Happiest Countries in the World proves Western Ideology Works

[Longknife]

This is odd....

I'm familiar with these lists, and while Denmark at the top is tradition, the majority of the list was always South America, yet here all of South America is entirely absent...

[BruceVC]

Exactly, Bruce. What does SA want to do? Sell everything to China and live in their hybrid Capitalist-lite one-party state?

 

Look at the alternatives. As a world-weary proponent of 'the least worst' school of thought, your initial proposition is self-evidently correct.

 

And that's another contentious point for me in African context. Some people are so opposed to the West that they say  " we should be looking at China  for leadership because there economy is doing so well "

 

My response is something along the lines of  " China, really? In China you have a one party state and no trade unions, no real workers rights. In South Africa we give much recognition to workers right ( too much IMO as the trade unions hamper our economic growth  but that's another debate ) and the fact we are a Democracy where the constitution governs our country and not even the government is above that,  so if you think that somehow we could implement a system of government like the Chinese people are deluded "

 

Because by following the Chinese system of government we might as well tear up our constitution

[BruceVC]

This is odd....

 

I'm familiar with these lists, and while Denmark at the top is tradition, the majority of the list was always South America, yet here all of South America is entirely absent...

 

I would say that list is relatively consistent irrespective of who does the survey, do some searches around " happiest citizens in the world " and post the results? You may be right about South American countries but I don't recall them always being in these types of lists

[Monte Carlo]

China... man that deserves a whole new thread. It's a house of cards. A ship of fools. I'd not tie myself economically to that mast.

 

Their day in the sun is over and the internal contradictions of the 21st century versus the Chinese communist party's diktats will not end happily. It will make Tienanmen Square look like a minor bar-fight on a Saturday night.

[JadedWolf]

This is odd....

 

I'm familiar with these lists, and while Denmark at the top is tradition, the majority of the list was always South America, yet here all of South America is entirely absent...

 

I don't know too much about these happiness lists, but I remember hearing that they did experiments seeing how people reacted to things like people injuring themselves or dropping their groceries, and if I remember correctly people in South America were more likely to actually go and help them compared to other places.

 

This may be the experiment in question: http://www.fresnostate.edu/kremen/bonnercenter/documents/Kindness.pdf

[BruceVC]

 

This is odd....

 

I'm familiar with these lists, and while Denmark at the top is tradition, the majority of the list was always South America, yet here all of South America is entirely absent...

 

I don't know too much about these happiness lists, but I remember hearing that they did experiments seeing how people reacted to things like people injuring themselves or dropping their groceries, and if I remember correctly people in South America were more likely to actually go and help them compared to other places.

 

This may be the experiment in question: http://www.fresnostate.edu/kremen/bonnercenter/documents/Kindness.pdf

 

 

Jaded congrats, I see you guys are number 4.

 

But that's probably because you guys are stoned all the time.....so wouldn't be happy under those circumstances right? 

[Gorgon]

The first thing they teach you about statistics is that you can't cherry pick two things and say they are related because the numbers look favorable to make that comparison. 

 

 

Just sayin'

[BruceVC]

The first thing they teach you about statistics is that you can't cherry pick two things and say they are related because the numbers look favorable to make that comparison. 

 

 

Just sayin'

Do you dispute the ability of the UN or any similar organisation  to ever to  be able to  produce any kind of accurate reporting about trends and global statistics?

[Sarex]

The people in Nazi Germany were very happy too.

[Gorgon]

The premise is that the western world is happier and that therefore its ideology is superior ?

 

Well, the western world could be happier because of something other than its system of government and its values. You can make the argument that your premise is the cause and you can include those statistics in your argument, but (this is the important part) you can't say that the statistics show it. That's not how statistics work. 

[BruceVC]

The premise is that the western world is happier and that therefore its ideology is superior ?

 

Well, the western world could be happier because of something other than its system of government and its values. You can make the argument that your premise is the cause and you can include those statistics in your argument, but (this is the important part) you can't say that the statistics show it. That's not how statistics work. 

 

Okay I see your point and its valid

 

Let me ask you a different question, considering all the factors that constitute a government and how that effects the happiness of its citizens what would you say are factors outside of what the government influences that would make its citizens  happy?

 

And I know there are several but I'm interested in a scenario where you can say " country x is really happy and its got nothing to do with how the government is run "

Edited October 19, 2014 by BruceVC

[obyknven]

 

[Barothmuk]

Annnd this thread went from adorably naïve to butt**** insane.

 

Conservatives and neolibs are the worst.

[TrashMan]

*Takes over a country*

 

*dumps happy drugs into water supply*

 

*BEST COUNTRY IN THE WORLD!*

[Longknife]

Did some digging and while I couldn't find a list with all the South American countries on the list (occassionally found Costa Rica, Mexico or Brazil, and likewise I find it fairly understandable I couldn't find them as now the newer dated lists flood the search results), I did notice something I wanted to note: some of these lists factor in economic growth, life expectancy and social support as factors that make a country happy. In that sense it's no wonder this list is suddenly devoid of South America while I swear I've seen lists including it. I don't see any evidence of this within the list Bruce linked, yet his list DOES correlate very well with another list from 2013 that did review those things: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/world-happiness-report-happiest-countries_n_3894041.html

In short, just take these with a grain of salt, as it's important to understand WHAT is used to determine happiness.

 

 

 

The premise is that the western world is happier and that therefore its ideology is superior ?

 

Well, the western world could be happier because of something other than its system of government and its values. You can make the argument that your premise is the cause and you can include those statistics in your argument, but (this is the important part) you can't say that the statistics show it. That's not how statistics work. 

 

 

 

Another factor I'd say is highly important? Weather. Countless studies regarding suicide rates have shown suicide rates spike in the absence of sun.

 

 

 

So Obama offers gay rights and weed while Putin offers babies and conservatively dressed women?

[BruceVC]

Did some digging and while I couldn't find a list with all the South American countries on the list (occassionally found Costa Rica, Mexico or Brazil, and likewise I find it fairly understandable I couldn't find them as now the newer dated lists flood the search results), I did notice something I wanted to note: some of these lists factor in economic growth, life expectancy and social support as factors that make a country happy. In that sense it's no wonder this list is suddenly devoid of South America while I swear I've seen lists including it. I don't see any evidence of this within the list Bruce linked, yet his list DOES correlate very well with another list from 2013 that did review those things: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/09/world-happiness-report-happiest-countries_n_3894041.html

 

In short, just take these with a grain of salt, as it's important to understand WHAT is used to determine happiness.

 

 

 

The premise is that the western world is happier and that therefore its ideology is superior ?

 

Well, the western world could be happier because of something other than its system of government and its values. You can make the argument that your premise is the cause and you can include those statistics in your argument, but (this is the important part) you can't say that the statistics show it. That's not how statistics work. 

 

 

 

Another factor I'd say is highly important? Weather. Countless studies regarding suicide rates have shown suicide rates spike in the absence of sun.

 

 

 

 

So Obama offers gay rights and weed while Putin offers babies and conservatively dressed women?

 

 

" So Obama offers gay rights and weed while Putin offers babies and conservatively dressed women"

 

That comment made me laugh because that's exactly  the propaganda message its trying to convey  

[obyknven]

 

 

 

So Obama offers gay rights and weed while Putin offers babies and conservatively dressed women?

So Obama offers sins and butthurt in hell while Putin offers paradise and blessing  in Edem. 

[Gorgon]

Sounds boring

[Walsingham]

I'm not at all clear why having sex with babies and grandmothers is better than gay sex.

[Malcador]

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/03/20/travel/happiest-countries-to-visit/index.html

 

We have touched on this topic before and I have personally made the point that "Western culture is the superior culture to others " and this was criticised by some as hubris, inaccurate  and being "out of touch with reality "

 

But I think its a good time to revisit this discussion. When I say " Western ideology " is superior the fact is  that this list confirms this as the top ten countries  are all Western countries and they have the happiest citizens in the world

 

I'm not saying that Western countries have necessarily the cleverest people or that there aren't faults. The point is  that Western Democracies work. Despite there faults they give there citizens the best quality of life end of the day. So what's wrong with saying " Western ideology " offers the best system of government for its citizens and therefore are the best example of how countries should be run?

 

If you disagree with the my point that Western countries have the happiest citizens, and therefore the best governments, then please produce your own list so we can discuss it

 

I see the Scandinavian countries are again in the top 10 list, so once again the important consideration  of there socialist hybrid model really seems to work. High employment rate, high taxes but very effective government institutions. Isn't this model something we all should be aspiring to?

Kind of all over the place here, so people in Western countries are happier, but you conclude Western culture is superior. Then you start talking about Western ideology.

 

7/10 though, given the non-Western posters we have on here and the Western ones we have, this seems like it will catch on well.

[PrimeJunta]

I just moved to the #1 country on that list. (From the #7 country, so it's not that huge a leap.) 

 

Funny thing is, I'm thinking that there may be something to it. People do seem unreasonably happy here. We just went to a family gathering yesterday and compared to a similar affair in Finland everbody looked healthier, more fit, more relaxed, and generally better-adjusted. Trying to figure out why. Some things I believe I have observed:

1. There's a lot of trust. It shows in simple things like a delivery man buzzing the door and leaving a big box of wine in the entrance, people mostly leaving their doors open, paying for stuff when you pick it up rather than when you order it, people leaving their dogs or babies outside the store when going in, kids talking to you to ask if they can pet the dog or where you're from, and so on. Also larger things, such as registering for residence going extremely straightforwardly with no documentation needed apart from showing the passport.
2. Work-life balance. People work short hours, but they do it extremely intensively. Then they do what they do in their pastime equally intensively, and a lot of that is physical, outdoors activity—cycling, running, sailing or other watersport, and so on. Shows also as great attention to detail, with both physical objects and spaces, and processes very well thought-out.
3. Flexibility. There are rules, but the Danes like to explain the why of the rules a lot, and many of them are written "flexibly." For example, not "Don't leave the path" but "The escarpment is vulnerable, please avoid going there."

Basically this country is... reassuring. There's a feeling that things are set up so that you can minimize worrying about serious and tedious stuff and concentrate on fun or productive stuff. There's gotta be a scary downside to it, but I haven't figured it out yet.

 

On the other hand, maybe it's the beer. Everybody drinks a lot of beer here. Somehow they manage not to keel over dead of acute alcoholism though, go figure.

[Malcador]

Definitely is not the experience here in Canada, so maybe it is Scandinavia that is superior to all others.

[BruceVC]

I just moved to the #1 country on that list. (From the #7 country, so it's not that huge a leap.) 

 

Funny thing is, I'm thinking that there may be something to it. People do seem unreasonably happy here. We just went to a family gathering yesterday and compared to a similar affair in Finland everbody looked healthier, more fit, more relaxed, and generally better-adjusted. Trying to figure out why. Some things I believe I have observed:

1. There's a lot of trust. It shows in simple things like a delivery man buzzing the door and leaving a big box of wine in the entrance, people mostly leaving their doors open, paying for stuff when you pick it up rather than when you order it, people leaving their dogs or babies outside the store when going in, kids talking to you to ask if they can pet the dog or where you're from, and so on. Also larger things, such as registering for residence going extremely straightforwardly with no documentation needed apart from showing the passport.
2. Work-life balance. People work short hours, but they do it extremely intensively. Then they do what they do in their pastime equally intensively, and a lot of that is physical, outdoors activity—cycling, running, sailing or other watersport, and so on. Shows also as great attention to detail, with both physical objects and spaces, and processes very well thought-out.
3. Flexibility. There are rules, but the Danes like to explain the why of the rules a lot, and many of them are written "flexibly." For example, not "Don't leave the path" but "The escarpment is vulnerable, please avoid going there."

Basically this country is... reassuring. There's a feeling that things are set up so that you can minimize worrying about serious and tedious stuff and concentrate on fun or productive stuff. There's gotta be a scary downside to it, but I haven't figured it out yet.

 

On the other hand, maybe it's the beer. Everybody drinks a lot of beer here. Somehow they manage not to keel over dead of acute alcoholism though, go figure.

 

Well that's an amazing endorsement of Denmark, very sincere and interesting. Good post

[Longknife]

So Obama offers sins and butthurt in hell while Putin offers paradise and blessing  in Edem. 

Interesting...

 

Tell me more about this...Edem place.

[HoonDing]

Just looked at top 10. All those countries are dreadfully boring.