Backer Beta Build 301 is Live

[Sensuki]

I don't see a single stat that I'd want to take, for any type of character really. Well done. I particularly like the idea of increasing attack range from perception.

Except that it's terrible for Barbarians, Fighters and Monks. Which is failing the stated design goals.

[Sensuki]

Happy to see some of Matt and Sensuki's ideas were adopted!

They weren't actually. No unique ones anyway.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Sensuki

[lightblade75]

OK, this seems to be a big list of fixed bugs and improvements! Let's see how things keep going... Thanks for this new build! Seems to be a lot of work in it ...

[baddrguy]

I hope the game would finally begin to run on my laptop ;__;

[Endrosz]

Dammit, would someone bother to test the new, more complex stealth system, instead of fixating on attributes?

 

Thanks.

[PrimeHydra]

Excited to try the new build! Making stealth into a proper game system gives us multiple meaningful solutions to combat problems. Keep up the awesome work!

[Marceror]

 

I don't see a single stat that I'd want to take, for any type of character really. Well done. I particularly like the idea of increasing attack range from perception.

Except that it's terrible for Barbarians, Fighters and Monks. Which is failing the stated design goals.

 

Deflection seems like a pretty important stat for frontliners. The higher their deflection the less likely they'll get hit, and the more staying power they'll have, in theory at least.

 

 

 

Intellect: AoE Size and Deflection

 

Particularly for barbarians, the AoE size seems pretty important, since most of their attacks are AoEs.

 

Might not be a stat that I max out, but don't think I'd dump it to 3 by any stretch.

 

 

Edited September 26, 2014 by Marceror

[Marceror]

 

Happy to see some of Matt and Sensuki's ideas were adopted!

They weren't actually. No unique ones anyway.

 

The increased attack speed on Dex was direct from your paper -- even though Josh claimed to have the same revelation on the same day you shared it.

 

Adding deflection as a stat that can be increased by attributes, even if it ended up with attached to a different attribute (Int rather than Resolve) is something that I think you guys should get credit for.

[AlperTheCaglar]

I think penalization for a given stat needs to begin below 9

 

Since the attribute system is an improved version of AD&D, numerical amounts matter. If 18 is the human max for a given statistic, 9 should be the average. Every increase above 9 can give %2 bonus to a maximum of %18. 19 and 20 the rare "natural" peaks give 20% and 22%.

 

OR

 

If you are keen on keeping the 10 as the average stat, then the percentages need to be increased a little bit I think.

 

The distinction between AD&D str 18 and 17 wasn't supposed to be just 2%. I know many people might say "this isn't AD&D"... but the simple truth is, its inspired by AD&D philosophy-- a system where numerics provides a great foundation for good roleplay.

Edited September 26, 2014 by AlperTheCaglar

[Marceror]

I think penalization for a given stat needs to begin below 9

 

Since the attribute system is an improved version of AD&D, numerical amounts matter. If 18 is the human max for a given statistic, 9 should be the average. Every increase above 9 can give %2 bonus to a maximum of %18. 19 and 20 the rare "natural" peaks give 20% and 22%.

 

OR

 

If you are keen on keeping the 10 as the average stat, then the percentages need to be increased a little bit I think.

 

The distinction between AD&D str 18 and 17 wasn't supposed to be just 2%. I know many people might say "this isn't AD&D"... but the simple truth is, its inspired by AD&D philosophy-- a system where numerics provides a great foundation for good roleplay.

The penalization is really just cosmetic. All they did was shift were zero was over the previous system. It's still truly just an increasing bonus level from attribute value 3 on up.

[Malignacious]

Bad sign; no mention at all of fixing the rottenness of the core game: everything being out of sync, poor animations, no animations, rigidness of combat, etc., etc.

 

They didn't even deign to post a single response about this on the main thread.

[Marceror]

Bad sign; no mention at all of fixing the rottenness of the core game: everything being out of sync, poor animations, no animations, rigidness of combat, etc., etc.

 

They didn't even deign to post a single response about this on the main thread.

They totally owe your hyperbole ridden thread a detailed response. I'm sure they've got a team of people working on that right now!

[Sensuki]

Adding deflection as a stat that can be increased by attributes, even if it ended up with attached to a different attribute (Int rather than Resolve) is something that I think you guys should get credit for.

I don't think so, they changed their mind due to feedback from the forums, not just us.

[Elerond]

I think penalization for a given stat needs to begin below 9

 

Since the attribute system is an improved version of AD&D, numerical amounts matter. If 18 is the human max for a given statistic, 9 should be the average. Every increase above 9 can give %2 bonus to a maximum of %18. 19 and 20 the rare "natural" peaks give 20% and 22%.

 

OR

 

If you are keen on keeping the 10 as the average stat, then the percentages need to be increased a little bit I think.

 

The distinction between AD&D str 18 and 17 wasn't supposed to be just 2%. I know many people might say "this isn't AD&D"... but the simple truth is, its inspired by AD&D philosophy-- a system where numerics provides a great foundation for good roleplay.

 

I would point out that from mathematical point of view it don't matter where that line between plus and minus goes as there is still same number of points that change effect by 2%.

 

So difference between attribute value 1 and and 18 is same from mechanical point of view regardless how that information is represented to player.

 

And this isn't AD&D even if some of it's aspect has gotten their inspiration from AD&D, but I would point out that AD&D isn't only source of inspiration that game uses and that game mechanics should serve mainly game that they are in, even if that means that it breaks or goes against some preconceptions that people have towards this sort of game, as it is much more important that game has ruleset that works than that all of its parts respond to players preconceptions, because players get over their preconceptions after playing game bit, but broken ruleset is much more difficult to fix, of course it probably would be optimal if game could do both, but that is easier to say than do when you create new ruleset that don't have any direct ties to one that is compared, especially when one has to take copyrights and such in account.

[Marceror]

 

Adding deflection as a stat that can be increased by attributes, even if it ended up with attached to a different attribute (Int rather than Resolve) is something that I think you guys should get credit for.

I don't think so, they changed their mind due to feedback from the forums, not just us.

 

Okay, well, you guys still led the way. I think there's at least a minor victory in here. But I appreciate your right not to see it that way.

[Sarky]

Just when I was planning to play Wasteland 2 all weekend. Y U HAET INXILE GUISE? :v

[Marceror]

I'm staying the course. Wasteland 2 it shall continue to be. Especially since they also released a patch today, a mere 7 calendar days after the initial release.

[Lephys]

*Applause*!

 

Thanks for your hard work, Team Eternity! Definitely going to try and play more of this build, even though I've recently been "promoted" to a two-for-one job deal at work (we're suddenly PC technicians AND mainframe operators, but all for the pay of just mainframe operators, 8P).

 

The only remaining qualm I have with the stat system (or, just it's biggest remaining weakness) is, as Sensuki pointed out, that Perception range bonus. Everything else seems to provide at least some potential benefit for pretty much any class/playstyle, but range only applies to ranged attacks, obviously.

 

Not sure what to do about that off the top of my head, though. Since Accuracy is a hard number, it might be better, though, to just have each point of Accuracy increase range by 1% or something. Thus, if you're more Accurate, you can attack effectively at a greater distance. It's not a perfect simulation, but... what STAT is going to increase your raw range with a crossbow anyway? None... so, I accept the abstraction of a range bonus, and just think of it as "effective range."

 

But, yeah, I dunno... Accuracy already benefits both ranged and melee peeps, so maybe that's all Perception needs? But, it feels like the other stats are getting 2 significant effects, and Perception's only getting 1 and 1/2.

[Fiebras]

Thank you for the update! There so many things I want to say about it.

 

 

I don't see a single stat that I'd want to take, for any type of character really. Well done. I particularly like the idea of increasing attack range from perception.

Except that it's terrible for Barbarians, Fighters and Monks. Which is failing the stated design goals.

 

Nope, Perception is ridiculously important for any class that wants to actually hit anything. I would actually argue its better to dump Might in favor of perception.

[Sensuki]

Sure, because Accuracy is pretty good, but it's not as good as Might is on it's own. Range isn't implemented properly yet, and it's a useless combat stat to add into the system.

Edited September 26, 2014 by Sensuki

[antigrav]

Good to see you're working hard on it !

[Fluffle]

Hey Guys,

 

just wanted to ask what happened to the interrupt mechanism.

 

Is it still in or was it removed?

 

It's not tied to an attribute anymore?

[Elerond]

Hey Guys,

 

just wanted to ask what happened to the interrupt mechanism.

 

Is it still in or was it removed?

 

It's not tied to an attribute anymore?

 

Concentration bonus is still in attributes (resolve), but there isn't any more attribute that adds character's change to interrupt, but instead that changes is no wholly determined by weapon, spell or ability that character uses. 

Edited September 26, 2014 by Elerond

[GreyFox]

Sure, because Accuracy is pretty good, but it's not as good as Might is on it's own. Range isn't implemented properly yet, and it's a useless combat stat to add into the system.

 

Exactly...range is now like interrupt was...there is absolutely no reason range should be based on a stat.

 

And now that they have a stat that separates melee and ranged...they may as well separate them for accuracy(and whatever else) too since I could have sworn they were trying to make each stat equal for everything...welp now that's out the window so open season IMO.

 

Barbarians also look like the defacto tank now since Int is clearly better for them than a Fighter...what AoEs do fighters have that benefit them like the Barb? With the way the class is set up Barbs are going to have more health, deflection, and AoE(because no duh you're going Int with him).....and the 6 health multiplier....

yea bye bye Fighter. Seriously they were worried about putting deflection on Dex but it's going to have the same effect as their previous fears, just for different classes. At least putting deflection on Dex would be equal for all melee classes(and all classes in general really).

If the idea was to have any class take any set of stats well this makes Int an always yes for Barbs...and it is much more useful for them combined with deflection than most if not every other melee class.

 

 

Dex and Perception look very underwhelming. What exactly am I getting with action speed and is that shown in game anywhere....

 

Better off cutting Perception and giving Dex accuracy and make Perception a skill like Acrobatics, Stealth, etc.

Edited September 27, 2014 by GreyFox

[GreyFox]

An attribute that just gives speed is....SPEED imo...no real tie to Dex and no one looking at Dex is going to be thinking what it actually gives you in this so another change is in order honestly.

 

If Stamina wasn't intuitive Dex is even less so now.