Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

http://gamepolitics.com/2014/12/29/editorial-gamergate-political-attitudes-part-1-movement-right-wing#.VKGTpAAFA

 

For being a hive of right-wingers, KiA seems to be oddly dominated by left leaning people.

[Longknife]

This is unbearably sad....

 

Having a discussion with some Gamerghazi people. Here: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2qpfuj/gamerghazi_and_the_losing_battle_they_fight_as/

 

I'm AFlyingNun. I should be the top comment to the top comment (aka the second comment I guess? Freaking reddit layout). Just go down the list of replies to my comment and read. Be sure to open anything condensed by a [+] cause those are actually the convos I'm talking about. I -THINK- the Ghazis must be getting downvoted but dunno cause their scores don't show.

 

But yeah I just feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Two have not responded to points I made and disappeared after I made them, another one is basically just calling me scum for no apparent reason.

 

 

And in case anyone gets lost, here: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2qpfuj/gamerghazi_and_the_losing_battle_they_fight_as/cn8d6bk

 

Read the comment chain with AgaGalneer for the person just calling me scum.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Longknife

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

This is unbearably sad....

 

Having a discussion with some Gamerghazi people. Here: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2qpfuj/gamerghazi_and_the_losing_battle_they_fight_as/

 

I'm AFlyingNun. I should be the top comment to the top comment (aka the second comment I guess? Freaking reddit layout). Just go down the list of replies to my comment and read. Be sure to open anything condensed by a [+] cause those are actually the convos I'm talking about. I -THINK- the Ghazis must be getting downvoted but dunno cause their scores don't show.

 

But yeah I just feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Two have not responded to points I made and disappeared after I made them, another one is basically just calling me scum for no apparent reason.

You are taking to a brick wall dude. Remember, Ghazi's sole purpose is to sling poop, talking to them just gets you dirty.

[Longknife]

 

This is unbearably sad....

 

Having a discussion with some Gamerghazi people. Here: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2qpfuj/gamerghazi_and_the_losing_battle_they_fight_as/

 

I'm AFlyingNun. I should be the top comment to the top comment (aka the second comment I guess? Freaking reddit layout). Just go down the list of replies to my comment and read. Be sure to open anything condensed by a [+] cause those are actually the convos I'm talking about. I -THINK- the Ghazis must be getting downvoted but dunno cause their scores don't show.

 

But yeah I just feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Two have not responded to points I made and disappeared after I made them, another one is basically just calling me scum for no apparent reason.

You are taking to a brick wall dude. Remember, Ghazi's sole purpose is to sling poop, talking to them just gets you dirty.

 

 

 

I would be lying if I said I didn't agree to an extent, but I also believe that if we don't TRY every so often, then we both cannot expect **** to change and we'd become just as guilty of being brick walls. I also like to think that sometimes these people may not see what I'm saying immediately, but maybe in a year's time they'll remember a comment I made and it'll help them come to terms with something faster.

   Lastly, I consider people who may read from the sidelines. If I make an honest effort to communicate and discuss things civilly and I get called scum for it...well, guess who walks away with a better reputation.

 

  But yeah the AgaGalneer person in particular is just an awful stereotype of what GamerGhazi is. It's both sickening and saddening to see a person like that actually exists.

[Zoraptor]

For being a hive of right-wingers, KiA seems to be oddly dominated by left leaning people.

 

 

I'll be quite interested to read the second part of that article, to see if it comes to the same general conclusion I have. While I don't really like the Cultural Marxism label I do think there is a fair bit of 'Cultural Stalinism' which explains why you have two predominantly left leaning groups fighting each other. Stalin was about as much concerned- if not more so- with fighting the wrong sort of leftist as with fighting rightists, and with purging those who were disloyal or ideologically impure leftists. That is pretty much what antiGG is about, purging the wrong sorts of left leaning people so only proper thinkers remain. Not up to the kulaks or mass graves level though of course, except in some of their dreams.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Zoraptor

[Longknife]

 

For being a hive of right-wingers, KiA seems to be oddly dominated by left leaning people.

 

 

I'll be quite interested to read the second part of that article, to see if it comes to the same general conclusion I have. While I don't really like the Cultural Marxism label I do think there is a fair bit of 'Cultural Stalinism' which explains why you have two predominantly left leaning groups fighting each other. Stalin was about as much concerned- if not more so- with fighting the wrong sort of leftist as with fighting rightists, and with purging those who were disloyal or ideologically impure leftists. That is pretty much what antiGG is about, purging the wrong sorts of left leaning people so only proper thinkers remain. Not up to the kulaks or mass graves level though of course, except in some of their dreams.

 

 

Stalin was also a big proponent of sweet moustaches, which ultimately led to his quarrel with Hitler over which style was superior.

 

Source:

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

For being a hive of right-wingers, KiA seems to be oddly dominated by left leaning people.

 

 

I'll be quite interested to read the second part of that article, to see if it comes to the same general conclusion I have. While I don't really like the Cultural Marxism label I do think there is a fair bit of 'Cultural Stalinism' which explains why you have two predominantly left leaning groups fighting each other. Stalin was about as much concerned- if not more so- with fighting the wrong sort of leftist as with fighting rightists, and with purging those who were disloyal or ideologically impure leftists. That is pretty much what antiGG is about, purging the wrong sorts of left leaning people so only proper thinkers remain. Not up to the kulaks or mass graves level though of course, except in some of their dreams.

I think that is the conclusion to draw, given the data presented. IMO this is primarily a battle between Authoritarian and Libertarian groups, and as such there is some elements of "true left" in some conversations.

 

I've also noticed a difference in economic and class thought, but that would be a long TL;DR.

 

 

 

This is unbearably sad....

 

Having a discussion with some Gamerghazi people. Here: http://www.reddit.com/r/KotakuInAction/comments/2qpfuj/gamerghazi_and_the_losing_battle_they_fight_as/

 

I'm AFlyingNun. I should be the top comment to the top comment (aka the second comment I guess? Freaking reddit layout). Just go down the list of replies to my comment and read. Be sure to open anything condensed by a [+] cause those are actually the convos I'm talking about. I -THINK- the Ghazis must be getting downvoted but dunno cause their scores don't show.

 

But yeah I just feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. Two have not responded to points I made and disappeared after I made them, another one is basically just calling me scum for no apparent reason.

 

You are taking to a brick wall dude. Remember, Ghazi's sole purpose is to sling poop, talking to them just gets you dirty.

 

 

I would be lying if I said I didn't agree to an extent, but I also believe that if we don't TRY every so often, then we both cannot expect **** to change and we'd become just as guilty of being brick walls. I also like to think that sometimes these people may not see what I'm saying immediately, but maybe in a year's time they'll remember a comment I made and it'll help them come to terms with something faster.

   Lastly, I consider people who may read from the sidelines. If I make an honest effort to communicate and discuss things civilly and I get called scum for it...well, guess who walks away with a better reputation.

 

  But yeah the AgaGalneer person in particular is just an awful stereotype of what GamerGhazi is. It's both sickening and saddening to see a person like that actually exists.

I get where you coming from, as I did the same with a "DrPizza", but for the most part I try to avoid directly engaging ghazelles because it's just going to consist of goalpost shifting and being called names.

[Longknife]

I will confess that despite law studies basically teaching you to praise debate as this massive problem solving tool, GamerGate is wearing on me in the sense that for the first time ever, I'm encountering a group of people I consider hopeless and a blatant waste of time to try and debate with. My mother can be pretty...hysterical, during fights? Very quick to accuse you of insulting her or exaggerating things you never even said to ridiculous degrees, and for that reason I don't even BOTHER arguing or fighting with my mom. (for example I once got accused of calling my own mother an idiot and not having any trust in her and being a terrible son because I trusted a phone service worker who claimed our internet would be back on when we got home whereas she thought the worker was lying to us. It wasn't a simple "ok we'll check but if I was right I'm rubbing it in," it was a "How DARE you trust a random stranger more than me and accuse me of being an idiot" even though all I said was "let's just go home and check before causing a ruckus") Hell, usually ignoring her outbursts results in her apologizing.

 

  And while I could expect that from a random person like my mom, to see that kind of attitude to feel THIS common amongst an entire group is disheartening. I think you can learn a lot from any area of study at a university, and I think what law teaches is fairness and how to go about with a healthy discussion. It's very sad to watch THIS many people basically treat those lessons as mere fairy tales.

 

  Oh and before anyone asks, not accusing the anti-GG people of these (Obsidian) forums of being like that. Part of the reason I can say all this openly is because it luckily doesn't apply here.

Edited December 29, 2014 by Longknife

[kirottu]

No one who is part of GamerGate can convince ghazi-people that they might be wrong. They really don't matter, but neutrals do. Let ghazi spread their hate, debate them calmly, and we get one more neutral to our side who was reading.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

The guy who started Notyourshield and was fired after someone called his employer is now being reported as suicidal.

 

http://m.imgur.com/yAjR0l7

[Walsingham]

I keep dipping in here, and purely as a matter of personal opinion this has to be the single most pointless and boring discussion we've ever had.

 

I'm sure that won't change anyone's mind. I just wanted it on record.

 

I'm not ignorant of feminist issues, or gaming, or blogging. But I call bull****.

[Namutree]

The guy who started Notyourshield and was fired after someone called his employer is now being reported as suicidal.

 

http://m.imgur.com/yAjR0l7

They say we're a hate mob. Anti-GG seem to have an issue with projection.

[Namutree]

I keep dipping in here, and purely as a matter of personal opinion this has to be the single most pointless and boring discussion we've ever had.

 

I'm sure that won't change anyone's mind. I just wanted it on record.

 

I'm not ignorant of feminist issues, or gaming, or blogging. But I call bull****.

Bull**** on what?

[Orogun01]

I keep dipping in here, and purely as a matter of personal opinion this has to be the single most pointless and boring discussion we've ever had.

 

I'm sure that won't change anyone's mind. I just wanted it on record.

 

I'm not ignorant of feminist issues, or gaming, or blogging. But I call bull****.

During the Cold War the Russians were very keen to infiltrate counterculture movements to undermine the West they obviously didn't think it was pointless, specially since they used those methods to subvert Afghanistan.

Nowadays you see the result of what the Left has brought, you just have to look at Sweden to see an extreme of what this ideology means when it affects politics. Plus you have them also affecting the media because they want to preach their ideology, therefore they have turned entertainment into a political battlefield.

Maybe you don't see this a relevant but sadly your opinion doesn't change the fact that if they are ignored they will end up controlling the medium as they did with Games Journalism and the Indie scene. These are not isolated incidents as other facets of nerd culture have been affected, namely the tabletop and comic book communities. 

 

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Welp I just saw something pretty gross on KiA. Won't link cuz would get me the banhammer, but it's something pretty screwed up that happened to Lizzy.

[Orogun01]

Welp I just saw something pretty gross on KiA. Won't link cuz would get me the banhammer, but it's something pretty screwed up that happened to Lizzy.

Is it that one thing that someone did to a picture of her?

[Meshugger]

I am a bit out the loop now. Who is Lizzy and what has happened to her?

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I am a bit out the loop now. Who is Lizzy and what has happened to her?

She's a girl who uses the tag and some aGGros are passing around a picture of her that someone **** a load on.

[Meshugger]

Sounds like a desperate cry from a losing enemy. She doesn't need to do anything but laugh at their feeble attempts.

 

//EDIT: Where's her spot on BBC, CNN, MSNBC now?

Edited December 30, 2014 by Meshugger

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Sounds like a desperate cry from a losing enemy. She doesn't need to do anything but laugh at their feeble attempts.

 

//EDIT: Where's her spot on BBC, CNN, MSNBC now?

I just find it a bit ****ed up coming from esteemed advocates of women.

 

And Mike Cernovich and Chris Kluweare having a throwdown.

[BruceVC]

 

I keep dipping in here, and purely as a matter of personal opinion this has to be the single most pointless and boring discussion we've ever had.

 

I'm sure that won't change anyone's mind. I just wanted it on record.

 

I'm not ignorant of feminist issues, or gaming, or blogging. But I call bull****.

During the Cold War the Russians were very keen to infiltrate counterculture movements to undermine the West they obviously didn't think it was pointless, specially since they used those methods to subvert Afghanistan.

Nowadays you see the result of what the Left has brought, you just have to look at Sweden to see an extreme of what this ideology means when it affects politics. Plus you have them also affecting the media because they want to preach their ideology, therefore they have turned entertainment into a political battlefield.

Maybe you don't see this a relevant but sadly your opinion doesn't change the fact that if they are ignored they will end up controlling the medium as they did with Games Journalism and the Indie scene. These are not isolated incidents as other facets of nerd culture have been affected, namely the tabletop and comic book communities. 

 

 

 

 

Hi Guys 

 

I'm back from my Xmas holiday, I had a great time 

 

Do you really see the GG movement as significant as the ideological conflict of the Cold War? I'm  not sure if you being serious?

Edited December 30, 2014 by BruceVC

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

 

I keep dipping in here, and purely as a matter of personal opinion this has to be the single most pointless and boring discussion we've ever had.

 

I'm sure that won't change anyone's mind. I just wanted it on record.

 

I'm not ignorant of feminist issues, or gaming, or blogging. But I call bull****.

 

During the Cold War the Russians were very keen to infiltrate counterculture movements to undermine the West they obviously didn't think it was pointless, specially since they used those methods to subvert Afghanistan.

Nowadays you see the result of what the Left has brought, you just have to look at Sweden to see an extreme of what this ideology means when it affects politics. Plus you have them also affecting the media because they want to preach their ideology, therefore they have turned entertainment into a political battlefield.

Maybe you don't see this a relevant but sadly your opinion doesn't change the fact that if they are ignored they will end up controlling the medium as they did with Games Journalism and the Indie scene. These are not isolated incidents as other facets of nerd culture have been affected, namely the tabletop and comic book communities.

 

Hi Guys 

 

I'm back from my Xmas holiday, I had a great time 

 

Do you really see the GG movement as significant as the ideological conflict of the Cold War? I'm  not sure if you being serious?

No, I do see it as a part of the Authoritarian v. Libertarian conflict though. I would say that is possibly as significant as the Cold War, despite being a largely democratic battle inside nations rather than a diplomatic battle between nations.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

I keep dipping in here, and purely as a matter of personal opinion this has to be the single most pointless and boring discussion we've ever had.

 

I'm sure that won't change anyone's mind. I just wanted it on record.

 

I'm not ignorant of feminist issues, or gaming, or blogging. But I call bull****.

During the Cold War the Russians were very keen to infiltrate counterculture movements to undermine the West they obviously didn't think it was pointless, specially since they used those methods to subvert Afghanistan.

Nowadays you see the result of what the Left has brought, you just have to look at Sweden to see an extreme of what this ideology means when it affects politics. Plus you have them also affecting the media because they want to preach their ideology, therefore they have turned entertainment into a political battlefield.

Maybe you don't see this a relevant but sadly your opinion doesn't change the fact that if they are ignored they will end up controlling the medium as they did with Games Journalism and the Indie scene. These are not isolated incidents as other facets of nerd culture have been affected, namely the tabletop and comic book communities.

 

Hi Guys 

 

I'm back from my Xmas holiday, I had a great time 

 

Do you really see the GG movement as significant as the ideological conflict of the Cold War? I'm  not sure if you being serious?

No, I do see it as a part of the Authoritarian v. Libertarian conflict though. I would say that is possibly as significant as the Cold War, despite being a largely democratic battle inside nations rather than a diplomatic battle between nations.

 

 

I didn't realize you look at this GG development in such  a serious manner

 

Can I ask you a few questions so that I'm clear on what you saying, what do you mean by the Authoritarian v. Libertarian conflict ? Can you give me an example so I understand ?

[Namutree]

 

Do you really see the GG movement as significant as the ideological conflict of the Cold War? I'm  not sure if you being serious?

 

GG as important as the cold war? Lol.

 

No, I certainly don't see GG as important as the cold war. I would hope no one does.

Edited December 30, 2014 by Namutree

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I didn't realize you look at this GG development in such  a serious manner

Not Gamergate specifically, the Authoritarian v. Libertarian conflict. I do believe that Gamergate is a facet of that, and what evidence there is shows that the group commonly refereed to as "pro-gg" tend to lean libertarian.

 

Can I ask you a few questions so that I'm clear on what you saying, 1. what do you mean by the Authoritarian v. Libertarian conflict ? 2. Can you give me an example so I understand ?

1. The ideological divide between the desire for more personal freedom and the desire for more governmental power/control in order to provide order and enforce "niceness".

 

2. The debate over government surveillance without a warrant.(see PATRIOT act) Essentially is it worth giving up your right to privacy in order to give the authorities more tools to supposedly prevent terrorism.

Edited December 30, 2014 by KaineParker