Journalism and sexism in the games industry

[Amentep]

 

How about make your own choices about what to consume. How %&$#ing difficult is that?

Would you support a child-rape simulator? A holocaust simulator?

 

How does saying the consumer should make their own choices imply support for any specific game content?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Amentep

[Barothmuk]

Extreme hyperboles were never really all they great at objectively address the actual situation at hand.

Sure they are.

 

Does he actually support content being decided purely by silent consumer choices or does he have his own standard he wishes enforced? Would it having millions of dollars in marketing affect his perception of its production/distribution? What if it became really popular and the majority of games followed suit featuring simulated child-rape, would he still silently buy from an ever decreasing market of non-rape games or would he say "What the ****? Piss of with the rape."

Edited December 5, 2014 by Barothmuk

[Longknife]

Btw, slightly off-topic but I just googled "Japan Rape game" to make sure I wasn't wrong, and check this out:

 

 

 

There's a couple they choose to interview that cracked me the **** up. It's like deja vu.

[Longknife]

 

Extreme hyperboles were never really all they great at objectively address the actual situation at hand.

Sure they are.

 

Does he actually support content being decided purely by silent consumer choices or does he have his own standard he wishes enforced? Would it having millions of dollars in marketing affect his perception of its production/distribution? What if it became really popular and the majority of games followed suite featuring simulated child-rape, would he still silently buy from an ever decreasing market of non-rape games or would he say "What the ****? Piss of with the rape."

 

 

 

[Barothmuk]

No u

[Nonek]

Is going Full MacIntosh contagious now?

[Keyrock]

My favorite part of that article is at the end where the author loudly proclaims (I imagine he's beating his chest while he does it) that Rockstar is going to "learn a hard lesson" from this.  What "hard lesson" are they learning, exactly?  GTA V made a bajillion dollars the first time around, setting all types of records, and it's making a somewhat smaller, yet still thoroughly impressive, bajillion dollars this time around.  Australia, quite frankly, is a rather insignificant market, in the grand scheme of things.  Plus, the people that really want the game will just get it anyway, just from other outlets.  While Rockstar and Take Two are swimming in their swimming pools full of money, Scrooge McDuck style, I'm sure this "hard lesson" is really eating them up.

[Fighter]

 

Extreme hyperboles were never really all they great at objectively address the actual situation at hand.

Sure they are.

 

Does he actually support content being decided purely by silent consumer choices or does he have his own standard he wishes enforced? Would it having millions of dollars in marketing affect his perception of its production/distribution? What if it became really popular and the majority of games followed suite featuring simulated child-rape, would he still silently buy from an ever decreasing market of non-rape games or would he say "What the ****? Piss of with the rape."

 

 

Are you kidding me?

[Keyrock]

And the winner for most ludicrous argument of the week featuring a spectacularly implausible scenario is

 

 

Does he actually support content being decided purely by silent consumer choices or does he have his own standard he wishes enforced? Would it having millions of dollars in marketing affect his perception of its production/distribution? What if it became really popular and the majority of games followed suit featuring simulated child-rape, would he still silently buy from an ever decreasing market of non-rape games or would he say "What the ****? Piss of with the rape."

 

Congratulations, your have earned the prestigious mental gymnastics gold medal!

 

Please rise as the national anthem from whatever country Barothmuk is from plays.

 

♫♪ ♫♫♪ ♬♫♫ ♬♬

[Barothmuk]

Are you kidding me?

Seeing that you're dodging the question then I'm going to assume you too have limits to the 'silent consumer' position or at least advocate arbitrary standards of rules.

 

And the winner for most ludicrous argument of the week featuring a spectacularly implausible scenario is.

The plausibility of the scenario is unimportant. We're testing the consistency of the position itself.

 

This is a pretty basic way to examine an argument.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Barothmuk

[Longknife]

...Wait a minute.

I just got really confused while typing up a post.

McIntosh & Anita = Feminist

McIntosh & Anita = So pro-better-treatment-of-Muslims that they find celebrating Osama bin Laden's death disgusting but celebrating that "warhawk" guy's death totally called for.

 

 

...Are they aware Muslim culture is pretty ****ing sexist? Like let me clarify my personal approach is pretty hands-off and let them have their own culture, but surely a feminist spokesperson voicing support for muslims comes off a bit...odd?  Yeah you can support less bigotry against muslims cause lord knows the west needs that, but it STILL feels so weird and surreal coming from a feminist. We're talking about countries where a woman can be killed for claiming she was raped if she cannot prove it without a shadow of a doubt, or where a woman can be killed for going outside without being accompanied by a man.

[Fighter]

Seeing that you're dodging the question then I'm going to assume you too have limits to the 'silent consumer' position or at least advocate arbitrary standards of rules.

 

It is a ridiculous and pointless extremist argument that, yes, I don't really want to engage with. But ok, in principle yes I do think no subject matter should be forbidden in fiction, no matter what. No serious developer will ever make a child rape simulator outside of obscure Japanese hentai games and none will ever become popular.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Fighter

[Malcador]

 

How about make your own choices about what to consume. How %&$#ing difficult is that?

Would you support a child-rape simulator? A holocaust simulator?

 

What do you mean by 'support' here? Give money to them ? Or be okay with them being sold ?

[Keyrock]

The plausibility of the scenario is unimportant. We're testing the consistency of the position itself.

This is a pretty basic way to examine an argument.

 

In that case, while neither game is one I would have any desire to play, I support both games right to exist.  In the case of the child-rape simulator, it's a moot point, in the US anyway, since that would be very much illegal.  As for the holocaust simulator, yes, I support its right to be sold.

[Barothmuk]

But ok, in principle yes I do think no subject matter should be forbidden in fiction, no matter what.

Doesn't really answer my question but good enough.

 

I'll infer you believe you'd stick to silently consuming instead of complaining thus you're position is consistent. That said you'd apparently stay silent in a culture where glorifying child-rape is normative. You monster.

 

Really I'm indifferent to the GTA5 shebackle as I know basically nothing about it; what I'm more annoyed by is the continuous support for silent ethical consumerism as a means of change. It's an almost entirely useless strategy.

Edited December 5, 2014 by Barothmuk

[Longknife]

 

Seeing that you're dodging the question then I'm going to assume you too have limits to the 'silent consumer' position or at least advocate arbitrary standards of rules.

 

It is a ridiculous and pointless extremist argument that, yes, I don't really want to engage with. But ok, in principle yes I do think no subject matter should be forbidden in fiction, no matter what. No serious developer will ever make a child rape simulator outside of obscure Japanese hentai games and none will ever become popular.

 

 

 

If we're to take his argument seriously, let me ask a counter-question:

 

What do you propose one should do in the event they find themselves existing in a world where child rape simulators are as dominant of a genre as first-person shooters are today, Barothmuk?

 

The most you can do is voice disapproval yourself. You can say you don't like the game and consider it morally appalling, and either the culture will listen to you or not. If they do, hooray, if they don't, sad day for you but no one is forcing you to play these games.

 

Are you suggesting that in such an event, a person should hijack the USA nuclear missle launch system and bomb the developers headquarters and houses into oblivion? /ridiculous hyperbole

[Barothmuk]

Are you suggesting that in such an event, a person should hijack the USA nuclear missle launch system and bomb the developers headquarters and houses into oblivion? /ridiculous hyperbole

Far more effective strategy than silent consumerism.

[Amentep]

The plausibility of the scenario is unimportant.

When the lim x → ∞ = 0 happens in probablility, sure something might be possible, but the scenario is such an outlier that its near impossible to account for.

 

Should Nobakov never been allowed to write Lolita? Should Lanzmann never been allowed to make Shoah?

 

The problem with your theoretical hyperbole is that there are probably books and movies that already deal with the themes or incidents that you're talking about. And Japan has already put out games involving the rape of virtual minors.

[Longknife]

 

Are you suggesting that in such an event, a person should hijack the USA nuclear missle launch system and bomb the developers headquarters and houses into oblivion? /ridiculous hyperbole

Far more effective strategy than silent consumerism.

 

At what point did he suggest he would silently consume such media? He suggested people make their own choices. In the scenario you've named, he would find himself not consuming or supporting such media, he just wouldn't be killing off millions of people either like you seem to think would be an appropriate response.

 

 

And again:

 

 

What do you propose one should do in the event they find themselves existing in a world where child rape simulators are as dominant of a genre as first-person shooters are today, Barothmuk?

Edited December 5, 2014 by Longknife

[Barothmuk]

At what point did he suggest he would silently consume such media? He suggested people make their own choices.

And organized protest, critique and condemnation functions as a type of "choice" does it not?

 

Or is choice merely limited to praying to the gods someone might make a product that doesn't contain x negative trend.

[Fighter]

Or is choice merely limited to praying to the gods someone might make a product that doesn't contain x negative trend.

 

And organized protest, critique and condemnation functions as a type of "choice" does it not?

 

How about create demand for the things you want and **** off from things other people want?

[Longknife]

 

At what point did he suggest he would silently consume such media? He suggested people make their own choices.

And organized protest, critique and condemnation functions as a type of "choice" does it not?

 

Or is choice merely limited to praying to the gods someone might make a product that doesn't contain x negative trend.

 

 

You are suggesting that "live and let live" is a loser mentality and that everyone should act as a holy crusader that will stop at nothing to change the world into something they agree with. Pro-tip: Crusades and a refusal to accept the existence of dissenting opinion is how innocent people wind up dead with the justifcation being that the innocent people were not so innocent.

[Gorgon]

What is it about GTA 5 anyway. Is there some particular critisism or is it just that it's called GTA 5 and the same people campaigned to ban #4

[Longknife]

What is it about GTA 5 anyway. Is there some particular critisism or is it just that it's called GTA 5 and the same people campaigned to ban #4

 

 

Prostitutes are an aknowledged part of reality in GTA 5.

[Orogun01]

My favorite part of that article is at the end where the author loudly proclaims (I imagine he's beating his chest while he does it) that Rockstar is going to "learn a hard lesson" from this.  What "hard lesson" are they learning, exactly?  GTA V made a bajillion dollars the first time around, setting all types of records, and it's making a somewhat smaller, yet still thoroughly impressive, bajillion dollars this time around.  Australia, quite frankly, is a rather insignificant market, in the grand scheme of things.  Plus, the people that really want the game will just get it anyway, just from other outlets.  While Rockstar and Take Two are swimming in their swimming pools full of money, Scrooge McDuck style, I'm sure this "hard lesson" is really eating them up.

I'd like to add to this that the Australian market has always been a problematic one and that developers have changed their games just to be distributed on Australia. Maybe this will the final coffin nail for Au. I mean, just how big is the Australian market?

 

On a related note; poor Yatzhee won't be getting anymore games.