Combat XP - What Just Happened..?

[Stun]

I totally understand that they're different games, yet their XP system is not type-bound. It can infact be used pretty much every single game, heck even a RTS, or a racinggame, anything really! So I don't quite seem to see the argument "you want it to be like Deus Ex. It wont be, it will be like IE" not understanding I'm not even talking about Deus Ex, just it's experience granting system... and yes, that it would work perfectly fine on an IE-title.

No, you can't separate the game type from the XP method. The IE games give XP for kills because combat in the IE games is far for dynamic and involved. You have a dozen or more character classes that are defined by how they get the job done in combat, whether it be via spells, or melee, or archery, or back-stabbing, or party-based strategy etc. There's role playing IN the combat of those games, and thus it had to be rewarded. And that's why citing shooters like Deus Ex simply doesn't work. The entire design philosophy behind those two types of games is drastically different. XP systems are NOT one size fits all.

 

In fact, I'd argue that attempting to fit the kill XP square peg into the round RPG hole can taint even the greatest RPGs. Take Planescape Torment, for example. Black Isle decided to use the same XP system for that game that they used for Icewind dale. And it was a glaring flaw. Kill XP hurt PS:T. It didn't need it, and all that including it accomplished WAS to promote grinding in a game that wasn't at all designed to focus on combat.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Stun

[Captain Shrek]

 

I totally understand that they're different games, yet their XP system is not type-bound. It can infact be used pretty much every single game, heck even a RTS, or a racinggame, anything really! So I don't quite seem to see the argument "you want it to be like Deus Ex. It wont be, it will be like IE" not understanding I'm not even talking about Deus Ex, just it's experience granting system... and yes, that it would work perfectly fine on an IE-title.

No, you can't separate the game type from the XP method. The IE games give XP for kills because combat in the IE games is far for dynamic and involved. You have a dozen or more character classes that are defined by how they get the job done in combat, whether it be via spells, or melee, or archery, or back-stabbing, or party-based strategy etc. There's role playing IN the combat of those games, and thus it had to be rewarded. And that's why citing shooters like Deus Ex simply doesn't work. The entire design philosophy behind those two types of games is drastically different. XP systems are NOT one size fits all.

 

In fact, I'd argue that attempting to fit the kill XP square peg into the round RPG hole can taint even the greatest RPGs. Take Planescape Torment, for example. Black Isle decided to use the same XP system for that game that they used for Icewind dale. And it was a glaring flaw. Kill XP hurt PS:T. It didn't need it, and all that including it accomplished WAS to promote grinding in a game that wasn't at all designed to focus on combat.

 

 

Totally this. In fact there is not much "out of combat" stuff beyond what rogues do.

[constantine]

Really, what happens when you don't do quests (maybe because you're the kind of adventurer that doesn't give a dime bout other people's troubles) and you just explore the world's most dangerous, monster-infested places.

 

 

You're gonna be seriously under-leveled ? Isn't this unfair ?

Edited November 7, 2014 by constantine

[wanderon]

Really, what happens when you don't do quests (maybe because you're the kind of adventurer that doesn't give a dime bout other people's troubles) and you just explore the world's most dangerous, monster-infested places.

 

 

You're gonna be seriously under-leveled ? Isn't this unfair ?

 

Unfair? What if I want to just sit at the inn and drink beer because thats the kind of adventurer I am - I will be seriously under-leveled - is that fair? 

[Cantousent]

 

Really, what happens when you don't do quests (maybe because you're the kind of adventurer that doesn't give a dime bout other people's troubles) and you just explore the world's most dangerous, monster-infested places.

 

 

You're gonna be seriously under-leveled ? Isn't this unfair ?

 

Unfair? What if I want to just sit at the inn and drink beer because thats the kind of adventurer I am - I will be seriously under-leveled - is that fair? 

 

Seriously, I should look up the thread from way the hell back where the guy insists that he should be able to sit at the bar all day as part of his RP.  We were suggesting a barmaid class where you got XP for cleaning glasses and serving ale.  lol   Come to think of it, that might have been on the old interplay boards.  Damn, good times!

[Stun]

 

Really, what happens when you don't do quests (maybe because you're the kind of adventurer that doesn't give a dime bout other people's troubles) and you just explore the world's most dangerous, monster-infested places.

 

 

You're gonna be seriously under-leveled ? Isn't this unfair ?

 

Unfair? What if I want to just sit at the inn and drink beer because thats the kind of adventurer I am - I will be seriously under-leveled - is that fair? 

 

It's completely fair, since any game that lets you sit at the bar and drink - day in and day out - will never place your character in danger for doing so. That is to say, a level 1 adventurer who wishes only to sit at a bar and drink, does not NEED to gain levels. His continued survival is guaranteed.

 

The same cannot be said for combat or questing.

[wanderon]

 

 

Really, what happens when you don't do quests (maybe because you're the kind of adventurer that doesn't give a dime bout other people's troubles) and you just explore the world's most dangerous, monster-infested places.

 

 

You're gonna be seriously under-leveled ? Isn't this unfair ?

 

Unfair? What if I want to just sit at the inn and drink beer because thats the kind of adventurer I am - I will be seriously under-leveled - is that fair? 

 

Seriously, I should look up the thread from way the hell back where the guy insists that he should be able to sit at the bar all day as part of his RP.  We were suggesting a barmaid class where you got XP for cleaning glasses and serving ale.  lol   Come to think of it, that might have been on the old interplay boards.  Damn, good times!

 

 

It's a better alternative when there are romances available that must pass the beer check!

 

Agreed - interplay boards = good times 

[wanderon]

 

 

Really, what happens when you don't do quests (maybe because you're the kind of adventurer that doesn't give a dime bout other people's troubles) and you just explore the world's most dangerous, monster-infested places.

 

 

You're gonna be seriously under-leveled ? Isn't this unfair ?

 

Unfair? What if I want to just sit at the inn and drink beer because thats the kind of adventurer I am - I will be seriously under-leveled - is that fair? 

 

It's completely fair, since any game that lets you sit at the bar and drink - day in and day out - will never place your character in danger for doing so. That is to say, a level 1 adventurer who wishes only to sit at a bar and drink, does not NEED to gain levels. His continued survival is guaranteed.

 

The same cannot be said for combat or questing.

 

 

Not necessarily so - if it is to be an alternative then the possibility of alcohol or food poisoning , falling off unsteady barstools, engaging in risky sex, the threat of bar room brawls, and other such pitfalls must all be accounted for!

[Namutree]

 

 

 

Really, what happens when you don't do quests (maybe because you're the kind of adventurer that doesn't give a dime bout other people's troubles) and you just explore the world's most dangerous, monster-infested places.

 

 

You're gonna be seriously under-leveled ? Isn't this unfair ?

 

Unfair? What if I want to just sit at the inn and drink beer because thats the kind of adventurer I am - I will be seriously under-leveled - is that fair? 

 

It's completely fair, since any game that lets you sit at the bar and drink - day in and day out - will never place your character in danger for doing so. That is to say, a level 1 adventurer who wishes only to sit at a bar and drink, does not NEED to gain levels. His continued survival is guaranteed.

 

The same cannot be said for combat or questing.

 

 

Not necessarily so - if it is to be an alternative then the possibility of alcohol or food poisoning , falling off unsteady barstools, engaging in risky sex, the threat of bar room brawls, and other such pitfalls must all be accounted for!

 

Food/Alcohol poisoning probably won't be in the game. Nor will players be falling off bar stools. Engaging in risky sex also won't be in the game. Bar room brawls; if in the game should give xp. So... Yeah, no xp for drinking in a bar.

[Stun]

Not necessarily so - if it is to be an alternative then the possibility of alcohol or food poisoning , falling off unsteady barstools

These activities would be governed by your attributes (Constitution; Dexterity) not your level. If a High level is required to avoid falling off a bar stool and dying, then such a game has far bigger design problems than just its XP system lol

 

engaging in risky sex

At the bar? We were discussing the 'unfairness" of not being rewarded XP for roleplaying someone who just wants to sit and drink. Not for someone who wants to engage in sex.

 

the threat of bar room brawls

That would be combat, and thus be rewarded with kill XP.

[wanderon]

Sorry - forgot the sarcasm tags again... my bad

[Seari]