have experience we can profit from

[Zwiebelchen]

You shouldn't play Ironman yet. There's some heavily gamebreaking bugs that have yet to be fixed that might irreparably stop your progress.

 

Save often and save on different slots.

[illathid]

I've tried a few different builds for Paladins, but given the faith and conviction bonuses, I'd try to not have a ton of true dump stats. They can easily have some of the best defenses against every type of attack.

[Raistlan]

I also agree with not trying Ironman yet.  At least if you do, stay away from Raedrics Hold

[SereneGilt]

Thanks for advice guys. I have decided to make first play without Ironman.

[DIXI]

I love me some paladins. They are the best class "dialogues" wise, but the worst DPS wise! That's for sur imo. I'd suggest you to get a rogue with your paladin to compensate the lack of DPS.

 

My paladin build is almost the same as ShadowTriger, but I'd recommend this: Hearth Orlan

 

M 6
C 10
D 6
P 20
I 16
R 20

 

You don't need that much constitution if you have lot of deflection honestly. Mine has 10 const and I can tank a sh**load of mobs on Path of the damned if you have the right perks. So why 16 int? Just for the dialogue options. But I'm not gonna lie, 14 int is sufficient imo. You don't get much extra dialogue options for 16 int. So it's really up to you.

[publicpwnerer]

I'd love to play a Paladin in another playthrough, hell...I might even restart today.

 

Some questions though. How do Paladin tanks handle multiple enemies? Like, how do you engage them? My Fighter tank has the modal that engages more enemies. What kind of weapon and armor are you guys using?

[SereneGilt]

I love me some paladins. They are the best class "dialogues" wise, but the worst DPS wise! That's for sur imo. I'd suggest you to get a rogue with your paladin to compensate the lack of DPS.

 

My paladin build is almost the same as ShadowTriger, but I'd recommend this: Hearth Orlan

 

M 6

C 10

D 6

P 20

I 16

R 20

 

You don't need that much constitution if you have lot of deflection honestly. Mine has 10 const and I can tank a sh**load of mobs on Path of the damned if you have the right perks. So why 16 int? Just for the dialogue options. But I'm not gonna lie, 14 int is sufficient imo. You don't get much extra dialogue options for 16 int. So it's really up to you.

 

This is almost exactly the build I have been toying with on weekend. Exept I had only 10 int and 16 cons. Its because I have some mental problem leave Fortitude in negative numbers. You are compensating this with Trait or Poisoins are not such a problem (My experiences with spiders are horible)

 

Dialog options for paladins tempting me a lot

[atchoum44]

I love me some paladins. They are the best class "dialogues" wise, but the worst DPS wise! That's for sur imo. I'd suggest you to get a rogue with your paladin to compensate the lack of DPS.

 

My paladin build is almost the same as ShadowTriger, but I'd recommend this: Hearth Orlan

 

M 6

C 10

D 6

P 20

I 16

R 20

 

You don't need that much constitution if you have lot of deflection honestly. Mine has 10 const and I can tank a sh**load of mobs on Path of the damned if you have the right perks. So why 16 int? Just for the dialogue options. But I'm not gonna lie, 14 int is sufficient imo. You don't get much extra dialogue options for 16 int. So it's really up to you.

 

I agree with the 10 to the constitution thing, it's more than enough. I love tanking with my paladin. At level 4 I attacked Raedrick. With a full party (with one custom rogue). Nearly everyone was knocked out. Pala in the middle ? Not a scratch.

 

I didn't min/maxed though, I'm still wondering if it's the best idea considering the multiple defensive system. Besides, in urgent situation, it's good that your tank can still DPS a little bit.

 

 I gave him a defensive speciality in shield + weapon also for the +6 on deviation and reflexe (total score 70 at level 4). As it is a fixed bonus I'm not sure if it's worth it at high level. 

[DIXI]

Idealy you want defensive modals like +def +fort+ will +reflex and then Weapon and shield. Stuff like that. More defensive = easier to tank mobs.

 

As for the weapons, It depends on the enemies you're facing. Always look enemy weaknesses and then switch weapon. I always keep a crush/slash and pierce weapon for each char just in case. Armor wise, always go for more DR. Recovery speed isn't necessary for a super tank char. Thought if you want to be more DPS wise, then I'd suggest to balance DR and recovery speed.

 

When it comes to fight, I engage fights with my rogue, then run back and rush in with my paladin. Then I wait for the mobs to aggro my paladin and from there I chop chop chop them with my rogue. But I'm gonna be honest, I might be decent for making builds, but I suck when it comes to do creative fights and strategies. So yeah...

[Kagemane]

Hey, I am running more or less the same main.

I chose to roleplay a Human Paladin, even knowing that race is not too good.

 

I chose 3 constitution, and buffed at max deflection too. It is risky as you say, but if you are careful, use it to offtank, and look at enemies precision, I think we should be ok.

I got more might and dex, so I can go offensive later on if I want to.

[falchen]

I wonder about paladin auras, from reading the entry about stacking am I right in assuming that damage reduction zealous aura would not stack with say, damage reduction from a priest's armor of faith spell?

[Mysh]

Here comes my latest and most versatile Paladin build. Scrap my previous suggestions; they are rubbish

 

It's not only viable in harder difficulties, but also does exceptionally well in RP acting as a soft-tongued diplomat.

 

Role: Tank, Support, Combat Initiator

 

Advantages: High survivability, able to guard party members, weak but sustainable DPS, strong in role playing aspects, all-around.

Disadvantages: Micro intensive, shines over endgame, makes all the dirty work to let others shine

 

Paladin order: Shiedbearers of St. Elcga (order choice may appear questionable, but is priceless in actuality. Read below)

 

Race: Pale Elf (elemental resistance DRs, yes, please!), Hearth Orlan (slightly more DPS focused works well too), Moon Godlike (more heals, but no helms).

 

Attributes:

Might: 10 (matching might and dexterity yields the best DPS with this build. I won't elaborate here, since it's too detailed. Let me know, if you need further explanation on this.)

Dex: 10 (we will absolutely need this to sustain some DPS, in the end attack speed will be horrendous. Read below.)

Con: 10 (the build is tanky even with 10CON, but wouldn't suggest to go below for better synergy with high athletics skill)

Per: 17 (Deflection is needed for tanks, awesome in RP)

Int: 14 (Only for RP, offers minor buffs in support abilities. Truth is you can easily dump this to 10 and go 12 might, 12 dexterity, if you don't care for role-playing your character. We said we will be diplomats, so 14 INT feels good)

Res: 17 (More deflection, yes please! Complements the RP side of our character nicely)

 

Skills: Athletics 9 (so important for a tank), Lore 10 (for RP reasons), Survival 4 (RP and potions).

 

Weapon set of  Choice: Noble (Mace) and shield

 

Abilities:

Level 1: Lay on Hands (A minor heal, far more useful than FoD in combination with shielding touch, read below)

Level 3: Zealous Endurance (more DR, yes please, we will need as much as we can)

Level 5: Sworn Enermy (this ability offers an absolutely important accuracy bonuses, and a x1.2 damage bonus. Together with your modal, it will allow you to bring a small but sustainable DPS in fights, where you have to contribute. Given your paladin cannot be brought down in fights, small but sustainable DPS is more than it sounds.)

Level 7: Reviving Exhortation (A well-placed revive can turn battles around)

Level 9 Reinforcing Exhortation (It allows you to shield any ally in a radius of 10m, it's a priceless support ability. Being able to shield your damage dealer from afar means a lot in PoE).

Level 11 Hastening exhortion opens hardcore support abilities (this can turn your dual wielding DPS into a killing machine, and by doing things like this is how you win in Path of the Damned), Righteous Soul (makes our Paladin uber tanky). Choice is up to you.

 

Talents:

Level 2: Weapon and Shield Style (Absolutely vital. More deflection and more reflex, yes please! We are the shieldbearers after all.)

Level 4: Cautious Attack +10 deflection , -20% attack speed. (more deflection, yes please. Essentially, It stacks with zealous endurance and vulnerable attack. Should be triggered off, if character is not in the centre of focus to gain action speed).

Level 6: Shielding Touch (Modifies lay on hands and yields a +8 deflection bonus for 10sec. Sounds, nah... but it's absolutely fantastic. If you heal someone he absolutely needs this deflection bonus. Moreover it buys your ally time to get out from a difficult situation. Imagine this in combination with Reinforcing Exhortation, it basically turns any character into a tank. The best part? In contrast to other Paladin skills, it can also be used as a self-buff.)

Level 8: Weapon Focus Noble (Paladin's accuracy is not that great, but this together with sworn enemy, will allow to bring in some damage when needed. Why the heck noble? Well, we will go with mace for the 5 DR bypass bonus).

Level 10: Vulnerable Attack, -20% attack speed, +5DR bypass (more stacking DR bypass? Yes, please. As mentioned, it stacks as a modal ability with zealous endurance and cautious attack. Should be almost always on. If vulnerable attack is on together with cautious attack and the paladin is in full-plate things get very slow. Hence, 10 dexterity makes things viable.)

Level 12: Hold the Line (less flanking is always good), Deep Faith (more deflection and saving throws, nice), Superior Deflection (+5 deflection sounds good). Any choice would do.

 

Comments:

1: You can have one paladin, one offensive and one defensive modal on at the same time.

2: Depending on talent choice, you can get your deflection sustainable up to 98-103 and spiked up to 106-111 with self-buffs and without bonus items.

3: The suggested skillpoint distribution yields 0 unused points in the end.

4: I value +3 perception, +10DR fire, +10DR freeze, over the heals of a Moon Godlike, but all suggested racial choices are viable.

 

Things you should forget:

Anything related to flames of devotion (Tried hard to make this work, in the end you spend way too many talent points and gain almost nothing in return. Might work for high might builds, but not for this, but then again if you want to play a DPS build, paladin is not your best choice.)

Greater lay on hands (+10 heal once per encounter, really?). If you want heals, get a cleric and druid in your party.

 

Feel free to dip in and comment. Thanks for reading.

 

FYI I posted this build at another section of the forum. I post here again, since the other section was irrelevant, Thanks.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Mysh

[Ichthyic]

 

Things you should forget:

Anything related to flames of devotion

too many people seem to miss that shieldbearers get a great upgrade to flames called "shielding flames".

 

whenever you use your flames attack, everyone in your party gets +10 deflection.

 

that's better than the lay on hands buff, hands down.

 

plus... you get to do it twice per combat.

 

though, this is specifically for a tanky pally build, not a generalist.

 

 

[Lasci]

A Hearth Orlan with maxed out resolve and perception and a fair amount of constitution is all you need to tank.

 

If you're going with Shieldbearer, you absolutely need to pick up Shield of Flames, which gives everyone a deflection bonus.

 

For tanking, you want to make sure that your paladin is the first to walk into the enemy so that they target him immediately. You may want to get Hold the Lines so that you have an easier time of it. It's also a good idea to pick up Eder so that he can help you tank on the side; with his help, it should be very difficult for your enemies to get past you and into your back line.

 

Otherwise, make sure you pick up weapon and shield style if you're going to be using a shield. You might be able to get away with lighter armor because your deflection is going to be so damn high.

[SereneGilt]

Myshs build looks great. After a lot of experimenting I have decided to use similar:

 

M 10

CON 10

DEX 10

PER 16

INT 16

RES 16

 

Higher Int is for RP purpose and propably more dialog options. As A race I choose Human... again I have decided to orient it more toward dialogs and look like my self. But so far it looks that it will be working. From what I tested tank is not as important as cipher as soul shock in right time. With that combo tank have to tank only Strong mobs. And to be honest I think for the game like this is Far more important to set your main to reflect character you have in mind than to be perfect char. For it you can create Min maxing Adventurer which will support your build. 

 

So more balanced Paladin is pretty fine for me

[mazeltov]

Myshs build looks great. After a lot of experimenting I have decided to use similar:

 

M 10

CON 10

DEX 10

PER 16

INT 16

RES 16

 

Higher Int is for RP purpose and propably more dialog options. As A race I choose Human... again I have decided to orient it more toward dialogs and look like my self. But so far it looks that it will be working.

 

Looks good to me. But, assuming this is basically a tank/RP build, as it seems to be, you won't miss a few points from Might and Dexterity and a few more added to Per/Int/Res. There are many 17/18/19 difficulty dialogue checks, just by level 7. Probably higher towards the late game.

 

--

 

Also, Hold the Line at lvl 12?    Paladins can only hold aggro from one mob before taking Hold the Line. The talent is a 100% tank effectiveness buff. Take it at 4 or at the latest 6 in order to do any tanking at all.

[SereneGilt]

Thanks for skill checks values. I will have it in mind.

[Mysh]

 

 

Things you should forget:

Anything related to flames of devotion

too many people seem to miss that shieldbearers get a great upgrade to flames called "shielding flames".

 

whenever you use your flames attack, everyone in your party gets +10 deflection.

 

that's better than the lay on hands buff, hands down.

 

plus... you get to do it twice per combat.

 

though, this is specifically for a tanky pally build, not a generalist.

 

 

Ichthyc,

 

Thanks for your thoughtful input.

 

Would you consider an AoE bonus, which is effective only in a short range around you more useful? Due to the mechanics of the spell, allies do not gain deflection if they get in range after the spell has been casted. This means you can only cast the spell, if both allies and foes are close enough; this may not always be the case. You need a foe to cast the spell, and an ally close enough to benefit from it.

 

Morevover, FoD+shielding flames is not a self-buff and affects only your allies, so cannot be considered a tanky ability;

 

On the contrast a heal with a deflection bonus to an ally who is dieing is a life saver. It is reliable and you can always guarantee it will work as intended.

 

Overall, with my naive thinking, an aimed heal and deflection bonus to an ally in need is far more useful and reliable than a short range AoE that is uncertain whether it will offer any benefit. 

 

 

A Hearth Orlan with maxed out resolve and perception and a fair amount of constitution is all you need to tank.

 

If you're going with Shieldbearer, you absolutely need to pick up Shield of Flames, which gives everyone a deflection bonus.

 

For tanking, you want to make sure that your paladin is the first to walk into the enemy so that they target him immediately. You may want to get Hold the Lines so that you have an easier time of it. It's also a good idea to pick up Eder so that he can help you tank on the side; with his help, it should be very difficult for your enemies to get past you and into your back line.

 

Otherwise, make sure you pick up weapon and shield style if you're going to be using a shield. You might be able to get away with lighter armor because your deflection is going to be so damn high.

 

Lasci, thanks for spending time to read my post and your thoughtful input. Please read my answer to Ichthyc regarding shielding flames.

 

Your are absolutely right about hold the line. I will revise my build order and take hold the line earlier. Would you value it over weapon and shield style?

 

What type of armor would you suggest to fight with?

 

In my opinion a hearth Orlan may be more DPS focused, but a Pale elf with elemental protections feels truer to your role as a tank.

Edited April 3, 2015 by Mysh

[DaNiMaL]

What about Flames of Devotion with Kind Wayfare'ers they give 20hp heal per hit, would synergize well with moongod. Also im wondering does Might affect the healing of these 2? And does Intellect affect the aoe of both aswell? Been debating of using this along with the other defensive stuff.

[Infares]

I've tried a few different builds for Paladins, but given the faith and conviction bonuses, I'd try to not have a ton of true dump stats. They can easily have some of the best defenses against every type of attack.

What I do is at least balance my stats in such a way that all my saves still total +12. For instance, an offensive spread like 21/5/19/7/18/8 will result in even defenses across the board (except Deflection, obv) and you can flip them around for tanks in a similar way by lowering the offensive stats instead. 

 

Thing is, tanks are going to get a bunch of free reflex but be susceptible to stuns and the like so you will likely want to overvalue Fort, and also Will if you're a Wild Orlan. 

[Ekkyo]

I red a guide which talking about Cypher. Look at the build (attributes priority for him), it is not absolutely what you describe.

 

http://guides.gamepressure.com/pillarsofeternity/guide.asp?ID=29823

 

We talk ?

Edited April 8, 2015 by Ekkyo

[Ekkyo]

M 6
C 15
D 6
P 18
I 17
R 18

 

I would go over it. What about you ?