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Update on the Update

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Yeah the save/load cycle is the most critical issue, imo.  It really needs to be fixed to make the beta usable imo.  Thanks for this update.  The delay will be worth it.

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I'm sure they'll be persistent in fixing the issue by Christmas.

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What. Patch with no save you say? Reminds back in the days when I played Indiana Jones and the last crusade on my Amiga 500. I was rather inept and didn't know how to make a save disk so I tried numerous times to complete the game in one go. Needless to say, I never did finish it :). Still keep up the good work :)

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How many man-hours per sistent do you think they'll spend, and how many sistents do they have?

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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How many man-hours per sistent do you think they'll spend, and how many sistents do they have?

 

Uhm, what? They're being persistent about a save / load issue. Luke just gave Professor Layton his first clue...

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It took me a while to figure out too. And before I did, I thought of a similar joke as Lephys so seeing his post made me laugh a lot =P.

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Today's the day when we'll get lucky. I can feel it! Twelve hours from now, you just wait and see. Obsanta won't let us down.

Edited by IndiraLightfoot
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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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:) Tomorrow for Australia, today for us.  Maybe.


 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


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It's looking pretty good for Thursday - Tomorrow Josh wants to do a balance pass over the backer beta before we release it. We have made adjustments to how DR and DT work, and combat is feeling too fast right now. He can talk about it when he gets a chance to pop on here. The save/load issue was fixed too. I'll keep this thread updated if things change.

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Follow me on twitter - @adam_brennecke

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Sounds good, Glad to hear about the look at combat.  I look forward to trying the update out.


 I have but one enemy: myself  - Drow saying


nakia_banner.jpg


 

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Interested to hear about the armor change, since that did need addressing. Also interested to hear in why you think combat is too fast (I agree it's too fast, but maybe not in the way that QA/devs do) and how you plan to tackle the problem.

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Interested to hear about the armor change, since that did need addressing. Also interested to hear in why you think combat is too fast (I agree it's too fast, but maybe not in the way that QA/devs do) and how you plan to tackle the problem.

 

It's way too fast, even faster than 364, because of the armor changes. Josh can speak to it more, imo characters are doing too much damage too quickly. I haven't played around with it enough to make a detailed analysis yet. 

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Follow me on twitter - @adam_brennecke

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Well characters (and creatures) have always been doing too much damage, so that's no news to me wink.png

Edited by Sensuki

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Well characters (and creatures) have always been doing too much damage, so that's no news to me wink.png

 

Emphasis on Creatures :p

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In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!

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It's way too fast, even faster than 364, because of the armor changes. Josh can speak to it more, imo characters are doing too much damage too quickly. I haven't played around with it enough to make a detailed analysis yet.

 

I hope that Josh uses his advertised radical balancing method -- cut it in half if it's too high, double it if it's too low - so that we can see a significantly slower combat flow. A lot of the abilities only provide a measurable benefit if the combat is long enough.


The Seven Blunders/Roots of Violence: Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle. (Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi)

 

Let's Play the Pools Saga (SSI Gold Box Classics)

Pillows of Enamored Warfare -- The Zen of Nodding

 

 

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Action Speed is not really the problem, though.

 

TBH I prefer actual problem identification and analysis to inexact doubling and halving methods. Should be pretty easy to identify yourself what feels better.

Edited by Sensuki

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Action Speed is not really the problem, though.

 

TBH I prefer actual problem identification and analysis to inexact doubling and halving methods. Should be pretty easy to identify yourself what feels better.

Action speed and damage output needs fixing. I'd say damage output is the bigger problem, but movement is also a bit too fast. 

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And who talked about action speed? Adam was talking about damage, and I was responding to him. Less damage per swing, longer combat, that's what I would like to see.

 

Josh's method of strong variable swings is actually pretty good. Don't even dream about having a proper mathematical representation of the entirety of combat. You can compare the value of Dmg% to Accuracy% (Might vs. Perception), yes, that's about how far math will take you. Function tables themselves don't tell you anything about how certain game elements are actually used in the game. I've been balancing a strategy game mod for 3 years in the past, and watching replays was always the most valuable input to make decisions.

 

EDIT:

When you buff of nerf something slightly, fine-tuning, tweaking, most players won't adjust their routines, their heuristics and you get "wrong data" out of them. It's as if nothing has happened. Then you tweak it more, and more, and suddenly, players decide to re-route their brain, there is a landslide, the perception changes to the opposite. It's faster to get the boundary data on what is too high and what is too low if you make radical changes first, and then tweak after the boundaries of "this is OP/this sucks" have been revealed.

Edited by Endrosz
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The Seven Blunders/Roots of Violence: Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle. (Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi)

 

Let's Play the Pools Saga (SSI Gold Box Classics)

Pillows of Enamored Warfare -- The Zen of Nodding

 

 

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watching replays was always the most valuable input to make decisions.

Yeah no doubt. That's why I provide in game examples for pretty much everything I do. I prefer the method competitive games like DotA 2 and Starcraft use for balancing.

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And who talked about action speed? Adam was talking about damage, and I was responding to him. Less damage per swing, longer combat, that's what I would like to see.

 

Josh's method of strong variable swings is actually pretty good. Don't even dream about having a proper mathematical representation of the entirety of combat. You can compare the value of Dmg% to Accuracy% (Might vs. Perception), yes, that's about how far math will take you. Function tables themselves don't tell you anything about how certain game elements are actually used in the game. I've been balancing a strategy game mod for 3 years in the past, and watching replays was always the most valuable input to make decisions.

 

EDIT:

When you buff of nerf something slightly, fine-tuning, tweaking, most players won't adjust their routines, their heuristics and you get "wrong data" out of them. It's as if nothing has happened. Then you tweak it more, and more, and suddenly, players decide to re-route their brain, there is a landslide, the perception changes to the opposite. It's faster to get the boundary data on what is too high and what is too low if you make radical changes first, and then tweak after the boundaries of "this is OP/this sucks" have been revealed.

I wish you worked at Blizzard original.gif

SC2 could use people that think like this.

Edited by archangel979

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