Ciphers and chanters gaining additional spells?

[cmergler]

So druids and priests gain all their respective spells at level-up, while wizards select some at level-up and can learn others from found grimoires for a fee (and maybe get spells in shops, not sure about that).

 

What about chanters and ciphers? As far as I have seen in the BB they are able to select some spells at level-up like wizards do, but I found no other means of expanding their usable seletion. Will they be able to find additional spells as loot or maybe buy them in a shop? 

[PrimeJunta]

I seem to remember Josh mentioning that Chanters at least can find phrases during their adventures. That was a long time ago so it's possible I'm mistaken and/or they've changed it.

[morhilane]

I remember reading about that too PJ, but I have no idea if it made it into the game or not. 

[Luckmann]

I didn't even consider that a reasonable possibility; I always thought of the Cipher and Chanter abilities more like the abilities a Ranger, Paladin, Fighter or Berserker learn, not "spells".

[PrimeJunta]

The Cipher's stuff, yeah, but the Chanter's not so much. They are actual phrases they sing or shout, so it would be entirely lore-consistent that they'd learn more as they wander the length and breadth of Eora.

[cmergler]

Indeed, getting taught by another cipher or maybe finding out through experiments seem the only ways that would make sense for ciphers. Chanters instead seem quite disposed to search old tombs and stuff for information.

[Luckmann]

The Cipher's stuff, yeah, but the Chanter's not so much. They are actual phrases they sing or shout, so it would be entirely lore-consistent that they'd learn more as they wander the length and breadth of Eora.

 

Yes, but learning a chant is easily comparable to learning a new combat tactic, I'd say, or learning to focus your whatever.

 

That being said, it'd be cool if you could find (like mentioned earlier) new chants that then show up as pickable Abilities on lvlups.

[pandore]

I seem to remember Josh mentioning that Chanters at least can find phrases during their adventures. That was a long time ago so it's possible I'm mistaken and/or they've changed it.

What about druids and shapeshifting? I remember reading a long time ago they could find some more "exotic" shapeshifting forms in the world, has it been confirmed or is it unsure too?

[Luckmann]

 

I seem to remember Josh mentioning that Chanters at least can find phrases during their adventures. That was a long time ago so it's possible I'm mistaken and/or they've changed it.

What about druids and shapeshifting? I remember reading a long time ago they could find some more "exotic" shapeshifting forms in the world, has it been confirmed or is it unsure too?

 

That sounds cool, but since Druids now choose their 1 wildshape (I forget what it's called) I find it doubtful that it'd work that way at all, sadly.

[Lephys]

That sounds cool, but since Druids now choose their 1 wildshape (I forget what it's called) I find it doubtful that it'd work that way at all, sadly.

Well, as far as I know, they were always supposed to choose only 1 at the beginning. It was mentioned a while back, though, that it could be possible to procure additional forms after character creation. It could've been removed, I suppose.

[Karkarov]

Like others said it doesn't make sense for Ciphers to learn new abilities.  They aren't using "spells" they are manipulating their souls power to cause an effect.  It is something you have to practice, have a gift for, and probably learn from within.  Wizards on the other hand just learn spells out of books, all they have to do is run down a new grimoire and study for a bit.  The trade off is the Wizard is limited by what he can learn from his Grimoire while the Cipher will always have his powers and because they are based purely on his "soul energy" they can be used more often and never really run out.

 

Chanters I could see learning new abilites by say discovering ancient poems or something in some ruin, or learning words of power from some old wise woman hanging out at some remote mountain shrine.  But Obsidian could justify by saying this chants take time to learn and master and years of practice so the ones you do know represent your training and you don't have time to simply drop off the face of Eora to take 2 years to learn a new one.

[Voss]

I'd be far more comfortable with that sort of argument if the game didn't flatly contradict you.  Ciphers and Chanters pick up new powers in an instant- practice, mastery and training aren't involved at all.  A chanter can go from slowing people down to summoning dragons in a month or two, without any sort of indication that he was secretly practicing summoning dragons 'all along.'    Game mechanics like this tend not to interact well with a reasonable sense of a learning curve, or even bad movie montages.  Sometimes you just have to accept a game element as is, and not worry about it.  If chanters/ciphers can't learn more abilities through talents or encounters, its a deliberate design choice, not really a reflection of the setting.

[anameforobsidian]

I thought they said Kana Rua could find some of the lore in the megadungeon at the PAX presentation, implying that he got new abilities.  As for druid wildforms, I always wanted an IE character that mimics FF2's beastmaster, or the more common FF blue mages.

[Diogenes]

Maybe they are worried that if they learn something new it will push some old stuff out of their brain, like when I took that home wine-making course and forgot how to drive.

[Tamerlane]

That's because you were drunk.

[Failion]

 

I seem to remember Josh mentioning that Chanters at least can find phrases during their adventures. That was a long time ago so it's possible I'm mistaken and/or they've changed it.

What about druids and shapeshifting? I remember reading a long time ago they could find some more "exotic" shapeshifting forms in the world, has it been confirmed or is it unsure too?

 

What they need is a giant troll quest that leads the player in search of a dragon shapeshifting form. Be like the ultimate power egotistical **** waving quest in the game for druid players. Starts off with you talking with a dragon who mentions how you can shapeshift into if you learn the wisdom of the masters. If you have a perception of 19 you can tell he bull****ting you. If not you can take the quest and build a fearsome reputation that you are learning how to become a dragon. Making your enemies fear you and opposition spring up. Eventually after talking to drunk cat people shamans and human and dwarf scholars you learn the final latin phrase your supposed to chant and the place of power you have to chant iot. You chant it and turn into giant sloth just as a legendary dragon hunter chanter confronts you and shouts FUS ROH DAH. And you enter a ridiculously hard fight where u drop instantly and hopefully your companions can kill this guy for sweet loot. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by Failion