WTB Rogue suggestions/advice

[Yosharian]

So I'm making a Dwarf Rogue for my first character and I'm considering the following elements/themes:

 

 

- Daggers - I want to be a stabby mcstabbalot and nail people in the back with super backstab bonuses.

 

- Optional Ranged Combat - I would like to be able to resort to ranged combat versus tough enemies or when the situation demands it, but I'm unsure if this is possible to do reasonably well in PoE (will be playing on hard).

 

- Hit 'n' fade-type character - Not interested in tanking as I will be taking Eder and Pallegina for those roles.

 

- High maintenance is ok - Mostly I will be controlling this character so it's ok if the character is high maintenance (needs a lot of babysitting).

 

- High stealth - will be maxing Stealth on this character.

 

What I need from you guys:

 

1) Attribute suggestions - at first I was going to dumpstat Intelligence and Resolve but now apparently Intelligence is good for rogues?  I don't understand why at all.  Would really love some attribute suggestions!

 

2) Weapon suggestions - I was imagining some dagger/pistol combination ("Arrhhh!" /piratevoice) but should I look for any weapon/weapon combos in particular?

 

That's about it, but if you have any other suggestions I've love to hear them.  You can even suggest I abandon some of my character elements completely in favour of stronger ones - I'm fairly into my powergaming so I don't mind listening to your ideas.

 

Thanks for reading!

Edited March 24, 2015 by Yosharian

[Search_Party_of_Fourj]

I'll offer up my own build to give you some ideas, but I am not trying to min-max so I am sure there are better ways to arrange the attributes.  

 

Coastal Aumaua - Deadfire Archipelago - Raider.  [Wanted to do Islands Aumaua for the free weapon; I heard this was nerfed in the release version though.  If it's still there I will go islands.

 

Attributes: M:17 C:10 D:15 P:13 I:9 R:14

 

That gives +21% damage, +15% action speed, +7 deflection, + 16 reflex, +14 fortitude, + 6 will (with +20 to prone/stun from racial)

 

Talents I will get for sure: two-weapon specialization, Ruffian weapon focus, backstab and shadowing beyond.  Others I will get will focus on crit.

 

He will open with a pistol shot, hopefully from stealth, then move in with dual stilettos or sabre/stiletto when the enemy is engaged with my tank(s), ideally going for the flank.  Should be manageable.  

 

Again, I know there are more optimal builds but for me this strikes a good balance between optimal and roleplay, since I imagine him being charismatic, witty and intuitive but impatient, uneducated and primarily concerned with his own power and station in life.  The 14R/13P should give some more dialogue options too.  If I were optimizing I would lower Intellect and probably resolve, and raise strength/dex to max or near max.  From what I understand, intellect is decent for a rogue as the duration is important for blind etc. but a couple seconds (a 4 int increase or decrease) is only enough for at most 2 sneak attacks.  Good, but not life-changing.  Not as good as a constant +12% damage I imagine.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Search_Party_of_Fourj

[gkathellar]

This is by far the slickest TWF rogue build I've seen, and it meets basically all of your criteria:

 

Hearth Orlan Dual Wielding Rogue: 

Armed with two Stilettos for fast attacks that bypass DR, along with a Pistol for opening combat with major Dmg. 

 

Attributes:

Might: 17

Con: 9(4?)

Dex: 18

Per: 16(18?)

Int: 3

Res: 15(18?)

 

Talents:

Vulnerable Attack: +5 DR bypass on top of the +3 from the Stilettos makes for decent DR bypass. Also results in -20% Melee Attack Speed which should be negligible.

Two Weapon Style: +20% Melee Attack Speed, which will negate the reduction caused by Vulnerable Attack.

Vicious Fighting: +10% of Hits converted to Crits.

Deflecting Assault: Reduces the loss of Deflection from using Reckless Assault.

Bloody Slaughter: +20% of Hits Converted to Crits for enemies with low Endurance, as well as increase crit multiplier by +0.5.

Weapon Focus Ruffian: +6 Accuracy for Stilettos and Pistol(May want to drop that and use something else like Superior Deflection or Bull's Will for better defense since Acc bonus is quite minimal. As well Interrupting Blows could also be useful, though Stilettos have a weak interrupt, but every second counts and I jacked up Perception pretty high which comes with +18 Interrupt.)

 

Abilities:

Crippling Strike or Blinding Strike: 1.25 dmg multiplier and applies status effect enable on enemy for Sneak attack dmg bonus.(CS can be use 2x per encounter while BS can only be used 1x, but BS is more useful as it decreases enemy Accuracy for a time as opposed to Hobbling like CS which doesn't really help out a melee character)

Reckless Assault: x1.2 DMG multiplier, +8 Acc with a cost of -8 Deflection. 

Dirty Fighting: +10% of Hits converted to Crits.

Deep Wounds: Adds Raw Dmg over time to strikes.

Adept Evasion: +50% chance of converting incoming Grazes to Misses.(Coordinated Positioning is also a good option)

Deathblows: Melee/Range Dmg x2 when enemy has 2 or more conditions that allow for Sneak Attack.

 

Class Talent:

Sneak Attack: x1.5 Dmg on from Stealth and on enemies that are Blinded, Flanked, Hobbled, Paralyzed, Petrified, Prone, Stuck, Stunned or Weakened. As well as any target struck within 2 seconds of combat starting.

 

Racial Talent:

Minor Threat: +10% chance of Hits converting to Crits when attacking same target as Ally.

 

So all in all this character will have a +30% chance of converting Hits to Crits, a relatively high attack speed, decent DR bypass, a wealth of DMG multipliers that, not even counting weapon enchantments, can get as high as x3.66 when all possible multipliers are active.

 

Intellect isn't all too important, I think, since there's only one active ability with any kind of duration effect and that is mostly there for the Dmg bonus, obtaining Sneak Attack bonus will mostly be achieved through status effects brought on by your party members with things like Flanking being key, especially because of the Minor Threat talent and it's +10% Hits to Crits when attacking an ally's target. Con might be an issue, or might be something to decrease even more to buff up Res and Per more. I'm not familiar enough to say though. 

 

For me this feels, on paper at least, to be a solid build combat wise and something I'd enjoy playing, as well as an providing compelling options RP wise. Overall I'm pretty happy with it. Would love to hear people's more experienced opinions on it, especially the Attribute spread. I'm curious if I could bring Con down to 4 so that I could boost Res and Per to 18 each, or that would make me too much of a glass canon. 

 

I've played it, and it's pretty great. Open in combat with a blunderbuss or pistol, then switch to paired stilettos and flank. Crippling Strike gives you 2 damage spikes per encounter. Go for 4 Con and 18s in Resolve and Perception. I know the low Con makes it look fragile, but my experience is that even with 4 Constitution in padded armor or robes, it can actually take a surprising amount of punishment. Nonetheless, its primary role is to strike and fade - which is what you wanted, I believe.

 

The whole thing with Int is that it effects durations and AoE radius, and so basically every class normally wants it. This build is one of the rare exceptions. As a crit-fisher, it doesn't need anything Intelligence has to offer, and so can drop it. It's a beautiful stabbing machine with 4 of its attributes high enough to get virtually all conversation options related to them.

Edited March 24, 2015 by gkathellar

[Veevoir]

 

 

o for 4 Con and 18s in Resolve and Perception. I know the low Con makes it look fragile, but my experience is that even with 4 Constitution in padded armor or robes, it can actually take a surprising amount of punishment. Nonetheless, its primary role is to strike and fade - which is what you wanted, I believe.

I experimented with a very similar build - Trust me, once you put 1-2 +10-20 endurance items on your rogue the CON malus is gone and more. % decrease of something that is really small to begin with doesnt hurt

 

Also consider sabers instead stilletos - they have a high base dmg and scale really well with dmg stacking.

Edited March 24, 2015 by Veevoir

[Oxford_Guy]

I like this build, mostly fits what I was thinking along the lines of for my first charcter, though the extreme min/maxing of Int puts me of a little, for RP reasons if nothing else, not sure I want to play a character quite as stoopid as this! What what be a reasonable less extreme versin of this?

[DdsT]

Point 1: Does the racial and cultural bonuses allow going above 18?

When I look at the thread about companion attributes, it seems so.

If yes, regarding the Hearth Orlan Dual Wielding Rogue:

- Why not lower the CON to 3 and rise PER or RES above 18?

- Aumaua could then be able to reach 21 Might. Wouldn't it be more interessant DPSwise than a Orlan?

If not, disregard those two questions

 

Point 2: What would be a great culture and background for the above mentionned build? Does it have an impact on the dialog options?

 

Point 3: Having 3 in INT in some games makes most of the dialog impossible. Is it the case here and do the high RES and PER make up for the loss of dialog option?

Edited March 25, 2015 by DdsT

[gkathellar]

Point 1: Does the racial and cultural bonuses allow going above 18?

When I look at the thread about companion attributes, it seems so.

If yes, regarding the Hearth Orlan Dual Wielding Rogue:

- Why not lower the CON to 3 and rise PER or RES above 18?

- Aumaua could then be able to reach 21 Might. Wouldn't it be more interessant DPSwise than a Orlan?

 

It does, and it's true that you might well drop the last point of Con for more Resolve or Perception. It won't make a ton of difference either way.

 

The reason you want Hearth Orlan is its special ability, Minor Threat, which converts 10% of hits to crits when attacking the same target as one of your allies. This is notably more valuable than a few more points of Might.

 

 

Point 2: What would be a great culture and background for the above mentionned build? Does it have an impact on the dialog options?

 

You can run any culture or background with the build above. If you want, Living Lands will let you stuff another point into Might.

 

Backgrounds and cultures do effect dialog options, but not in any way particular to this build.

 

 

Point 3: Having 3 in INT in some games makes most of the dialog impossible. Is it the case here and do the high RES and PER make up for the loss of dialog option?

 

So far as I know, 3 Int won't cost you any dialog options that 10 or 8 Int doesn't. There's no stupid-speak; PoE rewards high attributes with dialog options, rather than penalizing low ones. So while you're not going to get any lines that require an Int of 12 or 14 or whatever, but that's not going to destroy your experience.

[Oxford_Guy]

 

Point 1: Does the racial and cultural bonuses allow going above 18?

When I look at the thread about companion attributes, it seems so.

If yes, regarding the Hearth Orlan Dual Wielding Rogue:

- Why not lower the CON to 3 and rise PER or RES above 18?

- Aumaua could then be able to reach 21 Might. Wouldn't it be more interessant DPSwise than a Orlan?

 

It does, and it's true that you might well drop the last point of Con for more Resolve or Perception. It won't make a ton of difference either way.

 

The reason you want Hearth Orlan is its special ability, Minor Threat, which converts 10% of hits to crits when attacking the same target as one of your allies. This is notably more valuable than a few more points of Might.

 

 

Point 2: What would be a great culture and background for the above mentionned build? Does it have an impact on the dialog options?

 

You can run any culture or background with the build above. If you want, Living Lands will let you stuff another point into Might.

 

Backgrounds and cultures do effect dialog options, but not in any way particular to this build.

 

 

Point 3: Having 3 in INT in some games makes most of the dialog impossible. Is it the case here and do the high RES and PER make up for the loss of dialog option?

 

So far as I know, 3 Int won't cost you any dialog options that 10 or 8 Int doesn't. There's no stupid-speak; PoE rewards high attributes with dialog options, rather than penalizing low ones. So while you're not going to get any lines that require an Int of 12 or 14 or whatever, but that's not going to destroy your experience.

 

 

What other penalties are there for having on 3 INT? Still don't much like the idea of a utter moron for my PC, regardless of whether this makes much difference in-game,. though...

[Luckmann]

It would be funny if virtually *all* dialogue options had requirements to some degree, so that you'd actually lose options if you had really low stats, and always could be considered "qualifying" as you increase them.

 

To the best of my knowledge, aside from the retard-speak granted by low intelligence in some games, no game has actually done this.

[DdsT]

The reason you want Hearth Orlan is its special ability, Minor Threat, which converts 10% of hits to crits when attacking the same target as one of your allies. This is notably more valuable than a few more points of Might.

With a bit of theorycraft it is not so easy to choose:

Let's assume we go 18 Might with the Orlan build 1 and 21 Might with the Aumaua build2.

 

The +9% (3 Might difference) of build2 add a raw +7.2% on all damage (graze, hit and crit) compared to build1 without taking the Orlan trait into account.

 

The +10% hit in crit conversion only applies on hits. Most of the time, the chance to perform a hit will be 50% (it can be lower if the accuracy is lower than the defense stat or at least 50 higher) and a crit adds 50% damage to your attack compared to a hit.

 

Let's assume we have accuracy=defense, so we have the standard 15, 50 and 100 thresholds for miss, graze, hit and crit.

The basic average damage formula (without the might bonus and other modifiers) for build2 would be 0.35*0.5+0.5*(1+x*0.5) with x being the current hit to crit rate.

For build2, this would be 0.35*0.5+0.5*(1+(0.1+x)*0.5)

In the proposed talent choice, x=0.2 most of the time. We then have:

build1 average damage factor per attack: 0.75

build2 average damage factor per attack: 0.725

With the added talent from the Orlan, build1 do on average 3.4% more damage than build2 if not taking might into account. But this is the best case scenario. The following conditions lower this bonus:

-no companion is attacking your target

-accuracy<def: hits become more rare

-accuracy>def: the added critical chance lower the overall weight of hits in the average damage calculation

-higher x (coming from talent or buff)

-lower crit damage bonus (firearms)

 

It is safe to say than the Aumaua "max might" build does more damage and with a higher consistency. On top of that, you get the racial ability and the "brute" look of Aumaua fits a 3 INT build

The disavantage is the loss of 3 points in RES and PER compared to the Orlan build (17/16 PER and 16/17 RES look still ok for dialog checks). Having more crit is also a bonus to interrupt.

 

Please correct me if something is missing or wrong in my calculation.

Edited March 25, 2015 by DdsT

[gkathellar]

I'm not much of a math person myself so I'm not sure, but given your calculation it seems like it's effectively a tossup, probably a bit in favor of the Aumaua.

 

What other penalties are there for having on 3 INT? Still don't much like the idea of a utter moron for my PC, regardless of whether this makes much difference in-game,. though...

 

Low int penalizes AoE and duration - the object of the build being that it doesn't need either. That's more-or-less all.

 

Anyway, play in the way that suits you best. There are definitely dual wield rogue builds that use higher intelligence. I just happen to be fond of this one.

[mrmonocle]

my melee rogue inSCECtion

[Veevoir]

my melee rogue inSCECtion

 

My notes, wIthout going into even more details:

- why leaving INT and CON at 10? (10 is as useful in dialogues/stories as having them both at 3); INT is not that useul for rogue as others are inflicting conditions required for sneak attack. Blinding/crippling strike are useful because they are x1.25 dmg AND sneak attack, not for blessing someone with a long affliction; CON can be dumped for rogues - just by equipping ONE item taken from other BB npcs you can regain all the endurance lost by dumping con ..and then some.. OF course there will be lower health thing looming over the character.

 

- why wielding a normal/fast weapon? normal/normal works well enough. As usual go for extremes - either normal/normal or fast/fast, normal/fast is not the most damaging and not the fastest.

 

- at level 2 "vulnerable attack" is very important, much better than additional +20% melee speed. It may not be important in BB, but in the game where you dont get 4 levels for free - the massive jump in DMG vulnerable attack gives is far more useful than extra 20% speed.

Edited March 25, 2015 by Veevoir

[Myrten]

To be honest I think it's much better to go with ranged rogue with  blunderbuss

Edited March 25, 2015 by Myrten

[mrmonocle]

 

my melee rogue inSCECtion

 

 

- why wielding a normal/fast weapon? normal/normal works well enough. As usual go for extremes - either normal/normal or fast/fast, normal/fast is not the most damaging and not the fastest.

 

my tests proved normal/fast of different dmg types to be more useful than n/n or f/f. Sometimes you're half a sec late with interrupt with n/n, and f/f doesn't always provide a suitable dmg output.

[Lychnidos]

 

The reason you want Hearth Orlan is its special ability, Minor Threat, which converts 10% of hits to crits when attacking the same target as one of your allies. This is notably more valuable than a few more points of Might.

With a bit of theorycraft it is not so easy to choose:

Let's assume we go 18 Might with the Orlan build 1 and 21 Might with the Aumaua build2.

 

The +9% (3 Might difference) of build2 add a raw +7.2% on all damage (graze, hit and crit) compared to build1 without taking the Orlan trait into account.

 

The +10% hit in crit conversion only applies on hits. Most of the time, the chance to perform a hit will be 50% (it can be lower if the accuracy is lower than the defense stat or at least 50 higher) and a crit adds 50% damage to your attack compared to a hit.

 

Let's assume we have accuracy=defense, so we have the standard 15, 50 and 100 thresholds for miss, graze, hit and crit.

The basic average damage formula (without the might bonus and other modifiers) for build2 would be 0.35*0.5+0.5*(1+x*0.5) with x being the current hit to crit rate.

For build2, this would be 0.35*0.5+0.5*(1+(0.1+x)*0.5)

In the proposed talent choice, x=0.2 most of the time. We then have:

build1 average damage factor per attack: 0.75

build2 average damage factor per attack: 0.725

With the added talent from the Orlan, build1 do on average 3.4% more damage than build2 if not taking might into account. But this is the best case scenario. The following conditions lower this bonus:

-no companion is attacking your target

-accuracy<def: hits become more rare

-accuracy>def: the added critical chance lower the overall weight of hits in the average damage calculation

-higher x (coming from talent or buff)

-lower crit damage bonus (firearms)

 

It is safe to say than the Aumaua "max might" build does more damage and with a higher consistency. On top of that, you get the racial ability and the "brute" look of Aumaua fits a 3 INT build

The disavantage is the loss of 3 points in RES and PER compared to the Orlan build (17/16 PER and 16/17 RES look still ok for dialog checks). Having more crit is also a bonus to interrupt.

 

Please correct me if something is missing or wrong in my calculation.

 

 

You should have compared a 18 might Orlan to a 20 might Aumaua, or a 19 might Orlan to a 21 might Aumaua, as the Aumaua get +2 to might. Also, for accuracy>deflection to lower the chance of hit the difference needs to be at least 51, and I don't think that a talent/ability granting higher hit to crit chance will override Minor Threat.  

[DdsT]

You should have compared a 18 might Orlan to a 20 might Aumaua, or a 19 might Orlan to a 21 might Aumaua, as the Aumaua get +2 to might. Also, for accuracy>deflection to lower the chance of hit the difference needs to be at least 51, and I don't think that a talent/ability granting higher hit to crit chance will override Minor Threat.

I thought that the -1 MIG of the Orlan reduced the maximum Might to 17 (18 with the culture).

If not then there is only a 2 might gap between the class, i.e. 4,7% more damage for the Aumaua compared to a 19 MIG Orlan.

 

For accuracy>deflection, the bonus gets lower in comparison to the Aumaua not because of the lower chance of hit, but because of the lower chance of miss, which means that the MIG bonus from the Aumaua gets applied more often (whereas the hit conversion stay the same until a difference greater than 51).

Lets assume you have an accuracy = 50 + deflection. You never miss, have 50% chance to hit and 50% chance to crit.

The Orlan with 19 MIG and 30% hits to crit has then on average per attack a multiplier of (1+0.03*9)*((1+0.5*0.3)*0.5 + 1.5*0.5) = 1.68

The Aumaua with 21 MIG and 20% hits to crit has then on average per attack a multiplier of (1+0.03*11)*((1+0.5*0.2)*0.5 + 1.5*0.5) = 1.72

You can see that the Aumaua clearly wins in this case.

 

Actually after calculation, even without base hit to crit conversion and with a 2 MIG gap, the Aumaua always wins the DPS race (lowest difference between the two factors is at accuracy=deflection, 0.889 for the Orlan, 0.898 for the Aumaua).

 

The difference is quite negligible (1-2% increase for the Aumaua in most case) but it doesn't require you to attack the same target as an allie and it grants you an additionnal trait.

Edited March 25, 2015 by DdsT

[Lychnidos]

 

You should have compared a 18 might Orlan to a 20 might Aumaua, or a 19 might Orlan to a 21 might Aumaua, as the Aumaua get +2 to might. Also, for accuracy>deflection to lower the chance of hit the difference needs to be at least 51, and I don't think that a talent/ability granting higher hit to crit chance will override Minor Threat.

I thought that the -1 MIG of the Orlan reduced the maximum Might to 17 (18 with the culture).

If not then there is only a 2 might gap between the class, i.e. 4,7% more damage for the Aumaua compared to a 19 MIG Orlan.

 

For accuracy>deflection, the bonus gets lower in comparison to the Aumaua not because of the lower chance of hit, but because of the lower chance of miss, which means that the MIG bonus from the Aumaua gets applied more often (whereas the hit conversion stay the same until a difference greater than 51).

Lets assume you have an accuracy = 50 + deflection. You never miss, have 50% chance to hit and 50% chance to crit.

The Orlan with 19 MIG and 30% hits to crit has then on average per attack a multiplier of (1+0.03*9)*((1+0.5*0.3)*0.5 + 1.5*0.5) = 1.68

The Aumaua with 21 MIG and 20% hits to crit has then on average per attack a multiplier of (1+0.03*11)*((1+0.5*0.2)*0.5 + 1.5*0.5) = 1.72

You can see that the Aumaua clearly wins in this case.

 

Actually after calculation, even without base hit to crit conversion and with a 2 MIG gap, the Aumaua always wins the DPS race (lowest difference between the two factors is at accuracy=deflection, 0.889 for the Orlan, 0.898 for the Aumaua).

 

The difference is quite negligible (1-2% increase for the Aumaua in most case) but it doesn't require you to attack the same target as an allie and it grants you an additionnal trait.

 

 

You are right, and I completely forgot about the Orlan's might penaly .  

[Oxford_Guy]

To be honest I think it's much better to go with ranged rogue with  blunderbuss

 

That could be fun, but won't it take while to be able to acquire a blunderbuss and is ammo for that plentiful enough for your main weapon? I think a pistol volley then getting up close and personal with dual stilettos might work better and is covered by one weapon proficiency,no? 

[Yosharian]

 

To be honest I think it's much better to go with ranged rogue with  blunderbuss

 

That could be fun, but won't it take while to be able to acquire a blunderbuss and is ammo for that plentiful enough for your main weapon? I think a pistol volley then getting up close and personal with dual stilettos might work better and is covered by one weapon proficiency,no? 

 

That's kinda where I'm undecided as well, Blunderbuss seems like it's powerful but Pistols + Stilettos is a great efficiency combo...

 

In one of the videos a guy is wielding a mace with a stiletto... not sure what to make of that.

[Gromnir]

I'm not much of a math person myself so I'm not sure, but given your calculation it seems like it's effectively a tossup, probably a bit in favor of the Aumaua.

 

What other penalties are there for having on 3 INT? Still don't much like the idea of a utter moron for my PC, regardless of whether this makes much difference in-game,. though...

 

Low int penalizes AoE and duration - the object of the build being that it doesn't need either. That's more-or-less all.

 

 

well, not exactly.  the 3 int also modifies will saves.  you is gonna start with a 17 will save.  at level 8, your will save is a 38. you can somewhat counter the impact o' near guaranteed failed wills saves by taking bull's will, but that does cost a talent, and talents is vital.  you are gonna face many will saves in the game.  something to consider.  is still a powerful build, but it would be good even w/o tanking int.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Doxy]

 

I'm not much of a math person myself so I'm not sure, but given your calculation it seems like it's effectively a tossup, probably a bit in favor of the Aumaua.

 

What other penalties are there for having on 3 INT? Still don't much like the idea of a utter moron for my PC, regardless of whether this makes much difference in-game,. though...

 

Low int penalizes AoE and duration - the object of the build being that it doesn't need either. That's more-or-less all.

 

 

well, not exactly.  the 3 int also modifies will saves.  you is gonna start with a 17 will save.  at level 8, your will save is a 38. you can somewhat counter the impact o' near guaranteed failed wills saves by taking bull's will, but that does cost a talent, and talents is vital.  you are gonna face many will saves in the game.  something to consider.  is still a powerful build, but it would be good even w/o tanking int.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Yeah, but you counter loss of will by pumping Resolve. Which adds to your will saves.

Thus you're starting with even more  will saves then your default 10res/int stats. Precisely by 5 more with 16 Resolve.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Doxy

[Gromnir]

 

 

I'm not much of a math person myself so I'm not sure, but given your calculation it seems like it's effectively a tossup, probably a bit in favor of the Aumaua.

 

What other penalties are there for having on 3 INT? Still don't much like the idea of a utter moron for my PC, regardless of whether this makes much difference in-game,. though...

 

Low int penalizes AoE and duration - the object of the build being that it doesn't need either. That's more-or-less all.

 

 

well, not exactly.  the 3 int also modifies will saves.  you is gonna start with a 17 will save.  at level 8, your will save is a 38. you can somewhat counter the impact o' near guaranteed failed wills saves by taking bull's will, but that does cost a talent, and talents is vital.  you are gonna face many will saves in the game.  something to consider.  is still a powerful build, but it would be good even w/o tanking int.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Yeah, but you counter loss of will by pumping Resolve. Which adds to your will saves.

Thus you're starting with even more  will saves then your default 10res/int stats. Precisely by 5 more with 16 Resolve.

 

it doesn't quite work out that way, does it?  you actually have worse will saves with the 3/15 split on intelligence and resolve as 'posed to 10/10... but that is precise why it makes sense not to tank int.  take 10 int and 15 resolve (not that we suggest doing so for a rogue) gets you 30 on will saves as 'posed to 17.  regardless, we sure as heck don't want worse than 10/10, but am s'posing we is more concerned with saves than is some other folks.  

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

[gkathellar]

 

 

 

I'm not much of a math person myself so I'm not sure, but given your calculation it seems like it's effectively a tossup, probably a bit in favor of the Aumaua.

 

What other penalties are there for having on 3 INT? Still don't much like the idea of a utter moron for my PC, regardless of whether this makes much difference in-game,. though...

 

Low int penalizes AoE and duration - the object of the build being that it doesn't need either. That's more-or-less all.

 

 

well, not exactly.  the 3 int also modifies will saves.  you is gonna start with a 17 will save.  at level 8, your will save is a 38. you can somewhat counter the impact o' near guaranteed failed wills saves by taking bull's will, but that does cost a talent, and talents is vital.  you are gonna face many will saves in the game.  something to consider.  is still a powerful build, but it would be good even w/o tanking int.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Yeah, but you counter loss of will by pumping Resolve. Which adds to your will saves.

Thus you're starting with even more  will saves then your default 10res/int stats. Precisely by 5 more with 16 Resolve.

 

it doesn't quite work out that way, does it?  you actually have worse will saves with the 3/15 split on intelligence and resolve as 'posed to 10/10... but that is precise why it makes sense not to tank int.  take 10 int and 15 resolve (not that we suggest doing so for a rogue) gets you 30 on will saves as 'posed to 17.  regardless, we sure as heck don't want worse than 10/10, but am s'posing we is more concerned with saves than is some other folks.  

 

*shrug*

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

Pretty sure he's talking about 3 - 18, not 3 - 15. The only reason to stay at 15 is to keep Con at 9, which is pretty pointless.

[Heijoushin]

Quick rogue question! Is a power rogue viable? Like, instead of a speedy dual wielding type, a MIGHTy yet slow rogue that sneak attacks with a giant two handed sword(^^) It seems weird, but in theory, should work right?