BruceVC Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Why would it be offensive otherwise, though? I just find it crass and overdone, here is this women with massive breast who basically looks like an Anime porn star doing this twirl and then landing on her back and spreading her legs while some white energy flows into her vagina And I have nothing against hot pornstars with large breasts but come one....this is suppose to be a video that encourages diversity and wants both male and female fans Does this game have a large female support base ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Longknife Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I like how women who embrace and enjoy their sexuality are supposedly a myth. "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?
BruceVC Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I would like Alumin to comment on that animation and see what he thinks, he is very good at articulating SJ issues in a way that makes sense. I admit I may be wrong about my criticism but I doubt it "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Amentep Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Does this game have a large female support base ? I've seen some women support it and some women not support it. I'm not sure "support" really matters since everyone views things subjectively anyhow. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
BruceVC Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Does this game have a large female support base ? I've seen some women support it and some women not support it. I'm not sure "support" really matters since everyone views things subjectively anyhow. Whats your view on that animation in this link Amentep, I consider you a reasonable and rationale person so your opinion is important https://archive.today/ojKb6 Edited March 19, 2015 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Amentep Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Whats your view on that animation in this link Amentep, I consider you a reasonable and rationale person so your opinion is important I'm loathe to comment on the animation without any context to understand it. Its very easy to take a snip of something without context and then mentally create the context for it. Edit: Typo Edited March 19, 2015 by Amentep I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Longknife Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Does this game have a large female support base ? I've seen some women support it and some women not support it. I'm not sure "support" really matters since everyone views things subjectively anyhow. I would like to highlight how ridiculous this is. "I've seen some women support it and some women not support it." So you mean, just like men? How some men would like the game and some wouldn't? AKA, there's basically no connection whatsoever between gender and approval of that game, and it'd be better to try and draw a correlation between someone's moral views and their support of their game? Compare this to all the guys I had asking me for tips talking to women in high school that would ask "what do women want," as if foolishly expecting some universal answer that ALL WOMEN IN THE HISTORY OF FOREVER would fall head over heels for. This is stupid, naive, and has a tone of thinking women are so simple that they can be universally explained, and are by no means as unique and diverse as men. How is Bruce's question of "does it have a large female support base" have a tone that's any different? It's implying that women are going to - for the most part - universally agree on whether a game is good or bad based on one singular aspect of the game: sexuality. Yes, because it defines them right? And they all have the same hivemind opinion? They won't care about the gameplay or soundtrack or difficulty or graphics, they'll just first and foremost care about the size of the protagonist's **** and either approve or disapprove of the game based on that. It's the same damned thing. It's just as ignorant as those 16 year old dudes I had to listen to prod me for some universal answer that unlocks the secret to attracting all females. It's this ignorant belief (or implication here) that women are going to flock towards one ideology over another or one stance on sexuality over another. No, that's stupid. That's not how it works. I have a friend who regularly partakes in phone sex and will even show me her new bras when I visit to ask if they're sexy (and no, we're not dating or in a relationship or anything, she's just naturally flirty), I have another who dare not speak about anything sexual....yknow, just like how I know white knight guys who dare not even jokingly call a female friend a bad name, then I know others who're very bold and use such bad names believing it'll net them the girl faster. Stop reducing people down to nothing but gender, because people are diverse, and one's gender does not validate their opinion moreso than the opinion of someone from the opposite gender. This is not about gender. It never was. This is about a group of people forcing their moral code into the center stage. Jesus Christ, some days I wake up and feel as though a good portion of men are never speaking or conversing with women, and it never ceases to blow my mind how that happens. "The Courier was the worst of all of them. The worst by far. When he died the first time, he must have met the devil, and then killed him." Is your mom hot? It may explain why guys were following her ?
Amentep Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Does this game have a large female support base ? I've seen some women support it and some women not support it. I'm not sure "support" really matters since everyone views things subjectively anyhow. I would like to highlight how ridiculous this is. "I've seen some women support it and some women not support it." So you mean, just like men? Yes, I do. I think we need to be clear that race and gender (and even philosophical belief) does not make us monolithic group entities devoid of personal thought or taste. I find the idea that you have to agree to A or else you're not B to be a scary notion and unfortunately one that is being pushed all to often within these online debates*. *I'd argue that its also the chief reason people have an "us vs them" mentality with respect to these events and in particular (and worrying, IMO) are perfectly willing to not listen to anything the other side says. EDIT: Typos Edited March 19, 2015 by Amentep I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Hurlshort Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Why do you guys keep letting Bruce troll you? Bayonetta is not supposed to be rational or reasonable, she has gun heels for goodness sake. The series is supposed to be ridiculous. It's ridiculous as this conversation. If you take any time to seriously criticize or defend Bayonetta, you have already lost. 2
Amentep Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 If you take any time to seriously criticize or defend Bayonetta, you have already lost. Wouldn't, logically, this argument be applied to all of video gaming? Its frivolous so why debate it? And sports? And TV? And Movies? 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
BruceVC Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Why do you guys keep letting Bruce troll you? Bayonetta is not supposed to be rational or reasonable, she has gun heels for goodness sake. The series is supposed to be ridiculous. It's ridiculous as this conversation. If you take any time to seriously criticize or defend Bayonetta, you have already lost. Well I have never played the game and know nothing about the character so my criticism was valid IMO. I am not trolling but do have an issue with it And it cant be so inexplicable that this animation raises criticism as its on that link HUFF POST Tech link..unless you think that lady journalist is also trolling? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
BruceVC Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 If you take any time to seriously criticize or defend Bayonetta, you have already lost. Wouldn't, logically, this argument be applied to all of video gaming? Its frivolous so why debate it? And sports? And TV? And Movies? QFT...well said Amentep "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela
Nonek Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 So now a female game character, ridiculously powerful and stylised, designed by a woman and seen as a great character by many people has to dress down and not display or exult in her own virtual sexuality...because that is deemed problematic? She should conform, not display any flesh and get herself to a nunnery because abusers of women don't like to see their targets being strong, individual and independent. Unless paid to be so. Otherwise they're asking for it right? Unbelievable medieval mindset. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Amentep Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) So now a female game character, ridiculously powerful and stylised, designed by a woman and seen as a great character by many people has to dress down and not display or exult in her own virtual sexuality...because that is deemed problematic? She should conform, not display any flesh and get herself to a nunnery because abusers of women don't like to see their targets being strong, individual and independent. Unless paid to be so. Otherwise they're asking for it right? Unbelievable medieval mindset. To be fair, just because a woman designed something doesn't equate to that something automatically not being sexist (anymore than a man designing it means something is sexist). Scale can be seen as a contributing factor. A highly sexualized character who is but 1 of 1000 characters of that gender is different from 1 of 2. That doesn't make it *bad* in and of itself though surely, and ultimately, execution is what matters? Edit: Typos - when will I get a message without typos out today? Edited March 19, 2015 by Amentep 2 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Nonek Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 I'm fine with the creators making any character they wish, and if people are upset about them being sexy or not, then all the better. Bayonetta exulting in her own sexuality and power is perfectly fine, and if it scares those whom wish women or men to only conform to what they expect and pay for, all the better. If somebody has a problem with that then they should look to their own insecurities. Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin. Tea for the teapot!
Volourn Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 "I just find it crass and overdone, here is this women with massive breast who basically looks like an Anime porn star doing this twirl and then landing on her back and spreading her legs while some white energy flows into her vagina" Why are you attack women and trying to shame her or belittle her work? \"To be fair, just because a woman designed something doesn't equate to that something automatically not being sexist" \There is nothing sexist about a women making a female character any way she wants. Just like a man can make a male character any way he wants without it being sexist. People abuse the word sexist way too easily (espicially when it comes to males but it happens to women too). There is nothing inherently sexist about Bayonetta. DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Amentep Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 \"To be fair, just because a woman designed something doesn't equate to that something automatically not being sexist" \There is nothing sexist about a women making a female character any way she wants. Just like a man can make a male character any way he wants without it being sexist. People abuse the word sexist way too easily (espicially when it comes to males but it happens to women too). There is nothing inherently sexist about Bayonetta. There is nothing inherently sexist about a person of any sex creating a character of any sex because the creation isn't what defines perception. If you'd rather use an alternate term like positive or negative gender representation or something similar more power to you; personally, I don't care to get in an argument on semantics. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Hurlshort Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 If you take any time to seriously criticize or defend Bayonetta, you have already lost. Wouldn't, logically, this argument be applied to all of video gaming? Its frivolous so why debate it? And sports? And TV? And Movies? Maybe I'm not explaining it well, but I see a game like Bayonetta as satire. Attacking Bayonetta for sexualization is like attacking Saint's Row for glorifying gang violence. It's a flawed premise.
Volourn Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 "There is nothing inherently sexist about a person of any sex creating a character of any sex because the creation isn't what defines perception. If you'd rather use an alternate term like positive or negative gender representation or something similar more power to you; personally, I don't care to get in an argument on semantics." Oh, it's about the feels then. That TRIGGERS me! DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.
Amentep Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 If you take any time to seriously criticize or defend Bayonetta, you have already lost. Wouldn't, logically, this argument be applied to all of video gaming? Its frivolous so why debate it? And sports? And TV? And Movies? Maybe I'm not explaining it well, but I see a game like Bayonetta as satire. Attacking Bayonetta for sexualization is like attacking Saint's Row for glorifying gang violence. It's a flawed premise. I dunno, depends on the context to me. If something starts as a satire of a thing, but the satire fails its just the thing. Therefore its open to criticism for being the thing (arguably you could criticize a satire of a thing for still pushing the thing even though its a satire). I don't necessarily agree with it (not having played Bayonetta I'm loathe to criticize or praise it, but Saints Row does a good job of satirizing the GTA style game in its sequels. I wouldn't say its immune to criticism either, though, just that I probably wouldn't agree with much of it). "There is nothing inherently sexist about a person of any sex creating a character of any sex because the creation isn't what defines perception. If you'd rather use an alternate term like positive or negative gender representation or something similar more power to you; personally, I don't care to get in an argument on semantics." Oh, it's about the feels then. That TRIGGERS me! I thought your only trigger was Dwarves. Go Dwarves, Go! 1 I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man
Meshugger Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 If you take any time to seriously criticize or defend Bayonetta, you have already lost. Wouldn't, logically, this argument be applied to all of video gaming? Its frivolous so why debate it? And sports? And TV? And Movies? Maybe I'm not explaining it well, but I see a game like Bayonetta as satire. Attacking Bayonetta for sexualization is like attacking Saint's Row for glorifying gang violence. It's a flawed premise. We can always check what the artist originally intended, but the end result is of course up for the individual to interpret: ...Bayonetta was Shimazaki's favorite character, while Kamiya referred to her as his "ideal woman" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayonetta_%28character%29 Pretty much the woman men want to have, and the women wish to be....from a japanese perspective. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Oerwinde Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Jason Aaron went full retard. edit: Its from Loki: Agent of Asgard, not Thor, so it wasn't Jason Aaron, was Al Ewing. Edited March 20, 2015 by Oerwinde The area between the balls and the butt is a hotbed of terrorist activity.
PK htiw klaw eriF Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 Jason Aaron went full retard. edit: Its from Loki: Agent of Asgard, not Thor, so it wasn't Jason Aaron, was Al Ewing. That font is awful and the art is bad. Jumping ship from the Big2 was the best decision I ever made in regards to comics. "Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman run the 21st century version of MK ULTRA." - majestic "you're a damned filthy lying robot and you deserve to die and burn in hell." - Bartimaeus "Without individual thinking you can't notice the plot holes." - InsaneCommander "Just feed off the suffering of gamers." - Malcador "You are calling my taste crap." -Hurlshort "thankfully it seems like the creators like Hungary less this time around." - Sarex "Don't forget the wakame, dumbass" -Keyrock "Are you trolling or just being inadvertently nonsensical?' -Pidesco "we have already been forced to admit you are at least human" - uuuhhii "I refuse to buy from non-woke businesses" - HoonDing "feral camels are now considered a pest" - Gorth "Melkathi is known to be an overly critical grumpy person" - Melkathi "Oddly enough Sanderson was a lot more direct despite being a Mormon" - Zoraptor "I found it greatly disturbing to scroll through my cartoon's halfing selection of genitalias." - Wormerine "I love cheese despite the pain and carnage." - ShadySands
Meshugger Posted March 20, 2015 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) Jason Aaron went full retard. edit: Its from Loki: Agent of Asgard, not Thor, so it wasn't Jason Aaron, was Al Ewing. I like this counter idea: http://www.razoo.com/story/Ethics-In-Hammer-Weilding Edited March 20, 2015 by Meshugger "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
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