The Beginning of the End of ISIS?

[Walsingham]

 

It's always weird when I hear people attack academics, as if having an education is some sort of terrible character flaw.

It's because some of our higher learning institutions aren't about expanding people's minds, but indoctrinating them.

 

 

A mind that questions everything without drawing any conclusions is that of a baby.

 

A mind that does not accept it's span is limited and is unwilling to learn from the truth of others is no better than that of a toddler.

[Namutree]

Johnson has made similar denials before, only to admit later that there was something to the reports. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeland-security-says-terrorists-havent-crossed-us-mexico-border/ Of course there's no way to know the full truth unless the government owns up to it, but I don't trust anything they say.

 

Hunter's source says guys caught at the border "might" be ISIS. Hunter goes on tv and tells people that they were ISIS members without a shred of evidence (Irresponsibly). The department of justice says this is all just a rumor. 

 

The only way his claim could be true is:

 

A) Hunter's source is lying about what he told Hunter. 

 

B) The entire government is lying about this whole thing.

 

C) Most unlikely of all; that ISIS is actually crossing the border in order to get into the US.

[Wrath of Dagon]

B) Isn't so unlikely, the government's been lying just about everything. The link I posted wasn't just referring to Hunter (if at all), but to reports from Judicial Watch, which has already uncovered several government cover ups.

 

Edit: Here's another cover up for you, there seems to be one every day: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/11/Army-Refuses-to-Release-Findings-of-Bergdahl-Investigation

Edited October 12, 2014 by Wrath of Dagon

[Namutree]

B) Isn't so unlikely, the government's been lying just about everything. The link I posted wasn't just referring to Hunter (if at all), but to reports from Judicial Watch, which has already uncovered several government cover ups.

 

Edit: Here's another cover up for you, there seems to be one every day: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/11/Army-Refuses-to-Release-Findings-of-Bergdahl-Investigation

They're coming up with excuses for their stupid policy; not denying whole events. Big Difference.

[nipsen]

 

 

 

 

 

 

When people are shooting at you, you tend to do what is necessary, all other things be damned.

Except aiming and hitting your enemy it seems.

 

It was sort of an accident, and it wasn't in battle - but.. I've been shot at by multiple 7.62mm rounds. And I suddenly understood why you essentially never create a battle-plan, even in the most experienced unit, that relies on returning accurate fire when you're suppressed. It's simply not going to happen.

 

Ground battles are messy, and that's that. So all and any military forces train for and expect to hit the enemy in an ambush, or on the offensive, while moving. If that fails.. Well, you don't want there to be anything after the first hit. There's just no good plan that works then. Things get messy. The best you train for in a withdrawal is continuous fire, not accurate fire. ..In a well-defended position, you make sure you can hit first while the enemy has to move, and so on. But even then it's a bad place to be if the bullets start flying, or the enemy doesn't take the hint when they see the nests and keep away. They know where you are, and even a busted ak will hit reasonably close up towards 3-400 meters.

 

But I guess saying that wouldn't make for a great recruitment speech.

 

 

Very interesting post, did you do some sort of military training?

 

Yes. A year, right before Norway effectively disbanded the "standing defense military" doctrine. Was supposed to go to Kosovo afterwards, and it was up to you if you wanted to stay in the unit we were in (50% dropped out before 6 months), so we had a lot of fun really. 

 

Then things started happening in NATO and with "allies" in 2000, and I thought: "why not do something else".

 

 

Johnson has made similar denials before, only to admit later that there was something to the reports. http://www.cbsnews.com/news/homeland-security-says-terrorists-havent-crossed-us-mexico-border/ Of course there's no way to know the full truth unless the government owns up to it, but I don't trust anything they say.

 

Hunter's source says guys caught at the border "might" be ISIS. Hunter goes on tv and tells people that they were ISIS members without a shred of evidence (Irresponsibly). The department of justice says this is all just a rumor. 

 

The only way his claim could be true is:

 

A) Hunter's source is lying about what he told Hunter. 

 

B) The entire government is lying about this whole thing.

 

C) Most unlikely of all; that ISIS is actually crossing the border in order to get into the US.

 

..listen to what they're actually saying, though. They're alleging a specific case, without evidence, and arguing that it /could/ be true. They're not arguing that this happened, and that there is a specific weakness in the fortress they have to plug. They're arguing that it /could/ happen, and that you should be scared to death and scrap the constitution and international law just in case, and give the president the power to go to war at his convenience.

 

It's been the same "argument" since right after Kosovo. "We should not be limited or stalled by small dictators and the business of insignificant sovereign states. So we have effectively removed the "international community" from the equation, we lead through NATO, and conduct wars and commit to making changes on our own terms".

 

Sounds like a brilliant idea, obviously (specially since then military operations are easier to plan for). Until you frame it in the way it actually is taking place: politicians playing with the lives of soliders and civilians for domestic political convenience.

 

And "ISIS" is a story that helps facilitate that policy. ISIS in a sense does exist, of course. But it's an amalgamation of a billion different alliances and groups that have nothing to do with each other. ..other than basically having had enough of random foreign states exploiting their countries, and being sometimes slightly more organised than a random mob with guns.

 

Meanwhile, pushing for measures to counter these .. wide-ranging conspiracies that somehow entertain people on the news. Is something that helps mobilize random people to join up and fight. And that effort dominates some of these countries in much the same way it dominates the US. They don't have a war-industry, but it's common that people just don't have a future, so they go to holy war in some other country instead. It's not a subtle transferral of man-power to less beneficial industry or something like that - it's just a total drain on the development of the countries. Take a trip to Afghanistan for example. Outside a couple of historical towns (similar to the way it is in Syria), there's literally nothing.

 

Twigs and dust, ghosts of former glory. And if there's no war to fight, then what is there? Opium and arid farmland they don't have resources or equipment to grow. Or oil-resources they don't have money to start exploiting.

 

So what better way to remedy that than to play into the narratives that facilitate a grander foreign policy plan, with an outlook that has a way out? Let the Americans blow the top off Tora Bora, train millions of troops to guard a rock - and get money to develop the country -- why not, right?

 

Because it's simply not the case any more that there is another option. Nato exists as an aggressive military alliance now, the UN has no clout in contested areas, and there is no "international community" involved in the areas that have military activity. The guys who want something else out of the future than war - have nothing else to do. There's no alternative they can find.

 

And presto - the allies we have in the region invent things like ISIS to further involve "the west". "Help us train police and farm the countryside - and we'll get rid of the Boogeyman (and those pesky rebels we don't like) for you!".

 

Oh, and by the way - absolutely none of this has of course happened before. Either in Nicaragua, Vietnam, Angola, Libya, Iraq or Syria. These were all completely different situations.

[obyknven]

Syrian army: fighting ISIS before it was cool

[Wrath of Dagon]

 

B) Isn't so unlikely, the government's been lying just about everything. The link I posted wasn't just referring to Hunter (if at all), but to reports from Judicial Watch, which has already uncovered several government cover ups.

 

Edit: Here's another cover up for you, there seems to be one every day: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/11/Army-Refuses-to-Release-Findings-of-Bergdahl-Investigation

They're coming up with excuses for their stupid policy; not denying whole events. Big Difference.

 

The point is that they're concealing information American citizens have the right to know. If they're concealing this, you can't be confident in anything they say.

[Valsuelm]

 

 

B) Isn't so unlikely, the government's been lying just about everything. The link I posted wasn't just referring to Hunter (if at all), but to reports from Judicial Watch, which has already uncovered several government cover ups.

 

Edit: Here's another cover up for you, there seems to be one every day: http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/2014/10/11/Army-Refuses-to-Release-Findings-of-Bergdahl-Investigation

They're coming up with excuses for their stupid policy; not denying whole events. Big Difference.

 

The point is that they're concealing information American citizens have the right to know. If they're concealing this, you can't be confident in anything they say.

 

 

Right?

 

'Oh she's just lying about how many times ****ed the other guy last week, oh and maybe for how long it's been going on or exactly how many other guys there are, but she's not covering it up completely that she's ****ing around on me.

 

Oh, and she's not saying she's going to stop lying either, or even asking my forgiveness. Think I should forgive her?  I do. I don't think she'll lie to me again. Why would she when I'm so loyal? Not my honey bunches of government agency with all her cute little experts. No no no! :)'

 

Some of you guys are willing dupes.

[Namutree]

 

The point is that they're concealing information American citizens have the right to know. If they're concealing this, you can't be confident in anything they say.

 

They're not concealing anything. Excuses are being made. See when people screw up; they like to blame their failures on other things. They don't lie, they project blame. A bad FPS shooter often goes, "Why didn't you guys cover me!? If you were better teammates I'd have done better." No dishonesty is intended; it's just that there is projection going on.

 

The fact that the fools are making excuses for their failures is far different than outright pretending events didn't happen. 

 

Funny that you would go so far as to outright ignore anything the department of homeland security says, but don't seem to have questioned Hunters credibility on this at all.

 

A) Hunter has no evidence.

 

B) Hunter's source says that Hunter misunderstood him.

 

C) The claim that ISIS is crossing the border to get into the US makes no sense. If hunter went on tv and told you that ISIS is harnessing the power of Castle Grey Skull to summon Sauron to destroy the US; would you believe it?  

[Namutree]

 

Some of you guys are willing dupes.

 

Anyone who would believe Hunter's claim which makes no sense, came from a rumor he misunderstood, and hasn't the slightest shred of evidence for is definitely a willing dupe.

[BruceVC]

 

 

Some of you guys are willing dupes.

 

Anyone who would believe Hunter's claim which makes no sense, came from a rumor he misunderstood, and hasn't the slightest shred of evidence for is definitely a willing dupe.

 

 

Haven't you realised by now Namutree, Vals is the only one who knows the truth about how the world really operates. The rest of us just bumble along in a state of blissful benightedness

[Meshugger]

ISIS Group declares itself Pro-Slavery:

 

http://www.slate.com/blogs/the_slatest/2014/10/13/isis_yazidi_slavery_group_s_english_language_publication_defends_practice.html

 

So brave.

[Malcador]

Doesn't really make them look worse.

[BruceVC]

Doesn't really make them look worse.

 

Really? You don't think active  slavery is another appalling decision of ISIS around there implementation  of fundamentalist  Islam 

 

It definitely doesn't endear them in anyway

[Malcador]

So far they've beheaded people, forced people to dig their own graves, raped, involved in child trafficking and generally seem to revel in utter savagery. This really doesn't really lower my opinion of them at this point.

[BruceVC]

So far they've beheaded people, forced people to dig their own graves, raped, involved in child trafficking and generally seem to revel in utter savagery. This really doesn't really lower my opinion of them at this point.

 

Good points, you right. They can't get much lower in my view

[nipsen]

 

So far they've beheaded people, forced people to dig their own graves, raped, involved in child trafficking and generally seem to revel in utter savagery. This really doesn't really lower my opinion of them at this point.

 

Good points, you right. They can't get much lower in my view

 

..well. I guess they have yet to declare their divine right to rule over lesser countries, to change other countries' leadership at will to someone they favor, instate a selective court system that only applies to said lesser people, declare themselves above any law, divine or man-made - as well as then officially embracing this shameless exceptionalism, at the cost of other people's freedom and lives, as a matter of democratically/parliamentary justified policy. Before waging endless wars that have no discernible goal or resolution outside the nation's own collapse.

 

In other words - if they intended to compete with more or less any random historical or current nation (..except Belgium) at their nadir in terms of bigotry, they frankly have a very long way to go.

 

Incidentally - why not get to know someone from Iran, or Syria, or Afghanistan, for example. Get in touch with an ngo or a student organisation of some sort. There used to be a very active community at a university on the West Bank in Gaza - but someone put a stop to that. Then read something like the Shanameh, some Ferdowsi.. Gulistan, whatever. And put that ancient persian tradition aside what's sanctioned by the more current islamic revolution in Iran. Compare that with Egypt's, Afghanistan's, Iraq's and Syria's other widely differing attempts towards post-islamic revolutionary nation-building. 

 

I mean -- you have to understand that all of those nations are thousands of years older than ours. Hell, the Islamic revolution is over a thousand years older than anything resembling the US constitution. And that revolution is still something any random Egyptian or Persian will both see, from their point of view, as a very vain and quick solution to problems.

 

So just imagine for a second how laughable it would be if someone suggested not just to adopt parliamentary reforms into their existing traditions - but to replace them with a completely different doctrine altogether. See, even the ones who actually would want that wouldn't know where to begin. There would be no process they could possibly adopt that would lead there. And again, remember that missionary work by the sword with the Islamic revolution didn't make one nation of the middle east, even while the revolution was a massive triumph. Since then - who have been successful at creating relatively prosperous nations in the middle-east? Military dictatorships supported by east or west.

 

Now imagine those who have known how wars have devastated their communities lately, and how much "international" involvement appeals to them. And imagine trying to convince them that /this time/, you really just want what's best for them.

 

You know, that's how absurd this situation really is.

[Gfted1]

Need more cluster bombs up in there. Maybe a fleet of drone cluster bombs? /drool

[obyknven]

This media hysteria about these fake muslims get bored... Let's add some oil to flame.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tarkhan Batirashvili, of Georgian military intelligence, has become one of the main leaders of ISIS under the assumed name of Abu Omar al-Shishani. Georgia is a close friend of NATO, the USA and Israel.

 

Senator John McCain came to Syria illegally to meet the chiefs of staff of the FSA. According to the photograph then distributed to attest to the meeting, the staff included a certain Abu Youssef, officially sought by the US State Department under the name Abu Du’a, in reality the current Caliph Ibrahim. Thus, the same man was - both and at the same time - a moderate leader in the FSA and an extremist leader in the "Islamic Emirate".

[HoonDing]

Meanwhile Turkey is bombing the PKK in the SE of the country. #NotYourSheild

[Wrath of Dagon]

C) The claim that ISIS is crossing the border to get into the US makes no sense. If hunter went on tv and told you that ISIS is harnessing the power of Castle Grey Skull to summon Sauron to destroy the US; would you believe it?

You keep saying this, OK I'll bite. Why does it not make sense for ISIS to cross the border?

[obyknven]

ISIS Stronk!

[BruceVC]

 

C) The claim that ISIS is crossing the border to get into the US makes no sense. If hunter went on tv and told you that ISIS is harnessing the power of Castle Grey Skull to summon Sauron to destroy the US; would you believe it?

You keep saying this, OK I'll bite. Why does it not make sense for ISIS to cross the border?

 

 

Th

 

 

C) The claim that ISIS is crossing the border to get into the US makes no sense. If hunter went on tv and told you that ISIS is harnessing the power of Castle Grey Skull to summon Sauron to destroy the US; would you believe it?

You keep saying this, OK I'll bite. Why does it not make sense for ISIS to cross the border?

 

 

The main reason this is highly unlikely IMO is that ISIS is a group that is based in Syria and Iraq, they only get people joining them from Western countries. They aren't exporting there members yet because ISIS is actively involved in daily combat in those countries. It would be like saying the Taliban are going to cross the Mexican border into the USA, the Taliban are based in Afghanistan and Pakistan

 

ISIS isn't like Al-Qaeda who has a nebulous and amorphous structure of cells around the world. For ISIS the current objective is to create a caliphate within Iraq and Syria. So they aren't concerned at the moment with directly attacking the USA. They just don't have the logistical structures  to do this

 

This may change if they are able to establish there own caliphate but this isn't going to happen so I really don't think ISIS fighters crossing into the USA is a likely outcome

[Namutree]

 

You keep saying this, OK I'll bite. Why does it not make sense for ISIS to cross the border?

 

Because they could just have their supporters in Kuwait and other countries just fly over to the US. Plus ISIS even having a foothold in Mexico is nonsense. Mexico has almost no Muslims, so it's not a country where ISIS would even have members. Even if it did; they could just fly over to the US. Why cross the border? Seems like a high risk for more effort. 

 

Not to mention ISIS has already made a call to it's western supporters to fly over to the Middle East and join the fight; not sneak into the US where it already has supporters. It's already been established that ISIS's main plans to attack the west involve using western members who can fly back home after they win the ground battles. ISIS will be entering America by air; not ground, and certainly not from Mexico.

 

It would be more likely that ISIS would enter the US from the Canadian border than the Mexican border, but you don't hear hunter talk about building a wall over there; do you? I wonder why that is? My guess, it doesn't fit into the policy he is trying to scare idiots into supporting.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It wouldn't necessarily be easier to get in by air, since US intelligence, or whatever's left of it, is supposed to be watching those kinds of threats. Same with Canada, we have more confidence in their security abilities than in those of Latin American countries.

 

Edit: Here's an Iranian plot for a Mexican drug cartel to assassinate the Saudi ambassador : http://www.cnn.com/2013/05/30/justice/new-york-saudi-assassination-plot/ But of course ISIS would never think to hire a Mexican drug cartel to help them carry out an attack.

Edited October 15, 2014 by Wrath of Dagon