Can you respec?

[aiqidar]

I just gotta say, I tried playing BG2 with a minmaxed party and it was much less enjoyable than working around the limitations of the recruitable characters in the game.

 

I feel much the same about P:E.

 

Respec would ruin that. If it was in the game, the game would have to take its existence in the account. Not using it would be intentionally gimping myself. That's a completely different experience than trying to make the most of what is in the game.

 

(And, again, I have nothing whatsoever against console cheats, savegame editors, or mods that let you respec to your heart's content. Just not in the 'canonical' game.)

 

I find min-maxing boring myself. In the old D&D-style role-playing games, I would always make sure my characters had a plausible level of Charisma, Intelligence, Wisdom etc. even if they were combat characters that didn't use those abilities at all. And I enjoyed playing like that, even though it made things slightly tougher.

 

However, that's not the main reason that people respec, or use console commands. 90% of the time it'll be because they made a mistake, like a skill that didn't do what they thought it would. This is especially the case for games where a new system has been created. I know this happened in Dragon Age: Origins a lot, and if I recall correcctly they eventually introduced a respec option there as well.

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Interesting that Josh Sawyer is in favour of a respec option. I wonder if it's because of his no bad build philosophy. eg. you fall into a trap build and the respec is a way to get out of it.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Stun]

We would need a link to where that alleged bullet-point presentation of his came from in order to determine such a thing. Also I'd be interested to see what the context here is, since the quote has him saying he's been making RPGs "for 13 years". It must be a really old quote. Sawyer's been making RPGs for almost 20 years.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Stun

[Hiro Protagonist II]

^ Yes, I would like to see this link too.

[Creslin321]

We would need a link to where that alleged bullet-point presentation of his came from in order to determine such a thing. Also I'd be interested to see what the context here is, since the quote has him saying he's been making RPGs "for 13 years". It must be a really old quote. Sawyer's been making RPGs for almost 20 years.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59974-update-021012-project-eternity-known-information/?p=1185160

[Hiro Protagonist II]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/59974-update-021012-project-eternity-known-information/?p=1185160

 

I take Sawyer's quote as not being able to go back and respec companions once you pick them up as that is the base of the companion when they join your party. eg. If Sagani is a ranged character, that's part of her base characteristics. However, you can respec advancements once you get the companion in your party. Maybe Josh can come online and explain more in detail what he includes in 'base' and when does 'advancements' come into play.

Edited March 29, 2015 by Hiro Protagonist II

[Gromnir]

got the reckless assault bug that has, for all intents and purposes, doubled our deflection penalty to -16.  a respec would be welcome as there is no console fix and am not sure how much longer am gonna keep playing a character that is broken to this degree.

[Mythrell]

Ok, so no respec but instead we can make custom adventurers in every inn. That's not cheesy at all.. Imo there should be ability to respec everyone once. It's just stupid to play the game half through and realize that stuff you picked at the beginning wasn't important at all or you just didn't understand how the system works. And once per game limit just to make it a real decision to do it instead of just doing it before every battle. 

[Gromnir]

people seem mighty confused by the obscure poe mechanics.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74815-accuracy/?p=1632949

 

heck, Gromnir played the beta and followed the development reasonably (unreasonably?) close, and we can't give an explanation as to what the improved interrupt talent does.

 

take a looksee at the tech support portion o' the board. given all the stuff that is still not working right and recognizing how 1.03 rebalanced a multitude o' talents, abilities, spells and weapons, a respec option would be welcome right about now, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Namutree]

people seem mighty confused by the obscure poe mechanics.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74815-accuracy/?p=1632949

 

heck, Gromnir played the beta and followed the development reasonably (unreasonably?) close, and we can't give an explanation as to what the improved interrupt talent does.

 

take a looksee at the tech support portion o' the board. given all the stuff that is still not working right and recognizing how 1.03 rebalanced a multitude o' talents, abilities, spells and weapons, a respec option would be welcome right about now, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

Under these circumstances; sure. You might have been screwed by the patches. Hm, I didn't even think of that before.

[pstone]

take a looksee at the tech support portion o' the board. given all the stuff that is still not working right and recognizing how 1.03 rebalanced a multitude o' talents, abilities, spells and weapons, a respec option would be welcome right about now, eh?

 

 

Sure, but you can already respec using IE Mod, appearantly it won''t even disable achievements

[Gromnir]

 

take a looksee at the tech support portion o' the board. given all the stuff that is still not working right and recognizing how 1.03 rebalanced a multitude o' talents, abilities, spells and weapons, a respec option would be welcome right about now, eh?

 

 

Sure, but you can already respec using IE Mod, appearantly it won''t even disable achievements

 

the console we will use, but mods?  am not very trusting of mods, particularly early. in the beta, the ie mod auto-"fixed" some stuff that we didn't want adjusted.  at least the earliest incarnations did so. am doubting the ie mod fixes the reckless assault stacking bug. the console, on the other hand, doesn't fix many problems.   a respec option that woulda' reset us to level 1 or 2 and wiped the character clean strikes us as a useful feature in a game such as this... a game that predictably were gonna have bugs and rebalance issues.

 

built in limited respec is far more user friendly and for those concerned with potential for exploitation, a single respec is hardly a noteworthy concern.

 

and for those wacky folks who is offended by the mere presence o' respec but not by the console or the availability o' the ie mod, there is no response as their feel concerns is not based on anything rational and is thus irrefutable.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[pstone]

the console we will use, but mods?  am not very trusting of mods, particularly early. in the beta, the ie mod auto-"fixed" some stuff that we didn't want adjusted.

 

Well, i just use the mod for resetting companions, and had no problems so far. The first version forced some HUD changes, but they are now optional. Doesn't mean i wouldn't like to see an ingame option, i just don't intend to wait for it.

Edited April 4, 2015 by pstone

[TinyBitHandsome]

How about allowing companions to respec but limit what and how much can be respec?

Or quest driven where you have to take the companion character through a series of events to allowed them to be played differently.
Add consequences to respeccing a companion character. Example: their main story would change in one way or another, maybe they're no longer accepted as a member of whatever society they were involved in, maybe your team gets attacked because your companions have made enemies by changing their role within the game world,.....etc....be creative.

[Gromnir]

How about allowing companions to respec but limit what and how much can be respec?

Or quest driven where you have to take the companion character through a series of events to allowed them to be played differently.

Add consequences to respeccing a companion character. Example: their main story would change in one way or another, maybe they're no longer accepted as a member of whatever society they were involved in, maybe your team gets attacked because your companions have made enemies by changing their role within the game world,.....etc....be creative.

am not seeing a motivation to be creative.  the game is predictably leaving more than a few folks with characters that do not play as any reasonable player would expect.  numerous talents, abilities and powers do not work as they is described, or the descriptions o' such is based on beta builds in the 300s and is misleading at best.  developer error has resulted in players having their role-play choices thwarted.  so, as between offering a fix for folks who is understandably displeased 'cause o' mistakes not their own or accommodating the feel nonsense o' a bunch o' paternalistic nincompoops who thinks respec is cheating or who believes that the mere presence o' a feature they would never use diminishes their gaming experience... well, we think the choice is an easy one for any rational developer to be making.  poe should be yet another example to obsidian why the console is inadequate and a respec function would be a boon to many... too many.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stun]

Indeed, lets ask them to divert their time and funds away from actually fixing those bugs in order to design, create and implement a respec feature that will let us work around them. Then lets pray that the respec feature itself comes to us bug-free and doesn't make the situation worse.

 

Gloriously short-sighted. I like it! lol

Edited April 12, 2015 by Stun

[TinyBitHandsome]

Lol, one can't please everybody.

 

For PoE, I think the game is fine the way it is.

 

These respec "features" I'm referring to could, maybe, be in the planning process for future titles?
I think it would be interesting and adds an extra dimension to character development. Say, you play one playthrough without respeccing your companion to experience their main story. You play a second play through and respec them just to experience their alternative personality and story. You can even ask them, "What the heck happened to you? I thought you were nice."
They can respond with, "You know nothing about me!!!!"

I just think that instead of dismissing something altogether as "broken." We should come up with alternatives to making it work. As far as respec goes, I think it you set limitation, cause and effects, consequences, and drive it with stories and events. It would be interesting.

Meh, just ideas. 

[KingNee]

First things first, they need to release a fix for the respec option they're about to introduce a few patches from now. 

[jepeman]

It would have been lovely if every companion you get would start at level 1 BUT still have the same amount of exp as you do at the moment of recruiting, allowing the player to choose their skills, spells, and feats.

I got my last companion at level 9 and some of her selections were a bit questionable...

 

Alternatively a respec option would also obviously be nice.

[Gromnir]

Indeed, lets ask them to divert their time and funds away from actually fixing those bugs in order to design, create and implement a respec feature that will let us work around them. Then lets pray that the respec feature itself comes to us bug-free and doesn't make the situation worse.

 

Gloriously short-sighted. I like it! lol

opposite of myopic.  am not thinking you know what short-sighted means anymore than you understood strawman.  figures pj would like.

 

is taking the long view to realize that poe would have many broken and busted features.  is taking long view to add such a feature, a feature that shows up in many games and which you has not shown the man-hour implementation o' such a feature to be particularly egregious.  every feature added is subject to cost v. benefit.  duh.  is taking long view to realize that a limited respec function would/could alleviate much o' the frustration and disappointment a considerable number o' role-players must need have endured because o' the predictable (Gromnir predicted, so am betting the developers were less myopic than stun) developer error.  is long view thinking to recognize that a respec bandaid would give the developers more flexibility in fixing post release bugs as  respec would at least alleviate (though not eliminate) the unfortunate impact o' developer error on player builds.  

 

however, we do applaud you for abandoning the cheater nonsense.  that deserves reinforcement.

 

*hands stun a cookie*

 

baby steps, eh?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Stun]

You're right Gromnir. When faced with a bunch of bugs, it's much better that Obsidian spend their time creating new content and mechanics instead of fixing those bugs.

 

Long term thinking. Yep.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Stun

[Gromnir]

eh?  am saying the feature shoulda' been in the game already and should be in future games.  at this point the issue is largely moot.  how short-sighted of you.  nevertheless, it were short-sighted to think the console would suffice.  it were short-sighted o' you to believe poe wouldn't be any less subject to post release developer rebalancing (which we saw you mewling about in another thread) as a host o' other games.  were short-sighted to think poe would be noticeably less frustrating for perfectly reasonable players who had their role-play choices invalidated by developer error.  

 

yes, fix for the expansion and future releases is long term thinkig.  realizing that the absence o' long term thinking on the part o' the developers means that we need wait for expansions or sequel to finally get a feature that a long term thinker would have added without much debate is proving our point and not yours.

 

am thinking you don't deserve the cookie.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[InfiniteEternity]

 

It was going to be in the game, but it was cut.

 

Really? I find that doubtful, since it's fairly well-established in CRPG circles that respeccing is the devil.

 

Oh you mean 1 out of 1000 who are the vocal minority

 

"because lore forbids it"?

[Stun]

at this point the issue is largely moot.

Indeed. You want something. But they're not going to give it to you. Perhaps it's time now to stop and realize that they actually DID offer you a reasonable compromise to a respec feature. It's right there in the game and it DOES allow you to work around "broken skills" even if you can't fix them.

 

Try the adventurer creation system. Seriously. In my current playthrough, I got Grieving Mother a little late (she was already 7th level), and she was horribly built. But I really wanted a Cipher. So I just ran up the road to the Inn, bought myself a level 7 adventurer, and built him from scratch, from the ground up, to be a truly optimal Cipher. Problem solved.

[Gromnir]

 

at this point the issue is largely moot.

Indeed. You want something. But they're not going to give it to you. Perhaps it's time now to stop and realize that they actually DID offer you a reasonable compromise to a respec feature. It's right there in the game and it DOES allow you to work around "broken skills" even if you can't fix them.

 

Try the adventurer creation system. Seriously. In my current playthrough, I got Grieving Mother a little late (she was already 7th level), and she was horribly built. But I really wanted a Cipher. So I just ran up the road to the Inn, bought myself a level 7 adventurer, and built him from scratch, from the ground up, to be a truly optimal Cipher. Problem solved.

 

that is a rather Short sighted (and unsatisfactory) solution.  you see the difference between short sighted and long term yet?

 

and yes, once the game is released w/o respec, it is obvious that this game doesn't have respec.  again, duh.  am not sure if you are being intentional obtuse.  is any number o' features that ain't in this game but should be.  is a number o' features in this game that should be changed.  that is kinda the point o' providing feedback, yes?

 

*zoom*

 

right over stun's head.

 

HA! Good Fun!