Petition : Make Looting functions optional.

[gkathellar]

Does the cursor (on hover) indicate if a container/corpse is lootable? Are the loot sparkles optional?

 

Containers are indicated by a hovering cursor (or the TAB key) pretty much as you'd expect in an IE game. There's translucent blue shading over the container; or green shading if it's locked. An empty container (except for a corpse, which ceases to be a container on emptying) is a pale white shade, though, which is a nice visual cue for "you have dealt with this already."

 

Note that only corpses have loot sparkles. Containers in general do not.

[Valsuelm]

Does the cursor (on hover) indicate if a container/corpse is lootable? Are the loot sparkles optional?

 

God I hope so on those sparkles. While I can appreciate sparkles in some contexts, sparkles on corpses or game loot in general is definitely not one of them.

 

On the general subject of loot. IE games did it better than any other RPG games out there I've come across with the exceptions of the tedium one encountered in shops (simply allowing the buying of more than one item at a time would have gone a long way), and one might encounter when managing their inventory. For the latter an on toggle (meaning not always active) auto sort for the party as well as individual characters would have been all that was needed. But these were UI issues/improvements. Insofar as how the character interacted with loot in the game, and how loot appeared in the game it was done no better in any other RPG game I've seen . If what we have in PoE is glowing piles that all look the same (ala NWN2), this is the opposite of an improvement over what IE had.

 

Edit: Divinity: Original Sin, seems to do it just as well as the IE games did, insofar as loot interaction and how it appears. Actually maybe even better as there seems to be even more differentiating in the way loot appears on the ground than even the IE games had, which would have been the direction expected Obsidian to go. Note that I'm only a few hours into D:OS so I may have an incomplete picture at this point.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Valsuelm

[Azmodiuz]

 

Does the cursor (on hover) indicate if a container/corpse is lootable? Are the loot sparkles optional?

 

God I hope so on those sparkles. While I can appreciate sparkles in some contexts, sparkles on corpses or game loot in general is definitely not one of them.

 

On the general subject of loot. IE games did it better than any other RPG games out there I've come across with the exceptions of the tedium one encountered in shops (simply allowing the buying of more than one item at a time would have gone a long way), and one might encounter when managing their inventory. For the latter an on toggle (meaning not always active) auto sort for individual characters as well as the party would have been all that was needed. But these were UI issues/improvements. Insofar as how the character interacted with loot in the game, and how loot appeared in the game it was done no better in any other RPG game I've seen. If what we have in PoE is glowing piles that all look the same (ala NWN2), this is the opposite of an improvement over what IE had.

 

 

Yeah, you actually saw what sort of thing dropped in IE games. If it was just arrows or another gemstone or rings or leather armor etc... even if it was multiple, you could tell. They did have it better then any other game has ever done so far.

 

I wish the things we killed didn't disapear either. At least not the way they do.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Azmodiuz

[gkathellar]

 

Does the cursor (on hover) indicate if a container/corpse is lootable? Are the loot sparkles optional?

 

God I hope so on those sparkles. While I can appreciate sparkles in some contexts, sparkles on corpses or game loot in general is definitely not one of them.

 

On the general subject of loot. IE games did it better than any other RPG games out there I've come across with the exceptions of the tedium one encountered in shops (simply allowing the buying of more than one item at a time would have gone a long way), and one might encounter when managing their inventory. For the latter an on toggle (meaning not always active) auto sort for individual characters as well as the party would have been all that was needed. But these were UI issues/improvements. Insofar as how the character interacted with loot in the game, and how loot appeared in the game it was done no better in any other RPG game I've seen. If what we have in PoE is glowing piles that all look the same (ala NWN2), this is the opposite of an improvement over what IE had.

 

 

As of the BB, it's really just that the corpses are selectable like any other container until emptied. I would tell you if the sparkles can be turned off, but I honestly do not care enough to load up the beta just to find out.

 

(Also, you actually can buy more than one of an item in the IE games. Double-clicking will bring up a quantity window that you can adjust that from.)

[Mlatimudan]

What sane person cares enough about who had what loot to want to check every individual corpse, to presumably make a note of it in their diary or something, but not enough to look at his/her opponents while fighting to figure out who has a sword and who has a hammer.

 

Perhaps you don't want to spoil the corpse checking so you have a friend kill them so you can loot with all the joy and enthusiasm of an old lady watching the tv to see if today is finally the day her lottery numbers are drawn.

[Gairnulf]

The sparkles can't be turned off, but I guess they can be modded away. I dislike them but can live with them. I suppose the sparkles along with the bigger than average loot containers sprite are connected to the lack of separate sprites for different types of loot.

[Lephys]

Here's what I expect area looting to turn into and that's why I'm skeptical towards it.

 

You have four loot containers and you have to guess and try to click such a loot container as to select all or most of them, but you don't know in advance if this is possible.

 

The end result being that you still click on every container, only you are not really sure if what you're seeing isn't something you just saw when you were clicking at the last container, because the loot interface won't just show you the container you clicked but also the other container:

 

-diagram-

 

So in a situation with four loot containers you are blind guessing which one you should click first and which other containers will its 3m radius include.

 

That's what I call confusing and that's the main reason I don't like the idea. It's got nothing to do with nostalgia and much to do with common sense.

 

In this example you would need at least two clicks to check all containers, and that is if you were able to tell which containers you are seeing with each click. In reality most people would click all containers anyway, just to be sure they aren't missing anything.

That's a reasonable concern. However, to that I would say:

 

A) All the containers are hand-placed, so they can just never place them like that, since they know their own design of their own game.

B) All corpses have "you didn't loot this yet" indicators on them, so you're pretty much going to know which corpses you've check and which ones you haven't. UNLESS they glow as long as they have stuff on them? In which case, it could still be a problem.

[Cantousent]

I don't know.  I mean, it's a tossup as to which would be worse.  Sometimes you could intentionally leave something on a corpse to get later.  Except I think your stash doesn't have any weight, size, or shape limit?  In which case, I guess it would be better if the glow left after you checked the corpse because there's no reason to return to it afterwards.  Still theoretically could be an issue.  ...But we're deep in the weeds with some of this stuff.  Worrying about the glow on corpses going away after looting just seems trivial to me.  I guess trivial in the eye of the beholder.  :Cant's shrugging icon:

 

EDIT:  hehe  thought "I man" might be confusing to tidied it up.

[Lephys]

I'm not worried about it. I'm simply observing that, if the glow only indicates a "new" lootable corpse, then the player would immediately know which corpses he had checked. In other words, if the area-loot displayed is from 1 corpse or 1,000 corpses, once you looked at that set of loot, then left, some number of corpses would cease glowing, so you'd know which ones you had checked and which ones you hadn't. You wouldn't have to wonder "wait... was THAT guy within 3M or not? I mean, he looks REALLY close, but...".

 

However, if they glow until you take all their stuff, then anyone who doesn't take all their stuff would potentially run into a problem.

 

Sure, it might be a 5 second problem, but it's the principle of the thing. "Could there be a system in which that problem doesn't even exist, and would that be an easy system to implement in place of this one?" is hardly a silly question, I don't think. If it was "I don't even care how complex it is or how long it takes, but MAKE THAT PROBLEM GO AWAY!", then that would be silly. 8P

[Gairnulf]

A) All the containers are hand-placed, so they can just never place them like that, since they know their own design of their own game.

By "loot containers" I mean the corpses of dead enemies.

From what I understand, the 3m rule is only applied to dead enemies' loot containers and not applied to chests, cupboards and the like. This would be a whole new level of confusing.

 

B) All corpses have "you didn't loot this yet" indicators on them, so you're pretty much going to know which corpses you've check and which ones you haven't.

This isn't true in the current version of the BB. Either they have said that what you describe is how loot sparkling will function in the final game and I don't know about it (have they?), or you're not completely clear on how loot sparkling functions right now.

 

All loot containers have an animation of yellow sparkles raising from the loot container. I think this animation was justified by Josh at some point as being related to the lore (something to do with the souls of killed enemy creatures).

 

But the sparkles don't go away after you open and close the loot container once - which is ironically in tune with the lore aspect - there are sparkles no matter how many times you open and close the container. The sparkles only go away when the container is empty and then you can no longer open it.

 

Bottom line - you can't tell which loot containers you have already accessed and closed without picking up everything from them, and which you have never accessed. They all look the same. And I imagine this will be confusing to players. Unless players choose the path of least resistance, like most people tend to do, and take advantage of their unlimited inventory, so they just vacuum every bit of loot they come across in the game.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Lephys]

By "loot containers" I mean the corpses of dead enemies.

From what I understand, the 3m rule is only applied to dead enemies' loot containers and not applied to chests, cupboards and the like. This would be a whole new level of confusing.

I was just covering it in case, since I wasn't certain you didn't JUST mean corpses. I have no idea whether or not the mechanic covers non-corpses, but it's pretty moot either way.

 

This isn't true in the current version of the BB. Either they have said that what you describe is how loot sparkling will function in the final game and I don't know about it (have they?), or you're not completely clear on how loot sparkling functions right now.

I kind of thought this:

 

UNLESS they glow as long as they have stuff on them? In which case, it could still be a problem.

... conveyed my uncertainty about that, as well. I guess not. *shrug*. BUT, I do appreciate the confirmation of how it works. Also, I guess I should've said "would" there, instead of "could still be a problem."

[Gairnulf]

Oh, I thought you had beta access and just had overlooked how loot sparkles work.

 

BTW, it's still completely possible to send loot to the stash when in the wilderness, and when you come back to town, access your stash without problem to move items into the inventory to sell them. Actually I'm pretty sure you can sell directly from the stash too.

 

On one hand I know that after all these items have been put in the game for the players, so not collecting them is similar to deliberately skipping content, but on the other, I fear that all these conveniences for players will lead to the player raising such a large fortune and so soon, that money will stop being an object, and this will make the game as a whole somewhat less interesting. But I've explained this point enough times already.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Azmodiuz]

Oh, I thought you had beta access and just had overlooked how loot sparkles work.

 

BTW, it's still completely possible to send loot to the stash when in the wilderness, and when you come back to town, access your stash without problem to move items into the inventory to sell them. Actually I'm pretty sure you can sell directly from the stash too.

 

On one hand I know that after all these items have been put in the game for the players, so not collecting them is similar to deliberately skipping content, but on the other, I fear that all these conveniences for players will lead to the player raising such a large fortune and so soon, that money will stop being an object, and this will make the game as a whole somewhat less interesting. But I've explained this point enough times already.

There are many gold sinks, like food, and enchanting, and upkeep on your keep/castle and upgrades, plus normal equipment etc...  plus resting at inns.. people won't be so rich as to not know what to do, if I had to guess.

 

And you can sell from stash directly when with a merchant, there is an icon that shows the stash icon...

 

There is also an option to use stash while in the wilderness or no matter where you are, so its not just a stash while in the city, if you need this convenience. For me, I plan to only enable this after I get the keep, in which case I justify it as a lord is / was usually accompanied by a wagon and cart and others in old times, when travelling. Before that, I will assume I'm too lowly and poor to have a cart with myself. 

 

I enjoy imposing small restrictions and things like this on myself when I play, gives me extra things to look forward to and obstacles to overcome and rewards once I get there. I'm all about the RP.

[Cantousent]

As an aside, I think it would be funny if the upkeep on your stronghold was actually difficult. You know, took some skill to make it profitable, otherwise it barely or doesn't even break even.  Imagine the howls of folks whose strongholds were foreclosed on them!  lol  I don't see it happening, but it's a funny thought.

 

Sorry, back to looting, it's just hard to see exactly how it will work because they couldn't get it done to put in the latest beta build.

[Tamerlane]

Merge Pillars of Eternity with Cities: Skylines.

 

"****, traveling merchants are clogging up the road into my stronghold. Time to restart."

[Lephys]

Oh, I thought you had beta access and just had overlooked how loot sparkles work.

That's actually true, more or less. I do have beta access, but I wouldn't say "overlooked." More just, "I've never picked up less-than-everything when looting a corpse, so I'd have to check to say for sure." Hence the "unless it works like this" clause I tacked on. I realized I was assuming how it worked, since I'd never tested the other situation. 8P

 

Sorry about that.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Lephys

[Rumsteak]

I for one am happy with the area looting feature. Nothing much to add really.

I have a feeling that this feature will be appreciated by the majority of players. We'll see.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Rumsteak

[Azmodiuz]

As an aside, I think it would be funny if the upkeep on your stronghold was actually difficult. You know, took some skill to make it profitable, otherwise it barely or doesn't even break even.  Imagine the howls of folks whose strongholds were foreclosed on them!  lol  I don't see it happening, but it's a funny thought.

 

Sorry, back to looting, it's just hard to see exactly how it will work because they couldn't get it done to put in the latest beta build.

 

Thats what bothers me. We have been testing for almost a year, and last minute that was thrown in AFTER... but guess its water under a bridge now. They said they will make the feature they are describing/adding optional in a future patch.

[Gairnulf]

As an aside, I think it would be funny if the upkeep on your stronghold was actually difficult.

Yep, it would be, but doesn't seem like it will be. I already wrote about that - we get the stronghold around the middle of the critical path, upgrades cost from near a thousand up to a few thousand cp and give boosts of a 3-4 points to stronghold stats. At the same time it costs 75cp to remove an equal-sized penalty to stats (pay off the drunkard). At first glance, these prices pose virtually no challenge for someone who has been even moderately thorough in looting stuff up to this point in the game.

 

There are many gold sinks, like food, and enchanting, and upkeep on your keep/castle and upgrades, plus normal equipment etc...  plus resting at inns.. people won't be so rich as to not know what to do, if I had to guess.

 

[...]

 

I enjoy imposing small restrictions and things like this on myself when I play, gives me extra things to look forward to and obstacles to overcome and rewards once I get there. I'm all about the RP.

I start the BB with 2800-something cp and by the time I had finished all quests in it I had over 20 000cp. The most expensive room at the Inn costs 250 (or 280?) cp, and I didn't use food buffs.

Edited March 16, 2015 by Gairnulf

[Bryy]

Merge Pillars of Eternity with Cities: Skylines.

 

"****, traveling merchants are clogging up the road into my stronghold. Time to restart."

.... I'd play this game.

[Messier-31]

You made a Change.Org for this?

 

Edited March 16, 2015 by Messier-31

[gkathellar]

Merge Pillars of Eternity with Cities: Skylines.

 

"****, traveling merchants are clogging up the road into my stronghold. Time to restart."

 

... Dwarf Fortress?

[Azmodiuz]

 

As an aside, I think it would be funny if the upkeep on your stronghold was actually difficult.

Yep, it would be, but doesn't seem like it will be. I already wrote about that - we get the stronghold around the middle of the critical path, upgrades cost from near a thousand up to a few thousand cp and give boosts of a 3-4 points to stronghold stats. At the same time it costs 75cp to remove an equal-sized penalty to stats (pay off the drunkard). At first glance, these prices pose virtually no challenge for someone who has been even moderately thorough in looting stuff up to this point in the game.

 

There are many gold sinks, like food, and enchanting, and upkeep on your keep/castle and upgrades, plus normal equipment etc...  plus resting at inns.. people won't be so rich as to not know what to do, if I had to guess.

 

[...]

 

I enjoy imposing small restrictions and things like this on myself when I play, gives me extra things to look forward to and obstacles to overcome and rewards once I get there. I'm all about the RP.

I start the BB with 2800-something cp and by the time I had finished all quests in it I had over 20 000cp. The most expensive room at the Inn costs 250 (or 280?) cp, and I didn't use food buffs.

 

 

I personally believe, the issue is "being able to thoroughly loot everything" in IE games, you only had so much inventory.  If they want to give us a cart, fine, then make a cart visual and following us, and make it affected by terrain, and have things attack it, with chances for everything to be destroyed, add random encounters from brigands too while world mapping....

[gkathellar]

 

 

As an aside, I think it would be funny if the upkeep on your stronghold was actually difficult.

Yep, it would be, but doesn't seem like it will be. I already wrote about that - we get the stronghold around the middle of the critical path, upgrades cost from near a thousand up to a few thousand cp and give boosts of a 3-4 points to stronghold stats. At the same time it costs 75cp to remove an equal-sized penalty to stats (pay off the drunkard). At first glance, these prices pose virtually no challenge for someone who has been even moderately thorough in looting stuff up to this point in the game.

 

There are many gold sinks, like food, and enchanting, and upkeep on your keep/castle and upgrades, plus normal equipment etc...  plus resting at inns.. people won't be so rich as to not know what to do, if I had to guess.

 

[...]

 

I enjoy imposing small restrictions and things like this on myself when I play, gives me extra things to look forward to and obstacles to overcome and rewards once I get there. I'm all about the RP.

I start the BB with 2800-something cp and by the time I had finished all quests in it I had over 20 000cp. The most expensive room at the Inn costs 250 (or 280?) cp, and I didn't use food buffs.

 

 

I personally believe, the issue is "being able to thoroughly loot everything" in IE games, you only had so much inventory.  If they want to give us a cart, fine, then make a cart visual and following us, and make it affected by terrain, and have things attack it, with chances for everything to be destroyed, add random encounters from brigands too while world mapping....

 

 

Other demands along the same lines:

• Hunger and thirst mechanics.
• Hypothermia and hyperthermia rules.
• Mud slowdown for characters traveling on dirt paths in the rain.
• A minigame for repairing the damage to your armor after a fight.
• Social penalties for failing to bathe.
• Characters who don't use the restroom regularly should acquire the "Constipated" condition.

[Azmodiuz]

Loot is a big thing in these sort of games. Being able to hold endless loot and loot really really easy, is removing the major obstacle that was present in the old games. Not only did we have limited space, we had limited weight too. So you can be a douche and flame me with your sarcasm, but they made a promise to deliver a game that would be a spiritual successor, and be very much like the old games, aside from not actually being the old games. This was a mechanic present in ALL of them, that was fairly very very well understood, and had no issues, was well balanced, and had its place. merchants had limited coins too. 

 

It is no longer the same at all. We can loot all, loot an area, hold endless weight, have a huge storage, we can even craft in the middle of no where, currency has become almost meaningless, as we will have near infinite just like the merchants. In one small town alone, a party can come to and leave with 20,000-30,000 coins like in the beta. you have near nothing and a few short hours later after purchasing all the crazy gear you can find and all potions of value, your still filthy rich. 

now, if merchants didn't have bottomless pits of coins, we would have to travel more to sell stuff, until everyone runs out everywhere or they get more, but it might get to a point, we no longer bother to pick up mundane armors off of corpses and small stuff like that. Maybe we would take our time looting and pick and choose instead of loot all, maybe even ignoring all the generic cut and paste guards and just try and loot the notable npc's. 

 

Its a downward spiral, the changes they made. And it becomes less and less like the older games, and more and more like the newer games that have becomes forgotten in much less time, more mediocre, more generic, more just like everything else. Look at Diablo3, which has many of the new features we're seeing being put into this game PoE.. area looting, maybe eventually autoloot...theres a loot all button so far. Both have stashes to hold extra, though PoE goes much further in that direction then Diablo. Both have no weight or size restriction to the items too. If you find a house, you can stick it on your belt or in your bag or in your stash, no problem. Maybe even more if they're made stackable. 

 

This also makes the more mundane objects less valuable. but in IWD and BG games, you could use and would use mundane items much more often. Unt il part 2 of either game, I would actually finish with characters still using non-magical gear, maybe not all gear but, some would have a non magical weapon or fullplate. Still used regular arrows. We do not even USE ammunitions in PoE. Guns even exist yet no ammunition exists. 

Also, maybe not entirely related, in PoE you can't wear an amulet and have the cloak visual at same time because cloaks and amulets take up the same item slot. This is annoying. It is also very unlike the original games. I do not understand the reasoning for it either. Its as if they wanted to piss the fans off.