Journalism and bias in the gaming industry.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Famous people get harassed. Maybe feminists specifically get harassed more than others I don't know. But I would sure like to see concrete comparative numbers not colored by perception. And people become famous when all these media types jump onto a harassment incident and furthermore manage to misrepresent the real picture. It only feeds the fire.

 

Anyone can end up in that position, anyone at all. If you spend your days being outspoken, you will have people anonymously cuss at you or tell you that you should have your face kicked in. If you've ever said anything forceful in a heated youtube thread or on twitter then you've had that experience.

 

If you spend your days collecting all this stuff and putting it out there. And if the media would be willing to jump on your case (which they are extremely happy to do when it's a feminist) and make loud headlines starting this whole hysteria cycle, you'll be where some of these personalities are. If you think it's only women though then you haven't heard of Phil Fish, what he has in common with someone like say Brianna Wu is the media attention and that they engage the trolls in the worst ways.

 

A tiny percentage of people have the ability to conjugate into mobs on the internet. Even 20 people attacking you may seem like a mob. I don't really know how to make that go away but for starters the media can be factual and honest about it. And maybe one should think that it's ridiculous that a tiny amount of anons can have that kind of influence on your life.

There's a video out there of porn stars reading their hatemail. It's a bit more extreme than most stuff I've seen.

 

EDIT: Foul language, but otherwise SFW.

Edited March 3, 2015 by KaineParker

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

Thank you for sharing this.

[Meshugger]

While digging, always keep this in mind:

 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

...Feminists are secretly funded by Big Pharma?

[Meshugger]

 

 

...Feminists are secretly funded by Big Pharma?

 

 

Yes. Exactly.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Yes. Exactly.

 

 

Really though, in order for this setup to apply, you'd need someone who is actually willing to pay the absurd amounts of money required to pull off a successful astroturf campaign.

 

Would that be the ebul libruls, or what?

[Meshugger]

I am pretty sure that Gawker Media, after losing money in the seven figures thanks to GG, are already involved in operations such as these. Why shouldn't business protect their interests?

 

I think that you are confusing me with someon else btw, i haven't talked about any "ebul libruls". 

Edited March 3, 2015 by Meshugger

[Volourn]

"Here's an interesting point. I read that the average time people spend working in the game industry is 4 years, which is an incredibly low number especially factoring in your Carmacks and such that have always been at it. Instead of focusing on it being unfriendly to women, maybe it should be pointed out that it's pretty much unfriendly to everyone."

\

Eh. Hardly surprising. This is likely true of almost any industry since it includes all the people who don't last long at all.

[Orogun01]

"Here's an interesting point. I read that the average time people spend working in the game industry is 4 years, which is an incredibly low number especially factoring in your Carmacks and such that have always been at it. Instead of focusing on it being unfriendly to women, maybe it should be pointed out that it's pretty much unfriendly to everyone."

\

Eh. Hardly surprising. This is likely true of almost any industry since it includes all the people who don't last long at all.

There is a high burnout rate in the game industry because of awful conditions that are only comparable with low skilled low pay jobs and with games development. Studios for a long time treated artists as being disposable since there was an over-saturation of job seekers wanting to enter the industry. Lately they have realize that they are driving talent away because of lack of stability and overworking and now are left to develop their own talents without the benefit of an experienced guide .

[aluminiumtrioxid]

I am pretty sure that Gawker Media, after losing money in the seven figures thanks to GG

 

 

[citation needed]

 

 

are already involved in operations such as these.

 

 

So they're hemorrhaging money through their anus, but they can still spend on frivolous bull**** like this?

 

 

 

I think that you are confusing me with someon else btw, i haven't talked about any "ebul libruls". 

 

 

 

"Liberal bias in the media" is a pet peeve of the charming lady whose talk you linked to. Or so I've heard.

[Zoraptor]

Citation

 

They definitely (or at least it was a very convincing fake right down to altered bank records) were paying people to comment, because one of them was publicly complaining about not actually being paid the agreed amounts.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

Citation

 

They definitely (or at least it was a very convincing fake right down to altered bank records) were paying people to comment, because one of them was publicly complaining about not actually being paid the agreed amounts.

 

Nice. And here I thought **** like this only flies in Eastern Europe 

[Meshugger]

 

I am pretty sure that Gawker Media, after losing money in the seven figures thanks to GG

 

 

[citation needed]

 

https://archive.today/J41zZ

 

//Edit: Zorapor was faster.

Edited March 3, 2015 by Meshugger

[Longknife]

 

"Here's an interesting point. I read that the average time people spend working in the game industry is 4 years, which is an incredibly low number especially factoring in your Carmacks and such that have always been at it. Instead of focusing on it being unfriendly to women, maybe it should be pointed out that it's pretty much unfriendly to everyone."

\

Eh. Hardly surprising. This is likely true of almost any industry since it includes all the people who don't last long at all.

There is a high burnout rate in the game industry because of awful conditions that are only comparable with low skilled low pay jobs and with games development. Studios for a long time treated artists as being disposable since there was an over-saturation of job seekers wanting to enter the industry. Lately they have realize that they are driving talent away because of lack of stability and overworking and now are left to develop their own talents without the benefit of an experienced guide .

 

 

 

This. Anyone who wants to get into the game industry, think twice.

 

I think you can find a tour of Bethesda Game Studios in one of their Making of videos (Oblivion?) and it looks swag as hell. Video games, delicious snacks and fatty foods, comfy sofas to chill out on, the works. The twist? Those are all there because during crunch time, the developers might not even get to go home. It's not a cushy job with tons of sweet perks, it's a job where you might end up working 'round the clock to the point it's more productive if you don't even bother driving home.  Those are loooong hours, and any classes prepping you to be a game developer are also going to prep you for "crunch time," which is something a lot of the AAA title companies do where devs are worked to the bone.

 

 

For anyone wondering where I get this from, I frequent Bethesda's forums too and I remember a discussion about the quality of Skyrim (or lack thereof) resulted in a mod speaking up against someone who called the devs lazy and basically mentioning one of the devs that went a week without seeing his family or so.

 

But yeah, that's what happens when a line of work is extremely popular: they can work you extra hard cause you're viewed as replaceable.

[Orogun01]

 

 

"Here's an interesting point. I read that the average time people spend working in the game industry is 4 years, which is an incredibly low number especially factoring in your Carmacks and such that have always been at it. Instead of focusing on it being unfriendly to women, maybe it should be pointed out that it's pretty much unfriendly to everyone."

\

Eh. Hardly surprising. This is likely true of almost any industry since it includes all the people who don't last long at all.

There is a high burnout rate in the game industry because of awful conditions that are only comparable with low skilled low pay jobs and with games development. Studios for a long time treated artists as being disposable since there was an over-saturation of job seekers wanting to enter the industry. Lately they have realize that they are driving talent away because of lack of stability and overworking and now are left to develop their own talents without the benefit of an experienced guide .

 

 

 

This. Anyone who wants to get into the game industry, think twice.

 

I think you can find a tour of Bethesda Game Studios in one of their Making of videos (Oblivion?) and it looks swag as hell. Video games, delicious snacks and fatty foods, comfy sofas to chill out on, the works. The twist? Those are all there because during crunch time, the developers might not even get to go home. It's not a cushy job with tons of sweet perks, it's a job where you might end up working 'round the clock to the point it's more productive if you don't even bother driving home.  Those are loooong hours, and any classes prepping you to be a game developer are also going to prep you for "crunch time," which is something a lot of the AAA title companies do where devs are worked to the bone.

 

 

For anyone wondering where I get this from, I frequent Bethesda's forums too and I remember a discussion about the quality of Skyrim (or lack thereof) resulted in a mod speaking up against someone who called the devs lazy and basically mentioning one of the devs that went a week without seeing his family or so.

 

But yeah, that's what happens when a line of work is extremely popular: they can work you extra hard cause you're viewed as replaceable.

 

You might be sensationalizing a bit much, not every studio is a deadly trap waiting to burn you and drive you out of the industry. In fact the article is about an older game and a lot of those attitudes have changed but there's damage done and a lot of good people have moved on.  People who where very experienced and now their knowledge is gone.

 

Now if only we could get companies to become more lax on NDAs then we might actually enjoy some actual information about how projects go bad and the specifics of why instead of just anonymous insiders describing a trainwreck. Although some are very enlightening, I particularly enjoyed the one about LucasArt and CCPP with the VTM the MMO.

It seems the common trend is bad upper management with impotent mid management and frustrated workers.

[Volourn]

"There is a high burnout rate in the game industry because of awful conditions that are only comparable with low skilled low pay jobs and with games development. Studios for a long time treated artists as being disposable since there was an over-saturation of job seekers wanting to enter the industry. Lately they have realize that they are driving talent away because of lack of stability and overworking and now are left to develop their own talents without the benefit of an experienced guide ."

 

There is a high burnout rare in almost every industry. I bet Wallstreet which is not low skilled low pay has high burnout rates as well.  Sports also fit the bill. Politics likely as well. I bet I can go on. Game industry is not really all that special in this regard be it high or low skill /pay jobs.

[Orogun01]

"There is a high burnout rate in the game industry because of awful conditions that are only comparable with low skilled low pay jobs and with games development. Studios for a long time treated artists as being disposable since there was an over-saturation of job seekers wanting to enter the industry. Lately they have realize that they are driving talent away because of lack of stability and overworking and now are left to develop their own talents without the benefit of an experienced guide ."

 

There is a high burnout rare in almost every industry. I bet Wallstreet which is not low skilled low pay has high burnout rates as well.  Sports also fit the bill. Politics likely as well. I bet I can go on. Game industry is not really all that special in this regard be it high or low skill /pay jobs.

Funny how you omit the salary comparison from your examples.

[Hurlshort]

I wish politicians had a high burnout rate.  They seem to stick around in their jobs forever.

[Volourn]

"Funny how you omit the salary comparison from your examples."

 

Says the guy who has shared zero numbers other than vague 'game development has a high burn out  that no other industry can comapre to.'. Then wen called out yopu whitewash low pay low skill jobs so I point out high paid high 'skill' jobs to match.

 

Don't ask for numbers if you aren't gonna bring any to the game.  Also, it should point out that most atheltes don't  make millions dollars.

 

\Nice try, though.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I wish politicians had a high burnout rate.  They seem to stick around in their jobs forever.

Unfortunately it's a position with little demand in proportion to benefits, at least in the case of legislators.

[Longknife]

 

 

 

"Here's an interesting point. I read that the average time people spend working in the game industry is 4 years, which is an incredibly low number especially factoring in your Carmacks and such that have always been at it. Instead of focusing on it being unfriendly to women, maybe it should be pointed out that it's pretty much unfriendly to everyone."

\

Eh. Hardly surprising. This is likely true of almost any industry since it includes all the people who don't last long at all.

There is a high burnout rate in the game industry because of awful conditions that are only comparable with low skilled low pay jobs and with games development. Studios for a long time treated artists as being disposable since there was an over-saturation of job seekers wanting to enter the industry. Lately they have realize that they are driving talent away because of lack of stability and overworking and now are left to develop their own talents without the benefit of an experienced guide .

 

 

 

This. Anyone who wants to get into the game industry, think twice.

 

I think you can find a tour of Bethesda Game Studios in one of their Making of videos (Oblivion?) and it looks swag as hell. Video games, delicious snacks and fatty foods, comfy sofas to chill out on, the works. The twist? Those are all there because during crunch time, the developers might not even get to go home. It's not a cushy job with tons of sweet perks, it's a job where you might end up working 'round the clock to the point it's more productive if you don't even bother driving home.  Those are loooong hours, and any classes prepping you to be a game developer are also going to prep you for "crunch time," which is something a lot of the AAA title companies do where devs are worked to the bone.

 

 

For anyone wondering where I get this from, I frequent Bethesda's forums too and I remember a discussion about the quality of Skyrim (or lack thereof) resulted in a mod speaking up against someone who called the devs lazy and basically mentioning one of the devs that went a week without seeing his family or so.

 

But yeah, that's what happens when a line of work is extremely popular: they can work you extra hard cause you're viewed as replaceable.

 

You might be sensationalizing a bit much, not every studio is a deadly trap waiting to burn you and drive you out of the industry. In fact the article is about an older game and a lot of those attitudes have changed but there's damage done and a lot of good people have moved on.  People who where very experienced and now their knowledge is gone.

 

 

Of course not. It was more specifically the AAA studios I was referring to, and it's good to hear that may be changing. Still, the overall point is I think a lot of naive young kids think making video games will be as fun as playing them, and the result is the industry is overflowing with potential employees, which means the demands of that position increase. In recent years, I find it also very telling how many indie companies are popping up in regards to how many people are trying to work as game developers.

 

 

 

 

On a more related note to Gamergate, am I still asleep? I just woke up (or so I think) and I see Wu making comments about how nice a chat with some GG supporters went and how feminism has gone too far.

[Barothmuk]

I just woke up (or so I think) and I see Wu making comments about how nice a chat with some GG supporters went and how feminism has gone too far.

I'd love to hear what Wu meant by this.

[BruceVC]

 

I just woke up (or so I think) and I see Wu making comments about how nice a chat with some GG supporters went and how feminism has gone too far.

I'd love to hear what Wu meant by this.

 

 

Yeah, context is always relevant when it comes to these types of comments 

[Fighter]

[Longknife]

 

 

To be fair, I checked in with Ghazi cause yeah it looked like people on twitter lit her up over it, but Ghazi was more accepting.

 

 

I'd love to hear what Wu meant by this.

 

 

https://media.8ch.net/gamergate/src/1425434011029.png

 

 

Seems like a realization that the overarching SJW mantra is more sex negative, which obviously doesn't line up with her game.