Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Malcador]

I heard there was a mention of "Redchan" ?

[BruceVC]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/opinion/sunday/speaking-while-female.html?_r=0

 

Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

That Law and Order destroyed my sides.

 

I didn't watch it; care to give a summary?

A horror from THE DARK NET rises and unleashs it's final form on women. Worse than ISIS International League of Gamers kidnaps and rapes an Indian dev, who made a game better than Civ 5 according to Kotqku, to get to the final level. Ice T shows up and shoots a guy cuz he knows it's not a game. The Indian dev tries to be comforted by the cops but she says that teh evul gheymurs have won.

 

I heard there was a mention of "Redchan" ?

Redchanit. Hotwheelz is trying to claim the domain.

[Orogun01]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/opinion/sunday/speaking-while-female.html?_r=0

 

Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?

Men are competitive and that drives them to be aggressive against each other and that drives many industries. Unless you're capable of directing aggression and  beating someone on an interpersonal level you're not going to do well in a competitive environment. It seems that the women on your article chose to submit rather than to challenge and fight, and now they passive aggressively vent their failure to excel. Yes, when you don't speak up for yourself because you're afraid of the backlash that is your failure. 

 

But as usual, we wouldn't be having this conversation if the roles were reversed. Does feminism gets tired of coddling women and telling them all their failings are men's fault?

[BruceVC]

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/opinion/sunday/speaking-while-female.html?_r=0

 

Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?

Men are competitive and that drives them to be aggressive against each other and that drives many industries. Unless you're capable of directing aggression and  beating someone on an interpersonal level you're not going to do well in a competitive environment. It seems that the women on your article chose to submit rather than to challenge and fight, and now they passive aggressively vent their failure to excel. Yes, when you don't speak up for yourself because you're afraid of the backlash that is your failure. 

 

But as usual, we wouldn't be having this conversation if the roles were reversed. Does feminism gets tired of coddling women and telling them all their failings are men's fault?

 

Interesting points raised, yes I agree men tend to be more aggressive in a competitive environment and that probably applies to how we treat other men as well. But I wonder if there is an additional bias around how we can treat women in the workplace? Women tend to be more conciliatory so this may work against them in certain environments 

 

But I don't want to bring the feminists element into this discussion, lets keep focus on  just how women are perceived to be treated in the workplace. And there is no judgement here, if for example in your experience men and women are given the same "airtime "  in the workplace then I want to hear about it

 

In my experience whenever we have large meetings where we have to ask questions its generally the men who provide the most feedback in the public arena, and its normally the same people,  but this just may be about the fact some people don't mind asking questions in a public space. So in other words there are also some men who never ask questions or add new ideas because they prefer  to give ideas through emails or one on one meetings?

[kirottu]

Kotaku article about the SVU episode. 

 

Aww, kotaku getting all angry because someone is doing better job at spinning ridiculous narrative than they are. 

[Volourn]

"Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?"

 

More sexism against women painting them as weak and pathetic who need someone else to speak up for. Rather sad.  The main boss at my place of work happens to be female. LMFAO

[BruceVC]

I posted that link to my family and friends to get their feedback, my dad  responded. He made some good points, see below 

 

 

"I agree with the argument – that there is a degree of  gender bias. I think it stems from the fact that since humans evolved the world has been organised by men to cope with male dynamics – not just physically but mentally. I’m actually surprised that there are no books on the subject.

 

Men originally set up the social systems to cope with male needs and wants, understandably in a time when physical survival was everything, and as society evolved they set up business systems following the same lines. And I also think that, fundamentally, men achieve their goals by fulfilling objectives whilst women achieve their goals through relationship building.

 

So, I can understand women’s frustration. But I often think they approach equality the wrong way; they do it within the male paradigm instead of through a female paradigm. Easier said that done I suppose" 

[TrashMan]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/opinion/sunday/speaking-while-female.html?_r=0

 

Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?

 

My company is 60% women (most are programmers or in marketing). I didn't notice any difference in how everyone is treated or paid or anything. Heck, half the women in my company have a better salary than me.

 

As to how you are percieved.

Various studies have shown that women are far more easily offended than men. they are quicker to take offense and generally have a thinner skin. Which is why as more women come to the internet and join social media, they start feeling as if people are unnecessarily crucial, condesending or whatever because they are women. Nah.

It's just that women really haven't gotten used to being treated exactly like men (and many don't want to, despite all the cries for equality).

[Orogun01]

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/opinion/sunday/speaking-while-female.html?_r=0

 

Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?

Men are competitive and that drives them to be aggressive against each other and that drives many industries. Unless you're capable of directing aggression and  beating someone on an interpersonal level you're not going to do well in a competitive environment. It seems that the women on your article chose to submit rather than to challenge and fight, and now they passive aggressively vent their failure to excel. Yes, when you don't speak up for yourself because you're afraid of the backlash that is your failure. 

 

But as usual, we wouldn't be having this conversation if the roles were reversed. Does feminism gets tired of coddling women and telling them all their failings are men's fault?

 

Interesting points raised, yes I agree men tend to be more aggressive in a competitive environment and that probably applies to how we treat other men as well. But I wonder if there is an additional bias around how we can treat women in the workplace? Women tend to be more conciliatory so this may work against them in certain environments 

 

But I don't want to bring the feminists element into this discussion, lets keep focus on  just how women are perceived to be treated in the workplace. And there is no judgement here, if for example in your experience men and women are given the same "airtime "  in the workplace then I want to hear about it

 

In my experience whenever we have large meetings where we have to ask questions its generally the men who provide the most feedback in the public arena, and its normally the same people,  but this just may be about the fact some people don't mind asking questions in a public space. So in other words there are also some men who never ask questions or add new ideas because they prefer  to give ideas through emails or one on one meetings?

 

Fine by me, I could really speak less about feminism.

 

Experience isn't really a factors as workplaces tend to be diverse, there is however the concept of workplace culture. Which through careful selection creates a good working environment. But like I said men focus their aggression so that they become more driven, more extrovert and more focused on success than women, this is the point where people who disregard the value of biology over behavior and believe societal and cultural norms are the bigger factors, will say that women and men are raised differently.

 

BTW, your dad sounds smart.

[BruceVC]

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/opinion/sunday/speaking-while-female.html?_r=0

 

Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?

 

My company is 60% women (most are programmers or in marketing). I didn't notice any difference in how everyone is treated or paid or anything. Heck, half the women in my company have a better salary than me.

 

As to how you are percieved.

Various studies have shown that women are far more easily offended than men. they are quicker to take offense and generally have a thinner skin. Which is why as more women come to the internet and join social media, they start feeling as if people are unnecessarily crucial, condesending or whatever because they are women. Nah.

It's just that women really haven't gotten used to being treated exactly like men (and many don't want to, despite all the cries for equality).

 

 

This is a good example where in your experience you don't see any gender bias in your workplace. Of course this will vary but your feedback is important when we look at the overall degree of how pervasive gender bias is or isn't. 

[Orogun01]

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/opinion/sunday/speaking-while-female.html?_r=0

 

Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?

 

My company is 60% women (most are programmers or in marketing). I didn't notice any difference in how everyone is treated or paid or anything. Heck, half the women in my company have a better salary than me.

 

As to how you are percieved.

Various studies have shown that women are far more easily offended than men. they are quicker to take offense and generally have a thinner skin. Which is why as more women come to the internet and join social media, they start feeling as if people are unnecessarily crucial, condesending or whatever because they are women. Nah.

It's just that women really haven't gotten used to being treated exactly like men (and many don't want to, despite all the cries for equality).

 

 

This is a good example where in your experience you don't see any gender bias in your workplace. Of course this will vary but your feedback is important when we look at the overall degree of how pervasive gender bias is or isn't. 

 

At which point does gender bias becomes justified, do we accept that both gender are equal despite clear cultural and biological differences? and why do we assume bias when it could be a bad workplace that bears down on both men and women? If women have it worse in such workplace then it should be able to be measured and demonstrated, yet all I've seen are confessionals and anecdotes from a personal perspective that could be eschewed by perspective. For all we know there is a man blending into the background that has had it ten times worse, while these women speak about their tribulations.

 

It just seems to me that exposure to these issues will just becomes self reinforcing as women become convinced that they are being harassed or exploited over what could just be the workplace culture. I question the necessity of making this a gendered issue when harassment and abuse on the workplace are not. These issues are distorted by politics and political correctness which bring a whole other set of dynamics and problems to them. It becomes hard or near impossible to resolve them in a fair manner or without any backlash.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/01/11/opinion/sunday/speaking-while-female.html?_r=0

 

Guys here is a good read that highlights the gender bias at many companies and how women are not allowed the same time to speak as men or are  not given the same respect or recognition when it comes to ideas and creativity. I suppose we should all ask ourselves some important questions, how are you personally with women at your work? Do you see them and their contribution in the same way as men, sometimes we subconsciously may be a little dismissive? Also how are you with any female acquaintances in your life, so for example your mom, sister, g-friend, wife or any other women. Do you consider their feedback in the same way as for example a male friend may give you advice

 

I tend to talk a lot and like to say my piece so I have been  accused of being a little condescending at times by my lady friends. So its something I personally feel the need to work on but I do like to think I have a good relationship with all the women in my life?

 

My company is 60% women (most are programmers or in marketing). I didn't notice any difference in how everyone is treated or paid or anything. Heck, half the women in my company have a better salary than me.

 

As to how you are percieved.

Various studies have shown that women are far more easily offended than men. they are quicker to take offense and generally have a thinner skin. Which is why as more women come to the internet and join social media, they start feeling as if people are unnecessarily crucial, condesending or whatever because they are women. Nah.

It's just that women really haven't gotten used to being treated exactly like men (and many don't want to, despite all the cries for equality).

 

 

This is a good example where in your experience you don't see any gender bias in your workplace. Of course this will vary but your feedback is important when we look at the overall degree of how pervasive gender bias is or isn't. 

 

At which point does gender bias becomes justified, do we accept that both gender are equal despite clear cultural and biological differences? and why do we assume bias when it could be a bad workplace that bears down on both men and women? If women have it worse in such workplace then it should be able to be measured and demonstrated, yet all I've seen are confessionals and anecdotes from a personal perspective that could be eschewed by perspective. For all we know there is a man blending into the background that has had it ten times worse, while these women speak about their tribulations.

 

It just seems to me that exposure to these issues will just becomes self reinforcing as women become convinced that they are being harassed or exploited over what could just be the workplace culture. I question the necessity of making this a gendered issue when harassment and abuse on the workplace are not. These issues are distorted by politics and political correctness which bring a whole other set of dynamics and problems to them. It becomes hard or near impossible to resolve them in a fair manner or without any backlash.

 

 

You have raised some thought provoking points. How do we know that gender bias exists in the workplace?

 

Well IMO it definitely doesn't exist in all workplaces and I firmly believe that most corporations are committed to addressing any perceptions or institutionalized cases of gender bias

 

But if we  want to have this discussion in a reasonable way we can't say " gender bias doesn't exist ". The question I would think is how prevalent  or real  it really is? For example as mentioned by others maybe mainstream large corporations are just harsh places where personal feelings don't matter and maybe people are over sensitive around how  they are treated.

 

For example when I went on this training in the UK at the end of every session there were 120 of us in a room and we were encouraged  to ask questions to the developers. It was generally the same people, myself and 6-8 others, who asked questions in the public forum. There were maybe 8-10 ladies in the room and not once did they ask questions but neither did the majority of men. So I fail to see how this is an example of how women are being  marginalised because in this case most people were happy with other people asking questions and raising complaints around the functionality of the product 

 

But if we take that link I provided there are clear cases of women raising issues or suggestions and their comments being dismissed or seen in a critical light instead of being constructive. So I would also argue that this type of gender bias does still exist in business. Personally I haven't been exposed to it, except for my work in the Middle East but thats a symptom of the culture and religious dogma,  but thats not to say I don't believe it exists. 

 

And as for self-enforcing, maybe. But I would like to think that people would raise concerns on real personal exposure to gender bias and not on others peoples views. So for example lady x working at company y is not going to say she feels she is being treated unfairly just because of her gender unless she feels there is real evidence of this ?

[kirottu]

Polygon thinks stuff in SVU episode "actually happened".

 

That's right boys and girls, GamerGate dressed up as luchador ISIS ninjas and kidnapped a woman developer, because gamers believe game developers are gods. This is a thing that happened.

 

I'm not even mad. The whole thing is too ridiculous to be offensive.

[kirottu]

Oliver Campbell goes gloriously full ham. Contains some rough language.

[Malcador]

This why I laugh when they say the outsider's view of 'gamers' was ruined by gamergate. It's not as if it were in very high esteem to begin with.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

[Blarghagh]

Okay, I didn't see the episode, but I was told the SVU episode had gamers in Luchador masks actually kidnapping the Sarkeesian expy for the police to save as a disempowered damsel in distress? Is that right? Because that is hilarious.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Okay, I didn't see the episode, but I was told the SVU episode had gamers in Luchador masks actually kidnapping the Sarkeesian expy for the police to save as a disempowered damsel in distress? Is that right? Because that is hilarious.

That and some extremely awkward dialogue.

[Malcador]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7faUHdlh9g

[Blarghagh]

https://twitter.com/Raina_Punjabi

 

What I don't even-*dies laughing*

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Kotaku in Action leveled up!

[Keyrock]

Holy ****, that supercut was hilarious.  Not unexpected, that's par for the course for SVU's brand of sensationalist bullcrap, but still hilarious.  The first person view in the final scene was a nice touch. 

 

I needed a good laugh today.  The exceedingly ****ty weather we've been stuck with for 3+ weeks straight (when a Minnesotan pities you, you know you're having a rough winter), with no signs of letting up, combined with being under the weather, has made me irritable and depressed.  That bit of unintentional comedy gold from SVU was just the pick me up I needed. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by Keyrock

[Namutree]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7faUHdlh9g

lol

[Fighter]

SVU

 

"They can't stand women in gaming."

 

I facepalmed.

 

"They leveled up."

 

I fell on the floor laughing.

 

EDIT: I pressed play again.

 

"Created by **** WOLF"

 

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA! HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!! Someone help me please! I can't...!!!!!!

Edited February 12, 2015 by Fighter