Dump stat constitution ?

[sparklecat]

Not necessarily a spoiler, depends on how sensitive you are to info I found on the wiki.

 

 

I checked the wiki and the highest int check was 18 (I'm assuming though that those aren't ALL the attribute checks in the game... right? Right?) res and per were both 16 I think. They seemed to get used pretty often. The other stuff also get used but are usually actions, not talking and I get the vibe that there are ways to go around them if you have the right items. Though that's just an impression.

 

Bless you; I have been trying to find this out for some time.

[Luckmann]

I guess Con will be far more useful at higher difficulties (Hard-PotD), and less in lower difficulties. On normal it should be fairly dumpable(?).

Actually, the higher the difficulty, the higher the incentives to min/max becomes, which basically amounts to wanting as high DPS as possible to kill as many enemies as possible in the shortest amount possible, before they violently murderrape you.

 

So CON becomes even more of a "Tanks Only - Maybe" Attribute.

 

Plus, in PoE the Constitution modifier is percentage based, which means it's far more useful for classes that already get a high base health pool, like Barbarians and Fighters, since the bonus health will be exponentially more (+25% of, say, 500 health is a lot more than +25% of 200 health, for example).

 

I'm not sure I'm a big fan of that. Because the only reason I'd want to pump constitution on a character in the first place would be if he was one of those low health squishies (like mages and rogues), in order to minimize their weaknesses. But as it stands one is better off spending attribute points on making a class's strengths stronger, than trying to eliminate the class's weaknesses.

This is why I want to add a flat +1 Endurance/+2 Health to Constitution in addition to the +3% Endurance/Health. It may not sound like a lot, but for Wizards (30+10/level), that ends up being over a full extra level's worth of Endurance if you pump it (20 Endurance) at level 1, while not being quite as valuable to, say, Barbarians (48+16/level). Yes, it's not enormous, but at least it'll make it a little bit better for low-health classes.

[Bryy]

So the general consensus is unless it's a warrior-class, I can leave CON at 10?

[Hiro Protagonist II]

I dump Con on all my ranged characters and spell casters and have been doing so since the start of the beta. My Rogue who's my main damage dealer has been in melee in every fight and has less than 10 Con and has only been knocked out a few times.

[Fimconte]

I feel like Con being a % based increase favours making it a dump stat on all low hitdie characters.  
Going from 10 to 8, you only lose 3 endurance by level 4 on Wizard.  
Dumping all the way to 3 is also perfectly viable, especially if you go double wizard for obscene cc/burst.  

I even dump it on glass melee, ie. dw int-carnage barb or dw-backstab rogue, although I prefer ranged rogue with arbalest and a pet chanter, since if properly microed, they won't get hit anyway.  

[Akos]

I'm not really certain that CON is good on anyone. Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, anyone who has a naturally high health score doesn't really need more Health/Endurance to work as a tank and everyone else has such a tiny amount of Health that a multiplier in one direction or another isn't really making a big impact on their survival. If you're really worried about their health some accessories that just give a flat increase to their endurance is going to be more beneficial than sacrificing other attributes for CON. 

Any lost Fortitude can be made up through Might, which is possibly even more useful for your front-line fighters as enemies becoming dead more quickly is a great way to get them to stop hitting you. 

 

Constitution should probably offer a flat health/endurance bonus rather than a multiplier so that it offers equal benefit to every class, which is how every other attribute currently works. Giving it something offensive would make it more attractive as well; perhaps higher Constitution would lower the attack speed malus of heavier armor, or even offer DR for very high amounts (+1 DR every 4 points in constitution). 

[HozzM]

I'm not really certain that CON is good on anyone. Fighters, Barbarians, Paladins, anyone who has a naturally high health score doesn't really need more Health/Endurance to work as a tank and everyone else has such a tiny amount of Health that a multiplier in one direction or another isn't really making a big impact on their survival. If you're really worried about their health some accessories that just give a flat increase to their endurance is going to be more beneficial than sacrificing other attributes for CON. 

 

Any lost Fortitude can be made up through Might, which is possibly even more useful for your front-line fighters as enemies becoming dead more quickly is a great way to get them to stop hitting you. 

 

Constitution should probably offer a flat health/endurance bonus rather than a multiplier so that it offers equal benefit to every class, which is how every other attribute currently works. Giving it something offensive would make it more attractive as well; perhaps higher Constitution would lower the attack speed malus of heavier armor, or even offer DR for very high amounts (+1 DR every 4 points in constitution). 

 

CON definitely needs something more than the current End/Health/FORT bonuses to make it a more attractive attribute.  It is the worst of the 6 by far.

[Jojobobo]

I'd say it's the dumpiest stat on people who naturally have high endurance and health anyway. On my current Barbarian I'm playing con 3 (4 with and item I've found, 8 with Frenzy, 10 with Greater Frenzy whenever I get round to taking that) and they still have more or less equal Endurance of Eder without Frenzy but with much greater health. Really Int is a much better way to go, as then your Con is boosted for longer under the effects of Frenzy anyway, ergo it's pretty pointless.

 

That said, Con is very useful on people like Chanters who aren't damage focussed to begin (as they Obsidian recommend, Int/Con/Res really is a good way to go). I'd also go for it on Fighters just there to take the pain rather than dish it out (leaving that to the other guys).

[gurugeorgey]

I think it all just depends on difficulty.

 

On Normal, the game pretty much lives up to the idea of "build how you like, even according to rp characteristics, and you'll still be viable".  So long as you pay some attention to the "recommended" stats, you're golden.

 

But on Hard, and especially on PoTD, I think you will have those two "paths" someone mentioned above, as optimal - CON, PER and RES for tanks, MI, INT and DEX for damage dealers, everything else dump.

[pi2repsion]

Yes, consider a nice optimized elf wizard/old valia. Take 18 MIG, 19 DEX, 19 INT, and you 3 CON, 4 PER, and 3 RES, with 12 points left over.

 

If maximizing the wizard's effectiveness in combat is the goal, then:

 

• If you invest them in RES, you are much harder to interrupt, so you've got a decent chance of casting spells while enemies are hitting the wizard, and get a bit higher deflection - and the vast majority of damage wizards will be taking targets deflection.
• If you invest them in CON, you have more endurance, but you are easy to interrupt. If anybody makes your wizard his punching bag, you'll have a hard time casting the spells needed to free the wizard.
• If you invest them in PER, you should have your head examined.

 

Which is why the min-maxer invests the leftover points in PER and casts Infuse with Vital Essence and other defenses when needed to buy the time to slaughter whomever is hitting the wizard.

 

If there is a dump stat in Pillars of Eternity, it is constitution, since nearly all other stats are better for all characters except those that tank - and even tanks have stats that are better than constitution.

Edited April 5, 2015 by pi2repsion

[Nordicus]

Yes, consider a nice optimized elf wizard/old valia. Take 18 MIG, 19 DEX, 19 INT, and you 3 CON, 4 PER, and 3 RES, with 12 points left over.

 

If maximizing the wizard's effectiveness in combat is the goal, then:

• If you invest them in RES, you are much harder to interrupt, so you've got a decent chance of casting spells while enemies are hitting the wizard, and get a bit higher deflection - and the vast majority of damage wizards will be taking targets deflection.
• If you invest them in CON, you have more endurance, but you are easy to interrupt. If anybody makes your wizard his punching bag, you'll have a hard time casting the spells needed to free the wizard.

Which is why the min-maxer invests the leftover points in PER and casts Infuse with Vital Essence and other defenses when needed to buy the time to slaughter whomever is hitting the wizard.

 

It goes the other way too if we consider Fortitude, and that a lot of melee enemies have a knockdown skill that they initiate with or passive paralysis applied on every hit. 24 less fortitude is not pretty.

 

Edit: or perhaps you want to have a more specific scenario where the wizard is being hit by ranged attacks? In that case I'll give that Con doesn't matter as much, though enemies can't interrupt you much then anyway unless multiple are concentrating on you

Edited April 5, 2015 by Nordicus

[Ichthyic]

the higher level you get, the less important con is.

eventually, even with a con of 6, your endurance will still be high enough to tank just fine.

far more protective is deflection and damage resistance.

if you're tanking, max perception, max resolve, and wear the heaviest armor you can find, and carry a wooden door.

I'm finding on hard, nothing can touch you for any significant damage.  scratching you for 1 or 2 points per combat round (if you even GET hit, which is rare enough), when you have an endurace of at least 90?  yeah, you can laugh at that.

yes, con is a dump stat.

I would go further than that even, and say not only is con a dump stat, but you will actually enjoy the game more IF you use it as a dump stat.  early on at least, you might actually think the fights are a tad risky.

the funny thing is, from my experince you actually need higher con for your casters, since they will have very crappy armor (or none), and their endurance will also be much lower per level.  even then, though, you don't need to "boost" it much past default.  1 or 2 points should be enough.

but really, I'm telling you, as the game stands now, making con your dump stat for ALL your characters actually makes the game a touch less boring once you get past act 1

 

Edited April 5, 2015 by Ichthyic