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A question for any Catholic forum members


Monte Carlo

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Hi.

 

Are there any practising Catholics on the forum? Ideally you'd be a regular church-goer with an interest in church hierarchies and even politics. Maybe you'd had some religious instruction above and beyond that of a layman? Maybe you have a friend or relative that matches this description.

 

If so I'd like your help.

 

I'm writing a piece of speculative fiction which features elements of Catholicism. I want to get this right, not only because of my rampant OCD, but also because I know how offensive it is when people play fast and loose with faith in books and movies. Am I writing a hagiography about Catholics? No. Am I writing a hatchet piece with the usual clichés and tropes around the Church? No.

 

Disclaimer - I'm an atheist with no axe to grind, and definitely not of the Dawkinsian tradition. I simply want to run a few ideas by someone with an instinctive feel for what would come across as bogus or offensive.

 

PM me if you know anyone who'd like to help, it will involve not a lot of work, just some email conversations probably and of course they'll get a mention in any published work.

 

Cheers

MC

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Well before a false witness feeds you heresy, I'd start my research and cross check with the Cathecism of the Catholic Church, for all things orthodox and proper with Church doctrine.

 

Available at fine booksellers and online vendors everywhere.

"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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Catholic Priests are very willing to talk about matters of faith and doctrine. Specifically, I'd seek out a Jesuit priest as they are open minded, academic, and welcome rigorous and intellectually honest discussion.

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"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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Just sent a PM MC.

Edited by KaineParker

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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My wife is Catholic, and I attend with her somewhat regularly.  But I really recommend meeting with a priest.  I've had meetings with a couple different deacons, and both were a delight to discuss church history with.  They had some great insights that really helped me in my own teaching.  

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am a practicing catholic, but am doubtful we can help if you are genuine interested in church hierarchy.  ask a priest is good advice as we know only the basic priest<bishop<archbishop<cardinal<pope stuff. heck, we played golf with a monsignor 'least once a month for three years and we only got a fuzzy notion 'bout the specifics o' his title.  am suspecting that your question is far more complex (or far more simple) than you suspect. ask a member o' a vietnamese catholic church down in lousiana questions 'bout catholiscism may result in far different feedback than you get from a mexican catholic in el paso, texas, or a a polish catholic in chicago. throw in the middle and upper middle-class catholic, but-only-on-sunday catholics who lives everywhere in the US, and am guessing you get a whole different set o' responses. european catholics we has met is frequent having much different perspectives than is North American or South American catholics. you need also be aware that there is more than a few religious orders as well, and they got different views o' catholicism. jesuits, dominicans and fraciscans, etc. see things different... so too does the various orders o' nuns. and don't even get us started on all the various lay positions and titles that is possible in the catholic church. 'course, it is possible that none o' the aforementioned is relevant to your needs.

 

aside/example: am knowing that our monsignor friend irritated our sister because he drove a rather nice lexus and played golf regularly. we explained to her that monsignor o'conner had not taken a vow o' poverty. our sister went to a catholic high school and were a regular church attendee, but it nevertheless caught her off guard that a priest could have a nice car and an expensive set of golf clubs.  

 

ask a priest, but keep in mind that if you ask a priest in london about catholicism and then you set your story in mexico city, you may end up with readers who is just as dismissive o' your portrayal o' catholicism as you woulda gotten had you simply based your catholics 'pon multiple viewings o' the exorcist.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps an exorcist is actual a lay position within the church... doesn't require a priest and is no specific sacrament attached. 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I've had some nice PMs from people and am grateful. Will respond. I take Gromnir's point - English Catholicism for example is complex and is rooted in ancient prejudices and sectarianism that saw Anti-Catholicism enshrined in law for hundreds of years. Latin American Catholicism has a history of both liberation theology and ultra-conservatism. French Catholics helped Nazis flee justice for their own arcane reasons. Italian Catholics harboured Jews and sheltered them from the camps.

 

Is a complex picture.

 

What I'm seeking to understand is, I hope, slightly more universal and (crucially) not one-dimensional. The scenario I will posit is one where I want a gut impression from a Catholic or someone steeped in the culture of that faith - is what I'm saying utterly ludicrous and / or offensive or is there anything I've missed.

 

I'm also going to take a punt at predicting at what global Catholicism is going to be like in 'x' amount of years time afyer 'y' series of events. The response might be 'yeah, I see that... but."

 

That's the bit I'm interested in, TBH.

Edited by Monte Carlo

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revised advice: 

 

get feedback from as many catholics as possible.

 

ask 100 different catholics about such clearly proscribed activities as birth control, stem cell research or even abortion, and am expecting you will get considerable variety o' feedback.

 

hypothetical: a teen-aged catholic girl is raped and becomes pregnant. 

 

am not gonna even start with all the possible legal and moral issues and sub-issues that might be spawned by the aforementioned scenario, but those persons expecting uniformity o' response from catholics on all such questions and permutations would be finding themselves surprised.

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Huh, the specificity of the question is interesting. If this project were a painting, is future-Catholicism the canvas, or color-work to illustrate the subject.

Days of Future Catholicism?

"To be fair, if I was married to Milla Jovovich, I would also be happy just making movies that show off her butt." - Hurlsnot

"I originally just wanted to ignore this, but I can't sleep, so why not." - majestic

"I murdered my entire family as well as the police and priests investigating me for murdering my entire family in the name of Satan. Good times." - Bartimaeus

"I will undoubtedly cave and buy this since Nintendo has me by the balls with Shin Megami Tensei V." - Keyrock

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ps mc can always make self feel better about depictions o' catholicism by indulging in japanese media... and we don't mean the obvious anime liberties that include overly endowed, pre-teen battle nuns either. nagasaki actual has a goodly sized catholic population, so it always surprises us when we see such nonsense as sons carrying on the family tradition o' joining the priesthood. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I'm a practicing catholic.

And my uncle has been a priest for 60+ years (and a damn good one)

 

If you PM me questions, I can try to answer what I can. I can even ask him.

But you have to remember, that not even the Church is a monolithic as it may seem and catholic may have slightly different views on the same thing.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Ha ha ha the one thing all Catholics seem to agree on is that Catholics don't agree on lots of stuff.

 

That's helpful as (a) it gives me a bit of a get out of jail free card and (b) the Catholics in my book are divided into three camps themselves. I've invented a group called the Prelature of Saint James the Great too, making this stuff up has been tremendous fun. Learning about Saints has been genuinely fascinating.

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Just FYI - the popular view on many chuch stances is generally intepreted as a lot harsher than they actually are.

 

Things like "if you're not chistian you'll burn in hell!" are not correct.

* YOU ARE A WRONGULARITY FROM WHICH NO RIGHT CAN ESCAPE! *

Chuck Norris was wrong once - He thought HE made a mistake!

 

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Hi.

 

Are there any practising Catholics on the forum? Ideally you'd be a regular church-goer with an interest in church hierarchies and even politics. Maybe you'd had some religious instruction above and beyond that of a layman? Maybe you have a friend or relative that matches this description.

 

If so I'd like your help.

 

I'm writing a piece of speculative fiction which features elements of Catholicism. I want to get this right, not only because of my rampant OCD, but also because I know how offensive it is when people play fast and loose with faith in books and movies. Am I writing a hagiography about Catholics? No. Am I writing a hatchet piece with the usual clichés and tropes around the Church? No.

 

Disclaimer - I'm an atheist with no axe to grind, and definitely not of the Dawkinsian tradition. I simply want to run a few ideas by someone with an instinctive feel for what would come across as bogus or offensive.

 

PM me if you know anyone who'd like to help, it will involve not a lot of work, just some email conversations probably and of course they'll get a mention in any published work.

 

Cheers

MC

You could actually go to a catholic service for a few weeks or so. It's free after all and probably the best research you're going to find. You'll find it's a pretty pressure free environment if you're worried about being converted or anything. 

"Be on the lookout for thieves, trespassers, aaaand COMMUNISTS!"

The Director FO4

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I am not Catholic, but from knowing a few Catholics I'd say it's about family.

 

You are Catholic because of your family, you attend church with them, you all confess to the same person.

 

The only point at which doctrine comes in is, as outlined above, you are supposed to adhere to the same rules to be part of the family you were born into.

 

That's not meant in a derogatory way.

"It wasn't lies. It was just... bull****"."

             -Elwood Blues

 

tarna's dead; processing... complete. Disappointed by Universe. RIP Hades/Sand/etc. Here's hoping your next alt has a harp.

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I just came back from my local farmers market. There was the scariest looking nun in her full habit hawking bread from her convent. She had this death stare if you happened to look her way and not approach her stall. Brought me back to my worst nightmare as a six year old catholic schooler.

 

 

In Catholic school as vicious as Roman rule

I got my knuckles bruised by a lady in black

And I held my tongue as she told me,

"Son, fear is the heart of love."

So I never went back

"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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Not a believer myself, but while in Vienna i stepped in during mass to Peterskirche and it was really beautiful with a choir singing something in latin, but also in terms of architecture. It was less bombastic compared the Stephanskirche and Karlskirche. So in a way, atleast i can understand why such serene places offer a sanctuary for the spiritually inclined. 

 

 

 

That is as much help that i can give you :p 

"Some men see things as they are and say why?"
"I dream things that never were and say why not?"
- George Bernard Shaw

"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."
- Friedrich Nietzsche

 

"The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it."

- Some guy 

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I went to mass at Westminster Cathedral recently. It isn't as purdy as Saint Peter's by the look of it, but I loved the sense of scale (it's a big barrel-vaulted place) and the nooks and crannies off the nave (confessionals, crypts and the like).

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I think of lot of the different responses you'll get from Catholics has something to do with the church they grew up attending or currently attend.  While no longer practicing, I was raised Catholic, and the church we primarily went to seemed primarily concerned with money and expanding/improving the already pretty nice facilities.  We, admittedly, lived in one of the more affluent suburbs in the area, despite being solidly middle-class.  The priests weren't particularly friendly, the congregation was huge, and the whole thing felt very sterile and impersonal.

 

Other churches we occasionally attended (primarily to avoid our main church's yearly fund-raising festival, which caused havoc with parking and traffic) felt much more homey and caring.  They tended to be smaller churches physically, as well as in terms of size of congregation, and the priests seemed much more caring.  The few times I've attended non-Catholic churches have felt very similar, making me think it was possibly a peculiarity of the church we primarily attended.  It's entirely possible that had I grown up in one of those smaller churches that I would still be a practicing Catholic, instead of occasionally wondering if I could get myself excommunicated because I think it would be kind of amusing.

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Differences indeed.

 

"Pope Francis has suffered a setback as proposals for wider acceptance of gay people failed to win a two-thirds majority at a Catholic Church synod."

 

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-29677779

 

Pope Francis received over 1/2 of the votes but not the 2/3 required for approval.

"Things are funny...are comedic, because they mix the real with the absurd." - Buzz Aldrin.

"P-O-T-A-T-O-E" - Dan Quayle

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