Godlike pointless?

[Mr. Magniloquent]

That they felt the need to nerf Moon Godlike is concerning.

 

Aumaua / Orlan racials will probably still be the strongest on release I guess.

 

The Moonlike actually had a racial on-par with what a Godlike should have. This was clearly an exploit. This has since been fixed. Hail Sawyer!

 

I want to cynically laugh at this, but I just can't find it in me. Both are quoted for truth, in any case.

[Bazy]

Fire Godlike is really good for tanking

Silver tide is one of the best heals in the game

[Heijoushin]

My 2 cents:

 

I remember the Drow in IWD2 had these insanely wonderful abilities but the +2 level requirement always put me off so much. In comparison, not wearing helmets seems pretty light. So I guess the abilities also can't be too great. That being said, it's a single player game, so who really cares if it's a little imbalanced? 

 

I'm not a fan of abilities that requirement -50% health or things like that (as Luckmann says, it's not fun having an ability that only kicks in when you're not doing well)

 

The thread title is really mean though;) Poor Godlike!

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

Yeah, I'm convinced that there *is* a good Fire Godlike monk build out there. I'm just not sure what it is.

[Giantevilhead]

Hopefully, there will be items or quest reward talents that affect racial abilities. It would be cool if there was an artifact that made it so that godlike abilities activate earlier, like making it so that the death godlike's ability activates on enemies with less than 50% endurance or nature/fire godlike's ability activates when they're down to 75% endurance.

 

Also, aren't the godlike abilities affected by attributes and talents? Doesn't a moon godlike with high might heal more and a fire godlike do more damage with scion of flame?

[Striped_Wolf]

 

everyone saying nature godlike is bad, how come. Isnt he a pretty good tanking char? after you get down on hp, your damage is boosted, your endurance is boosted, your atack speed, recovery speed is boosted? If i would be doing barb i would surelly consider nature godlike as much as amaua

 

It's bad because it revolves around something that shouldn't happen and for the most time isn't happening. It might arguably be good when it happens, but if that never really happens, and it shouldn't unless you're doing something wrong, it's a pretty **** power.

 

If damage is not a problem, you probably dont need a the bonus anyway.

I do however agree that Godlikes should recieve the racial bonus native to their race on top.

 

And the frequency of the Godlike dialogue specific extras is something that we dont know about yet. It could be a redeeming factor.

 

Edited March 22, 2015 by Striped_Wolf

[Diogenes]

There a Godlike check that lets you light  a torch with your head if you are a Fire Godlike. What more could you need?

[Tamerlane]

There a Godlike check that lets you light  a torch with your head if you are a Fire Godlike. What more could you need?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=TOLV_KI4gcg#t=167

[Mysh]

Have faith guys. If they need anything it will probably a very minor boost. This is far from Godlike being pointless.

[budyn]

Yeah, I'm convinced that there *is* a good Fire Godlike monk build out there. I'm just not sure what it is.

ofc it is, it gives u aoe fire dmg under 50% + treshold. add fire monk passive, and youre a burning machine.I considered that build very hard as my 1st.But i think ill go with wild orlan/human kungfu fighter cause i want to off tank. With godlike i would go full tanky build i suppose to keep him in place in middle of as much opponents as possible.And iam going for POTD TOI EXPERT, so passive builds wont be too good for me i think.I will have to take a risk and jump into 2nd row of enemies with my monk, thus i need him to be off tank and a fast single target killer.

Edited March 22, 2015 by budyn

[Luckmann]

Have faith guys. If they need anything it will probably a very minor boost. This is far from Godlike being pointless.

Thing is, yeah, alright, they're not pointless, in so far that it's largely about roleplaying and the difference won't be huge. Fair enough.

 

But at the same time, there's really no.. mechanical incentive to take the Godlike over anyone else. You're just worse off. I'm not much of a min/maxer when push comes to shove, and I'm not the one that will be taking the best race for the best class 9 times out of 10. But if I give something up, I'd at least want something back. A semblance of balance, it doesn't even need to be truly real.

 

And it's just not there. Godlikes gives up their hats, which sounds like a petty nothing, but at the very least, that's +1 Attribute and something else taped on. At the very least, if they feel they can't balance the racials properly and discounting whatever else a helmet can confer, Godlikes should have a +1 Attribute above the other races.

 

And I still propose that it be split up between the Godlike race, the Godlike types, and the Parent race.

 

Like so:

All Godlikes:
  +1 Resolve (or Con, or Per)
 
Heritage:
  Human:  +1 Resolve.
  Elf:    +1 Dexterity.
  Dwarf:  +1 Constitution.
  Orlan:  +1 Perception.
  Aumaua: +1 Might.
 
Type:
  Deathlike:   +1 Resolve.
  Firelike:    +1 Perception.
  Moonlike:    +1 Intellect.
  Naturelike:  +1 Constitution.
 (Avianlike:   +1 Perception.)

Edited March 22, 2015 by Luckmann

[budyn]

and i still think godlike passives are pretty god damn good

[Luckmann]

and i still think godlike passives are pretty god damn good

 

Then you'd think wrong.

[budyn]

good answer would be ' we will see in the game' cause all you know is some overlvld beta experience my friend

[Luckmann]

good answer would be ' we will see in the game' cause all you know is some overlvld beta experience my friend

 

It could also get worse. Saying "We don't know" really only settles one thing, we don't know. We can only discuss reality as it stands and reality as we want it to become, everything else is moot. There is no reason to believe that things will magically fix themselves if you leave it up to forces beyond your control, in fact I'd say that there's a lot of anecdotal evidence to the contrary, if anything.

[rjshae]

I suppose many of these complaints about the god-like are from the perspective of wanting to min-max your character. What I'm wondering is whether god-like status has any impact on your NPC interactions. I.e. do you get treated any differently because your character is a god-like?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Pointless, you say?

 

Come on! Have you seen one of them Death Godlikes? They are anything but point-less. 

[gkathellar]

Yeah, I'm convinced that there *is* a good Fire Godlike monk build out there. I'm just not sure what it is.

 

You can make a decent case for it on a heavy armor, sword-and-board auto-attacking monk w/Scion of Flames, Cautious Attack, Sword and Shield Style, Turning Wheel, Soul Mirror, Rooting Pain, etc. It works pretty well as a mix of DPS and tank, but I'm not convinced that Fire Godlike adds anything to it.

 

Battle-forged rarely, if ever, comes into play. The thing is, when your tank gets below 50% Endurance, they're probably taking damage way too fast, and you can look forward to either healing them or witnessing their imminent death. That's not just for tanks, really. Battle-forged doesn't so much help you out in a pinch as it does indicate that you need to reverse the circumstances of its coming up ... and so lose its benefits.

 

good answer would be ' we will see in the game' cause all you know is some overlvld beta experience my friend

 

Yes, his opinion is based on the limited experience that is available to him, as opposed to your opinion, which is based on nothing.

 

Pointless, you say?

 

Come on! Have you seen one of them Death Godlikes? They are anything but point-less. 

 

I WILL GRIND YOUR BONES TO BAKE MY BREAD

[Luckmann]

I suppose many of these complaints about the god-like are from the perspective of wanting to min-max your character. [...]

 

For many, maybe, but not for me. I just want there to be a semblance of balance. Yes, this overlaps somewhat with a min/max-ing perspective, but honestly, I don't think anyone can reasonable argue that Godlikes shouldn't be awarded something if they expressly lose something else. The racials and the attribute bonuses are simply not worth losing the headgear for, whether you min/max or not.

 

If it was min/maxing, you would want a specific bonus, so you could stack, for example, Might, or Intellect, or something, but as far as I'm concerned, it could be +1 anything. My suggestion is to make it modular (Godlike Race +1, Godlike Type +1, Parent Race +1) but at the end of the day, they just need something. My suggestion is based on what I think would be interesting, I don't give a hoot on whether it's min/max-y or not, the game is already very min/max-y.

 

Pointless, you say?

 

Come on! Have you seen one of them Death Godlikes? They are anything but point-less.

 

<insert compulsory joke about the size of manhoods here>

 

 

Edit: I just realized that in the coming days, new people that frequent the forums will probably not press my spoilers. Awww.

Edited March 22, 2015 by Luckmann

[budyn]

 

Yeah, I'm convinced that there *is* a good Fire Godlike monk build out there. I'm just not sure what it is.

 

You can make a decent case for it on a heavy armor, sword-and-board auto-attacking monk w/Scion of Flames, Cautious Attack, Sword and Shield Style, Turning Wheel, Soul Mirror, Rooting Pain, etc. It works pretty well as a mix of DPS and tank, but I'm not convinced that Fire Godlike adds anything to it.

 

Battle-forged rarely, if ever, comes into play. The thing is, when your tank gets below 50% Endurance, they're probably taking damage way too fast, and you can look forward to either healing them or witnessing their imminent death. That's not just for tanks, really. Battle-forged doesn't so much help you out in a pinch as it does indicate that you need to reverse the circumstances of its coming up ... and so lose its benefits.

 

good answer would be ' we will see in the game' cause all you know is some overlvld beta experience my friend

 

Yes, his opinion is based on the limited experience that is available to him, as opposed to your opinion, which is based on nothing.

 

Pointless, you say?

 

Come on! Have you seen one of them Death Godlikes? They are anything but point-less. 

 

I WILL GRIND YOUR BONES TO BAKE MY BREAD

 

actually i got some experience aswell, there are movies on youtube, infos on forums etc etc etc.

So no his answer isnt good.And yes we will see how it works in game, not in overlvled beta 1hour experience.

[rjshae]

 

I suppose many of these complaints about the god-like are from the perspective of wanting to min-max your character. [...]

 

For many, maybe, but not for me. I just want there to be a semblance of balance. Yes, this overlaps somewhat with a min/max-ing perspective, but honestly, I don't think anyone can reasonable argue that Godlikes shouldn't be awarded something if they expressly lose something else. The racials and the attribute bonuses are simply not worth losing the headgear for, whether you min/max or not.

 

Right, so you'd be min-maxing by not selecting a god-like specifically because you perceive it isn't quite as good stats-wise as some other race. Not because it isn't fun to play, but because it is 'weaker' in some pretty minor fashion.

[Luckmann]

 

 

I suppose many of these complaints about the god-like are from the perspective of wanting to min-max your character. [...]

 

For many, maybe, but not for me. I just want there to be a semblance of balance. Yes, this overlaps somewhat with a min/max-ing perspective, but honestly, I don't think anyone can reasonable argue that Godlikes shouldn't be awarded something if they expressly lose something else. The racials and the attribute bonuses are simply not worth losing the headgear for, whether you min/max or not.

 

Right, so you'd be min-maxing by not selecting a god-like specifically because you perceive it isn't quite as good stats-wise as some other race. Not because it isn't fun to play, but because it is 'weaker' in some pretty minor fashion.

 

 

Not necessarily. I'm probably going to play a godlike regardless. This in no way invalidates the criticism about it being unbalanced, and nor does it change the feeling that you've been cheated or made a bad decision - knowingly, no less, not by mistake.

[Dr. Hieronymous Alloy]

 

For many, maybe, but not for me. I just want there to be a semblance of balance. Yes, this overlaps somewhat with a min/max-ing perspective, but honestly, I don't think anyone can reasonable argue that Godlikes shouldn't be awarded something if they expressly lose something else. The racials and the attribute bonuses are simply not worth losing the headgear for, whether you min/max or not.

 

If it was min/maxing, you would want a specific bonus, so you could stack, for example, Might, or Intellect, or something, but as far as I'm concerned, it could be +1 anything. My suggestion is to make it modular (Godlike Race +1, Godlike Type +1, Parent Race +1) but at the end of the day, they just need something. My suggestion is based on what I think would be interesting, I don't give a hoot on whether it's min/max-y or not, the game is already very min/max-y.

 

 

 

The more I think about this the less I'm concerned about it, honestly. The thing is, there are like six or seven item slots, and there are only so many possible bonuses from items; you can only have, at most, one buff to each stat, for example. So the loss of the helmet slot is a penalty but it's one that can be gotten around, most likely. We won't really know until we have complete item lists and some experience playing the game but it doesn't seem like as big an issue as I thought it would be at first.

 

 

That said I do like the idea of making the godlike stat benefits more modal, with one +1 based on their godlike type and one +1 based on their base race. So you'd lose the flexibility of the head slot, but gain the flexibility of more choice in your starting max stat.

 

I agree with the above that battle-forged really isn't that great, but what the hell, it's fun, and apparently has been tweaked upwards for release (we'll see how it does).

 

I've been messing around with a fire godlike build with 20 dex, 14 might, 14 resolve, swift strikes, turning wheel, scion of flame. It's a fun build and attacks lots; currently I'm leading my BB group in damage by a significant margin, even with the wizard using AoE's. 

[gkathellar]

@Hieronymous: It's not that these are game-breaking issues, or that they'll prevent you from doing alright in game. Certainly the presence of these issues isn't going to prevent me from playing. Running a suboptimal build is not a death sentence, not even on PotD. What irritates me is that it's bad design, and more importantly, that it's a trap. In a game where all choices are presented as having approximately equal value - and PoE is such a game - the presence of choices that are clearly inferior (even if that inferiority isn't severe) is a problem. It's one thing for informed players to go in saying, "okay, I know godlike are subpar, but I'm going to play one anyway." It's genuinely problematic for uninformed players to stumble onto that realization, however.

[Sherr]

If we talk about characters than the most important thing in this kind of games is to like them. Min-max is part of it, but just as result. And it is psychologically hard to like crappy character. We dont need perfect balance in single-player game, but having races that just straight bad is the worst design.