Sensuki's Suggestions #029: Customizable Main HUD [Mockup]

[Sensuki]

My concern is mainly reltated to combat, you don't see enough lines at a time, and long lines often take up two lines with the current default size.

[Doppelschwert]

I like both mockups, great job.

 

However, I think that displaying the class ressources for monks, chanters and ciphers looks kind of bad displayed as numbers. At least on my native resolution of 1280x1024 in the current game the numbers are way too small to see them at a glance. For monks, I think it should either be a bar that is broken up into segments, depending on the maximal number of wounds you can carry, or wounds should just be displayed as buffs/debuffs because that is actually exactly what they are and how they are treated as a mechanic. For ciphers and chanters I guess it would be nice just to have a bar where by hovering over an ability, the cost would be highlighted on the bar.

 

I suck at doing mockups, so I hope it's clear what I mean with this verbal description.

[Sensuki]

Well Chanters chants is usually in the single digits, particularly due to the game's combat being so short. Monk Wounds cap out at 10, and are usually also single digits. Cipher Powers start at 20 at the start of combat, not sure how high they can go, 50? 100?

 

Those class resources (and particularly the animal companion) definitely make the portrait area a bit messy.

[Kjaamor]

4: I feel like we need to move "cooldown" timers to the portraits to make it easier to see, it is too small/hard to see on those tiny hud elements.

5: Addition of current action indicators on the portrait is helpful in my opinion because it lets you tell at a fast glance if your mage has started that buff yet, has the rogue finished moving, blah blah blah without having to interpret the sometimes VERY busy game screen.

 

These are the two best suggestions to come from this thread, in my opinion.

 

Combat would be a good deal less of a cluster**** if it was clear what each character was doing and how long into it they were.

 

To an extent, the fact that this is would be better visible on or around the portraits does not exactly heap praise upon the chosen combination of game graphics and gameplay.

[Sensuki]

I can support this in my mockup actually. Let me revise it.

[Sensuki]

How's this? (same size as before, but one less zero)

 

[Bester]

At least on my native resolution of 1280x1024 in the current game the numbers are way too small to see them at a glance.

 

 

I literally had a monitor with your exact resolution and realistically thinking about how W2, PoE and TToN would look on that screen, half a year ago I went shopping for a 27 inch monitor. I never expected PoE to be playable in 1280*1024 and I still don't.

 

If you think this is exclusive to PoE, open Hearthstone in 1280*1024 and you won't be able to even make out card names. Even Blizzard doesn't support small screens anymore. It's time to let go.

[Sensuki]

The Resolution at 720p was actually fine in v301, but they changed their scaling system and now it's bad. I believe it was a direct result of supporting 4:3, they decided to just scale the assets they had rather than modify them for 4:3

Edited November 7, 2014 by Sensuki

[Karkarov]

The Resolution at 720p was actually fine in v301, but they changed their scaling system and now it's bad. I believe it was a direct result of supporting 4:3, they decided to just scale the assets they had rather than modify them for 4:3

You cant blame them, no one even makes 4:3 monitors anymore.

[Karkarov]

Okay BB Inspired UI version 2.  This is the minimalist version.  Notes for this one!

 

1: Chronometer can no longer be hidden but I put it where it is for a reason, I wanted to keep the party bar totally out of the corner and I think it is a nice aesthetic piece for an otherwise barebones UI.  Additionally if I want to later this placement gives me the option of vertically orienting the Main Menu.

2: Combat log is back on the right but you can easily imagine these elements just being flip flopped.  It work's either way.

3: Blue action bar is to show that the character is using an ability that has a cast time to it, when it fills up the cast is done.  When it is just yellow it is their generic cooldown between actions.

4: The "action icon" actually tuned out a little smaller than I wanted so just pretend it is like 5 pixels bigger all around.

5: The portraits are SLIGHTLY smaller than they currently are in game.  We are talking 73x93 instead of 76x96.  Not a huge change, but much smaller than my earlier UI which was 85x105.

 

Anyway, enjoy:

 

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[Doppelschwert]

Good job, although I'd still like to see a better solution for the class ressources instead of numbers that are crammed to the bottom of the screen.

[Silent Winter]

Okay BB Inspired UI version 2.  This is the minimalist version.  Notes for this one!

Also nice (though I prefer the flipped version with log on left).

I especially like:

3: Blue action bar is to show that the character is using an ability that has a cast time to it, when it fills up the cast is done.  When it is just yellow it is their generic cooldown between actions.

simple, at a glance, elegance.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Silent Winter

[Karkarov]

Good job, although I'd still like to see a better solution for the class ressources instead of numbers that are crammed to the bottom of the screen.

Well therein lies the rub.  There are only two ways in my opinion to get resources off a small bottom edge, and please bear in mind in both the UI's (and Sensuki's for that matter) that I posted the room allotted is larger than in the current BB.  First you could make a third resource bar that simple is or isn't there based on character class.  This is sort of weird as it makes some portraits bigger than others and just looks uneven.  Second, you could go for vertical orientation of the party say top left down which would allow for more vertical space to be used and wouldn't be an issue giving say 25-30 pixels to the display.  You could do it now but you would have a really big party window and I felt like the earlier border I put on was already bigger than I wanted and it wasn't even 20 pixels.

[Endarire]

Karakov: I like the UI, but would prefer the character portrais be on the left side with the combat log being center stage.  I need to know how much damage I'm dealing and taking and what sorts of special effects are happening.  I'd also like the combat log to be taller, being able to show 8-10 lines of text at a time.

[Karkarov]

Karakov: I like the UI, but would prefer the character portrais be on the left side with the combat log being center stage.  I need to know how much damage I'm dealing and taking and what sorts of special effects are happening.  I'd also like the combat log to be taller, being able to show 8-10 lines of text at a time.

I only show it at that height for two reasons.  1: It meshes well with the rest of the UI.  2: It is easier to crop it out cause that is the default BB size.  You can actually scale the combat log to whatever size you want in game already so I don't see a big need to show it bigger or what have you since that functionality already exists.

 

Log being in the middle I don't think really works for a number of reasons, but since you can scale the log however you want already in that minimal ui version you could technically make it take up half the screen which more than makes up for the not being in middle.  If you had the main menu the log could just be insanely massive.

[Kjaamor]

Even when I'm trying to photoshop well, I can't match Karkarov, Hormalark (?sp?) or Sensuki, but to hop on board and be creative rather than purely critical, here is my brief summary of ideas.

 

It's bad enough with the forum view, so if you decide to expand this I shall not be held responsible if you immediately contract retinal cancer.

 

 

Obviously it's fugly as you like, but here's what I'm trying to inspire in other creative sorts.

 

The overall idea is for a glance at the screen to provide as much key information as possible, and for the things used either less frequently or in isolation to be out of the way.

 

1. All characters, including the selected character, are stacked on the left of the screen.

 

The horrid MSpaint circles represent the current action of the character (I couldn't be arsed to paste the icons in, but that's what would be present)

 

A represents an action occurring at that precise moment, be that a skill, an auto-attack or movement. Practically, A isn't used much in PoE.

 

B represents an action (skill, auto or move) that has started but has not yet completed. To represent completion, the circle fills with blue in the manner of a clockface. When the whole square is blue, the action completes.

 

C represents the recovery time. The icon below (where C is placeholder) will be of the NEXT action, although the yellow filling clockface is the recovery time of the previous action.

 

The overall idea is that the first thing you look at on any screen (in the west) is the left hand side and the first thing you will see with this setup is what all your characters are doing, in a clear manner.

 

The currently selected character has their portrait enlarged.

 

I'll follow Sensuki in keeping status effects upon the portrait, although that joins the long list of things I couldn't be bothered to photoshop.

 

2. The combat log is to the left. After what each character is doing, this is the next most important thing, and as such comes in the next visual priority space; the bottom left.

 

3. The currently selected character portrait is central, followed by their potential actions. I wondered for a while if this would work okay, but I feel that these areas are examined less frequently that the others, and can be examined in greater isolation.

 

4. Things used even less frequently are stuffed in the bottom right.

 

5. Things used least frequently or taking the player out of the game are stuffed, alone, in the top right.

 

6. The pause/slow button sits in the bottom corner to anchor the surrounding elements, or for ease of use forpeoplewhodon'ttrustthatlongblankkeyatthebottomoftheirkeyboard.

 

 

Would you take anything, what would you ditch, and is five in the morning the best time to open up image manipulation software?

Edited November 9, 2014 by Kjaamor

[Quantics]

I'm not a fan of the different-sized portraits. I'd rather have all of them the same size, a bright green outline around the currently selected character portrait.

 

Also what happens to the huge portrait at the bottom-centre when you select multiple characters? Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Also, I think it would look better with no gap between portraits.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Quantics

[Sensuki]

I'd rather have all of them the same size, a bright green outline around the currently selected character portrait.

Yeah I'm not a fan of the fancy frames either, they're basically a waste of pixels.

[prodigydancer]

@Kjaamor

 

Circles aren't any more helpful than overhead bars because they don't help us assess the situation as a whole.

 

I already suggested (in this thread or in another one) using something akin to Cooldown Count addon from WoW. Since we're able to queue actions in PoE it could be modified to show not just recovery cooldowns but also action queues for all characters. If Obsidian is serious about fixing combat (time will tell) and fights won't typically be resolved in 1-2 rounds queues will be useful and we should be able to see them all at once.

[Sensuki]

^ No thanks. Those systems are designed for when you are queueing up the same rudimentary actions over and over again. The combat in Pillars of Eternity should be more reactional. Currently there's a few factors limiting that.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Sensuki

[prodigydancer]

There are only so many winning strategies for every given party composition.

 

We can come back to this discussion closer to launch day. As it stands right now, we don't need any specific UI all that much. All we need is to enter stealth mode to get the jump and, in your own words, "use strong openers" to get rid of certain enemies very quickly. Once the dangerous ones are down the rest doesn't matter. You do a lot of pausing in your combat tutorial video but since the important phase of the fight there only lasts 2 rounds it's not a big deal. And from your vs. Medreth series I got the impression that it's a typical scenario.

 

If Obsidian opts for a serious combat system revamp and longer fights, revisiting every character in every round may become quite tedious.

Edited November 9, 2014 by prodigydancer

[Kjaamor]

^ No thanks. Those systems are designed for when you are queueing up the same rudimentary actions over and over again. The combat in Pillars of Eternity should be more reactional. Currently there's a few factors limiting that.

 

Indeed. I would rather keep it to one action at a time. Currently, unless the Effects of AoEs are seriously adjusted, the on-character display is all too frequently hidden, or unclear. I prefer circles filling as clock faces to bars because I feel it helps to create a distinction and avoids there being too many similar looking meters at a glance.

 

The enlarged portrait size isn't crucial, of course, but it is important that there is sufficient clarity in which character you select. I actually did a fpw at the Ford today, because I thought I had my tank selected and in fact had my whole party, who proceeded to walk into a group of beetles, squishies first. The line around the frame must be a different colour to the background within.

[Sensuki]

There are only so many winning strategies for every given party composition.

 

We can come back to this discussion closer to launch day. As it stands right now, we don't need any specific UI all that much. All we need is to enter stealth mode to get the jump and, in your own words, "use strong openers" to get rid of certain enemies very quickly. Once the dangerous ones are down the rest doesn't matter. You do a lot of pausing in your combat tutorial video but since the important phase of the fight there only lasts 2 rounds it's not a big deal. And from your vs. Medreth series I got the impression that it's a typical scenario.

 

If Obsidian opts for a serious combat system revamp and longer fights, revisiting every character in every round may become quite tedious.

Well some of the problems at the moment are that many encounters require lots of per-rest ability use to beat. In the IE games you could auto attack your way through the majority of dungeons, and you had healing potions and all sorts of strategical resources at your disposal.

 

Longer encounters won't be a problem if the per hit damage isn't as high. In the IE games you didn't need to spam several spells in a row in all fights, usually only the big battles. Pillars of Eternity has this weird mix of higher activity, limited per-rest resources and limited resting. I don't think the designers have found the best mix of lethality, activity and resources to produce the smoothest gameplay yet.

 

In v278 adventuring day was a real concern because a few fights would have you out of health in about 5 minutes of gameplay. That wasn't very fun. The changes to the health system have made it a bit better, but there's still a long way to go wrangling it all together to get the right mix.

 

For many classes it's not much of an issue - Ciphers, Monks, Rogues, Chanters etc all have resources independent of per-rest, but if you're using a Priest, Druid or Wizard then over the course of adventuring day you're gonna run out of spells pretty quickly just like in BG1 and early IWD.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Sensuki

[StrangeCat]

Okay BB Inspired UI version 2.  This is the minimalist version.  Notes for this one!

 

1: Chronometer can no longer be hidden but I put it where it is for a reason, I wanted to keep the party bar totally out of the corner and I think it is a nice aesthetic piece for an otherwise barebones UI.  Additionally if I want to later this placement gives me the option of vertically orienting the Main Menu.

2: Combat log is back on the right but you can easily imagine these elements just being flip flopped.  It work's either way.

3: Blue action bar is to show that the character is using an ability that has a cast time to it, when it fills up the cast is done.  When it is just yellow it is their generic cooldown between actions.

4: The "action icon" actually tuned out a little smaller than I wanted so just pretend it is like 5 pixels bigger all around.

5: The portraits are SLIGHTLY smaller than they currently are in game.  We are talking 73x93 instead of 76x96.  Not a huge change, but much smaller than my earlier UI which was 85x105.

 

Anyway, enjoy:

 

----------

 

This is really the best I have seen.  It's a lot better then what the Devs have produced.   Great Job!

[Karkarov]

This is really the best I have seen.  It's a lot better then what the Devs have produced.   Great Job!

Thanks I appreciate the compliment :D