I learned that fights don't give you experience

[Sarex]

i fail to see the difference when looking at the big picture. whether you get per kill xp or not, the max level is the same and you will reach it at about the same time. the only difference is that with per kill xp you may get a level in the middle of a dungeon run instead of getting it after you are through

 

The difference being that you need to get to that end game. That in between that you dismissed so conveniently is the whole point of the game, if that is bad then there is no point with the ending as no one will even bother to get to it.

[teknoman2]

i think you are comparing potatoes to chairs here

saying that getting all the xp at the end of a quest instead of taking it a bit at a time as you kill enemies is the same as watching the ending of the game on youtube instead of playing the game just doesnt make sense. regardless of how the xp is given, you still need to play the quest to get it... you cant skip the quest and go for the reward. and if you feel like you need an incentive to choose combat over another method of solving a quest, then maybe you dont really like to solve quests with combat and just want the extra xp

lets say you get a quest that says "kill these 10 bandits". you get 10xp  every time a bandit dies and 100xp as quest reward. how is that any different than getting no xp for the kills and 200xp as quest reward? and what if you had a non combat solution like sneaking in and poisoning the water? sorry, you did not fight them head on so you only get half the reward!

Edited January 14, 2015 by teknoman2

[Sarex]

i think you are comparing potatoes to chairs here

saying that getting all the xp at the end of a quest instead of taking it a bit at a time as you kill enemies is the same as watching the ending of the game on youtube instead of playing the game just doesnt make sense. regardless of how the xp is given, you still need to play the quest to get it... you cant skip the quest and go for the reward. and if you feel like you need an incentive to choose combat over another method of solving a quest, then maybe you dont really like to solve quests with combat and just want the extra xp

lets say you get a quest that says "kill these 10 bandits". you get 10xp  every time a bandit dies and 100xp as quest reward. how is that any different than getting no xp for the kills and 200xp as quest reward? and what if you had a non combat solution like sneaking in and poisoning the water? sorry, you did not fight them head on so you only get half the reward!

 

Whaaaat?

 

I said that the thing between the beginning and the ending of the game is the most important part and that if that's bad no one will bother to finish the game. I don't know how you got anything else from what I said.

 

As for passing of the character progress via xp, I doubt it will be smooth with quest only xp. Those who like to explore and 100% the game will suffer the most by that system.

[Sarex]

Whaaaat?

 

I said that the thing between the beginning and the ending of the game is the most important part and that if that's bad no one will bother to finish the game. I don't know how you got anything else from what I said.

 

As for passing of the character progress via xp, I doubt it will be smooth with quest only xp. Those who like to explore and 100% the game will suffer the most by that system.

 

pacing not passing >_>

[teknoman2]

 

i think you are comparing potatoes to chairs here

saying that getting all the xp at the end of a quest instead of taking it a bit at a time as you kill enemies is the same as watching the ending of the game on youtube instead of playing the game just doesnt make sense. regardless of how the xp is given, you still need to play the quest to get it... you cant skip the quest and go for the reward. and if you feel like you need an incentive to choose combat over another method of solving a quest, then maybe you dont really like to solve quests with combat and just want the extra xp

lets say you get a quest that says "kill these 10 bandits". you get 10xp  every time a bandit dies and 100xp as quest reward. how is that any different than getting no xp for the kills and 200xp as quest reward? and what if you had a non combat solution like sneaking in and poisoning the water? sorry, you did not fight them head on so you only get half the reward!

 

Whaaaat?

 

I said that the thing between the beginning and the ending of the game is the most important part and that if that's bad no one will bother to finish the game. I don't know how you got anything else from what I said.

 

As for passing of the character progress via xp, I doubt it will be smooth with quest only xp. Those who like to explore and 100% the game will suffer the most by that system.

 

i missread i guess. still, there are tons of games that use the "no combat xp" system and it seems to work for them, so why would this be any different?

Deus Ex, Bloodlines, even Mass Effect 2 and 3 that had 100% combat-centric gameplay to name a few. i did not see anyone bothered by it (not even most of those who preach against this system for PE). 

[Sarex]

i missread i guess. still, there are tons of games that use the "no combat xp" system and it seems to work for them, so why would this be any different?

Deus Ex, Bloodlines, even Mass Effect 2 and 3 that had 100% combat-centric gameplay to name a few. i did not see anyone bothered by it (not even most of those who preach against this system for PE). 

 

Deus Ex doesn't use xp at all, haven't played bloodlines, ME2&3 are pretty linear.

[Luckmann]

 

i missread i guess. still, there are tons of games that use the "no combat xp" system and it seems to work for them, so why would this be any different?

Deus Ex, Bloodlines, even Mass Effect 2 and 3 that had 100% combat-centric gameplay to name a few. i did not see anyone bothered by it (not even most of those who preach against this system for PE). 

 

Deus Ex doesn't use xp at all, haven't played bloodlines, ME2&3 are pretty linear.

 

 

....what are you even talking about?

[Hassat Hunter]

That someone thinks Deus Ex as only Human Revolution I have seen (and shaken my head at)... but that both DX and DX:HR are out of the picture and Deus Ex is only Invisible War (which must have happened here since I cant imagine any other reason why for that insane remark) is totally new... and even more face-palmy.

[teknoman2]

 

i missread i guess. still, there are tons of games that use the "no combat xp" system and it seems to work for them, so why would this be any different?

Deus Ex, Bloodlines, even Mass Effect 2 and 3 that had 100% combat-centric gameplay to name a few. i did not see anyone bothered by it (not even most of those who preach against this system for PE). 

 

Deus Ex doesn't use xp at all, haven't played bloodlines, ME2&3 are pretty linear.

 

let me give you an example of how a quest works in bloodlines. you need to get into the Giovanni mansion.

you can sweet talk someone to take you in as his escort.

you can sweet talk the bouncer to let you in.

you can persuade a guy to take his drunk wife back home and get his invitation

you can persuade/pay the bouncer to look the other way

you can kill the bouncer and go in shooting

you can sneak in from the back door

and depending on what vampire family you are part of and your gender, you may get an extra option

now think what everyone would choose if you were to get xp for combat in that game

of course PE will probably not have that many options, but unless it has respawning farmable monsters to go along with combat xp, the reward for it in the long run would be negligible, since most of your kills would be quest related enemies like in BG. so as i said, getting 10xp each time you kill a monster in a cave or getting 10x(number of monsters) as quest reward when they are all dead makes no difference in the pacing

[Sarex]

....what are you even talking about?

 

Yeah, my bad. Forgot you got xp, I only remembered that you could buy Praxis. Still the game has combat xp and is linear.

 

 

That someone thinks Deus Ex as only Human Revolution I have seen (and shaken my head at)... but that both DX and DX:HR are out of the picture and Deus Ex is only Invisible War (which must have happened here since I cant imagine any other reason why for that insane remark) is totally new... and even more face-palmy.

 

Nope I was talking about Human Revolution, only I forgot that there was xp.

 

 

let me give you an example of how a quest works in bloodlines. you need to get into the Giovanni mansion.

you can sweet talk someone to take you in as his escort.

you can sweet talk the bouncer to let you in.

you can persuade a guy to take his drunk wife back home and get his invitation

you can persuade/pay the bouncer to look the other way

you can kill the bouncer and go in shooting

you can sneak in from the back door

and depending on what vampire family you are part of and your gender, you may get an extra option

now think what everyone would choose if you were to get xp for combat in that game

of course PE will probably not have that many options, but unless it has respawning farmable monsters to go along with combat xp, the reward for it in the long run would be negligible, since most of your kills would be quest related enemies like in BG. so as i said, getting 10xp each time you kill a monster in a cave or getting 10x(number of monsters) as quest reward when they are all dead makes no difference in the pacing

 

Ok but as far as I can see that game wasn't combat focused, PoE is. You won't have those options in majority of encounters.

[DEY123]

I think I am going to like not having encounter XP.  I am currently playing D:OS and I find myself constantly wondering if I should kill things or try and use charisma interaction  to get by certain enemies.  The debate I am having is not based on role-playing it is based on purely wondering which way will get me more XP.  Additionally I am finding that I am checking every last tunnel and area to make sure I did not miss any XP (or side quests).  I would prefer to not worry about this and instead get XP for progressing in the game, finding hidden area, and completing side quests (and whether I negotiate or kill something to get to these objectives should not impact how many XP my Characters get).

[Hassat Hunter]

Vampire: Bloodlines was also very combat focused... ESPECIALLY in the Giovanni Mansion+

 

And DX:HR's XP system is attrocious, play the original Deus Ex to see how to do it properly...

[Sanquiz]

I tend to dont read anything about a game i am going to play, but after read this post i think is one of the best decision i have see to fix the problem with the mid and final part of the game, the thing is if you power level too much the mid and final part of the game get too easy and the game lost a lot of gameplay because of that, with this system i think and i hope that every encounter will be fun.

 

Sorry for my english.

[Luckmann]

Yeah, my bad. Forgot you got xp, I only remembered that you could buy Praxis. Still the game has combat xp and is linear.

 

[...]

If you are talking about Deus Ex: Human Revolution, you should make that clear, and not confuse it with Deus Ex. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a complete downgrade in all respects except graphically, compared to the original Deus Ex. Deus Ex doesn't allow you to purchase "praxis", it emphasizes choice in character evolution (integrated into the game world, not as a function of arbitrarily gained and spent experience points), it awards you experience based on progress or exploration, and features emergent gameplay second to none.

 

Deus Ex: Human Revolutions is a walking abortion by comparison. It's like comparing Baldur's Gate 2 to Mass Effect 2.

[teknoman2]

 

 

Ok but as far as I can see that game wasn't combat focused, PoE is. You won't have those options in majority of encounters.

 

i would understand the argument for combat xp if we were talking about a game like skyrim, where 50% or more of what you kill are random stuff in random places, but since they go at it mostly BG style, 90% or more of the combat will be quest related anyway. so as i said: 10 xp for every kill or 100xp when all 10 are dead... does it really change the game that much to deserve a crusade?

[teknoman2]

 

Yeah, my bad. Forgot you got xp, I only remembered that you could buy Praxis. Still the game has combat xp and is linear.

 

[...]

If you are talking about Deus Ex: Human Revolution, you should make that clear, and not confuse it with Deus Ex. Deus Ex: Human Revolution is a complete downgrade in all respects except graphically, compared to the original Deus Ex. Deus Ex doesn't allow you to purchase "praxis", it emphasizes choice in character evolution (integrated into the game world, not as a function of arbitrarily gained and spent experience points), it awards you experience based on progress or exploration, and features emergent gameplay second to none.

 

Deus Ex: Human Revolutions is a walking abortion by comparison. It's like comparing Baldur's Gate 2 to Mass Effect 2.

 

at least it wasnt invisible war that had thrown any form of character progression out of the window

[BigBripa]

I think I am going to like not having encounter XP.  I am currently playing D:OS and I find myself constantly wondering if I should kill things or try and use charisma interaction  to get by certain enemies.  The debate I am having is not based on role-playing it is based on purely wondering which way will get me more XP.  Additionally I am finding that I am checking every last tunnel and area to make sure I did not miss any XP (or side quests).  I would prefer to not worry about this and instead get XP for progressing in the game, finding hidden area, and completing side quests (and whether I negotiate or kill something to get to these objectives should not impact how many XP my Characters get).

Not really something worth worrying about. Playing through and grabbing open opportunities should land you somewhere in the low 20's which is more than you need to wrap up the main plot. Divinity being quite flexible and all.

 

In regards to the subject at hand, it has been talked to death, resurrected, and promptly talked into its grave once more. It won't change (OP actually late to the party) at this point in development. If this is a deal breaker for you then, well... The deal has been broken. I was originally uncomfortable with no combat XP but I love the aesthetic and the genre and the lore so I feel like that's enough to take a chance on the game. Stepping out of your comfort zone is the only way to expand your horizons.

[Sarex]

i would understand the argument for combat xp if we were talking about a game like skyrim, where 50% or more of what you kill are random stuff in random places, but since they go at it mostly BG style, 90% or more of the combat will be quest related anyway. so as i said: 10 xp for every kill or 100xp when all 10 are dead... does it really change the game that much to deserve a crusade?

 

You and I must not have played the same Baldurs Gate. My advice is, give BG another spin and see how incorrect that number you stated is.

[gogocactus]

 

 

i would understand the argument for combat xp if we were talking about a game like skyrim, where 50% or more of what you kill are random stuff in random places, but since they go at it mostly BG style, 90% or more of the combat will be quest related anyway. so as i said: 10 xp for every kill or 100xp when all 10 are dead... does it really change the game that much to deserve a crusade?

You and I must not have played the same Baldurs Gate. My advice is, give BG another spin and see how incorrect that number you stated is.

I'm currently replaying Baldur 's Gate II and do find most of the combat quest related. Not in the meaning that each and every combat encounter is for the sake of a specific quest, but rather that encounters are either for the sake of a quest or encountered on the way to a quest. It makes a difference in so far as that I don't have the feeling I'm going out of my way to get into combat and thus gain combat experience. I like it.

[Luckmann]

Again, like the difference between Deus Ex and Deus Ex: Human Revolutions, if someone is talking about Baldur's Gate II, they should note that it's Baldur's Gate II, not Baldur's Gate.

 

In Baldur's Gate II, I'm hard pressed to find any combat experience that isn't in direct relation to a quest. But in Baldur's Gate, there's a lot of optional areas that no quest will lead you to.

 

Either way, it's no argument for combat experience; exploration should be interesting and rewarding (in one way or another) independent on whether you're hunting for experience or not. If you're exploring a map just to kill all the squirrels for their juicy experience, that's the worst kind of motivation to play a game.

[Madscientist]

I think I am going to like not having encounter XP.  I am currently playing D:OS and I find myself constantly wondering if I should kill things or try and use charisma interaction  to get by certain enemies.  The debate I am having is not based on role-playing it is based on purely wondering which way will get me more XP.  Additionally I am finding that I am checking every last tunnel and area to make sure I did not miss any XP (or side quests).  I would prefer to not worry about this and instead get XP for progressing in the game, finding hidden area, and completing side quests (and whether I negotiate or kill something to get to these objectives should not impact how many XP my Characters get).

 

D:OS was the best game that came out last year (at least the best I have played). But there is a bigger problem than if you get more exp from talking or fighting. In many cases you get most exp by first talking your way out of things and then attacing them anyway.

 

I like that PoE does not have combat exp. Deus Ex ( the original one ) was one of the best games ever ( I have not played this vampire game). You get a reward for reaching a significant goal or finding something hidden and not for killing everything that crosses your path. If you really want to maximize combat exp some people kill all townsfolk after finishing the quests (not in all games, but in some it can be done)

 

When I play PoE I want to explore all parts of all areas anyway. Exploration should be a reward in itself, not just a tool to get kill exp. This means I will fight lots of monsters anyway, but I don´t need to grind areas I have already wisited 100times just for a few more exp.

[Nakia]

For me I want a game that offers a lot more than XP so I can level up and get more goodies so I can kill more things.  I want a story that is interesting, dialogue that is also interesting and give me choices.    What I want is to role play  a game, have a character that I can relate to in some way.  In fact I find XP in most games a bit silly.  Kill twenty wolves in what ever way possible.  Then I can increase my skills, my spells whether they relate to how I got the XP.  At least by getting XP by finishing a quest I can feel that it is general and covers several skills used in finishing the quest.  If the main point of a game is to kill everything that moves practically I pass it by these days.  

[Hassat Hunter]

@ Madscientist; You should play Vampire... I'm pretty sure you're going to love it too, even if it's very very (very) rough around the edges.

[teknoman2]

 

i would understand the argument for combat xp if we were talking about a game like skyrim, where 50% or more of what you kill are random stuff in random places, but since they go at it mostly BG style, 90% or more of the combat will be quest related anyway. so as i said: 10 xp for every kill or 100xp when all 10 are dead... does it really change the game that much to deserve a crusade?

 

You and I must not have played the same Baldurs Gate. My advice is, give BG another spin and see how incorrect that number you stated is.

 

the entire area of firewine bridge is quest related

durlag's tower is quest related

the iron keep is quest related

naskel mines are quest related

the other mine is quest related

return to candlekeep is quest related

the gnoll's keep is quest related

the bandit camp is quest related

the sewers are quest related

the crazy priest and all his undead are quest related

and so on. the bulk of the enemies are in quest related areas or are there to keep you from reaching them (ie the wyvern forest). there are few monsters that can be found randomly and give worthwhile xp after level 3

[Luckmann]

@ Madscientist; You should play Vampire... I'm pretty sure you're going to love it too, even if it's very very (very) rough around the edges.

Vampire: The Masquerade: Bloodlines was an amazing what-could-have-been game. It's got some really, really amazing points to it, but on release, it was bugged and unfinished. I wish it would've been finished before release.. the first 1/3 or 1/2 of the game is amazing, and then it just sorta tapers off into a combat game.