Sensuki's Suggestions #017: Cultural Gear Selection

[Sensuki]

I find that I am choosing a culture mostly based on what starting gear I want, however it is a pain that you get such a limited set of options as a class gear-wise when you start a game.
 
I think Culture should have a couple of subsections where players can choose from a list of common weapons and armor that would be used in that culture.
 
Here is a really terrible mspaint mockup:
 

 
Previous Suggestions:
Navmesh for AoE Targeting
Animations & Model Collision
Inventory Mockup
Dyrford Crossing Area Design
Main HUD Mockup
Beta Version Review v257 bb
Fog of War
Inventory & Item Tooltips
Combat Feedback Comparison - some stuff implemented
Re-wrote CC Class Ability Descriptions
Item Descriptions and Contextual UI Rant
Area Map Functions *IMPLEMENTED*
Main UI Tooltip Stuff *IMPLEMENTED*
Selection Circles and Targeting *Mostly IMPLEMENTED*
Vertical Sync *IMPLEMENTED*

Edited September 10, 2014 by Sensuki

[Ink Blot]

I REALLY like this idea. Kudos.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I'm down with it, particularly if they showed us stats as well.

[Sensuki]

There is also no culture that gives a bonus to Constitution or Perception.

 

I think The White that Wends would be a good fit for Constitution, personally. Since it's bloody cold down there.

[DCParry]

I only use my pollaxe on election day. 

[Falkon Swiftblade]

well one thing's for sure, this may actually be the first rpg you really need to be prepared for once you leave town, that i've played in a really long time! I got the impression from the first footage we saw once we start, we're in the caravan and we can immediately change out the gear from the merchant in the party. I think I like the option of selecting my options from the store based upon it's stat's rather than how I look wielding it. Although, I do appreciate having the opportunity to wield different weapons in character creation.

[Cantousent]

There are two things I'll say that I've read from other members.  If only I could remember them, I would credit them, but I'll honor them anyway by reaffirming what they said.

 

1  This is not QA work you're doing, but actual design work.  Truly a boon for us.  Even if the devs don't take everything you've done lock stock and barrel, at least you've made some arguments that can have a great deal of impact along the line.

 

2  For the love of God, please give us all of these things *before* we assign attributes.  I think assigning attributes should be the last thing we do *after* we've got all the modifiers in place so we know what the grand total of everything will be.

 

Great job, Sen, and I hope that Obsidz recognizes you in some way for the sheer amount of work you do, either by bringing you in for the launch or giving you a 'Gromnir'esque character in the game or something.

[Gromnir]

starting gear concerns us almost not at all... and compared to the stat bonuses? am betting there will be a store somewhere near start o' game, and no doubt we will very quickly be able to afford a wide range o' mundane equipment shortly after starting game.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sensuki]

I have watched the IGN Preview and IGN First Look EX and it may be that not all weapons will be available from Heodan's store at the start. The selection doesn't have to be huge, but it would be nice if you could simply pick between a few sets of clothing/armor and weapons.

[Gromnir]

I have watched the IGN Preview and IGN First Look EX and it may be that not all weapons will be available from Heodan's store at the start. The selection doesn't have to be huge, but it would be nice if you could simply pick between a few sets of clothing/armor and weapons.

you were one o' the "spiritual successor" guys, yes? the stores at start o' bg, iwd and iwd2 also had, as we said, "a wide range o' mundane equipment." nevertheless, purchasable gear at start were hardly a complete menu o' all non-magical gear, and regardless, we typical couldn't afford to outfit our player with the gear we would most like right at the start of the game.

 

what about the spiritual footprints left by the ie giants that have gone before us on this epic PoE journey? should we not show proper deference to the spirit o' the ie series by making sure you start with non-optimal gear? 

 

...

 

that were sarcasm... am knowing that without emotes, some folks don't recognize.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Cantousent]

Gromnir, you are a bastard, but I did laugh out loud.  :Cant's guffawing icon:  I don't agree with everything Sen says, but I don't really mind having a choice of starting gear.  More important to me is to see my starting attributes at the *end* of character creation.  I guess even that might not matter.  It really depends on whether our starting stats are more or less our final stats.  If there will be a lot of movement for stats, it won't matter.  If our starting stats are more or less what we'll have for the whole game, then they are far more important.  Gear will naturally fluctuate, but what about attributes?  That's what I want to know.

[Gromnir]

Gromnir, you are a bastard, but I did laugh out loud.  :Cant's guffawing icon:  I don't agree with everything Sen says, but I don't really mind having a choice of starting gear.  More important to me is to see my starting attributes at the *end* of character creation.  I guess even that might not matter.  It really depends on whether our starting stats are more or less our final stats.  If there will be a lot of movement for stats, it won't matter.  If our starting stats are more or less what we'll have for the whole game, then they are far more important.  Gear will naturally fluctuate, but what about attributes?  That's what I want to know.

 

you can go backwards in character creation... though it were bugged in the previous build. effectively, we could simply click on the attributes tab after choosing culture, and we could then redistribute our +1 wherever the hell we wished. nevertheless, we will agree that accurate point allocation is a genuine concern at the start o' a game, but starting gear is just so... minor. 'course, if we can choose the "pollaxe" at player creation, we would want to eventual upgrade to the famous Gallup Pollaxe... its main quality being that it is half as weighty as advertised.

 

no?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Sensuki]

Hehe - he has me there.

I was more going by the fact that in the KS the devs said you'd be able to pick starting gear but changed it to a store (which is probably easier). Now obviously items such as guns might be too good, but there's a lot of weapons and types of armor in PE as well. Winthrop's Inn had most of the weapons, but not all of the armor (understandable due to AC). I saw quite a few items missing from Heodan's store in the videos I think.

Armor in PE is technically even as there's a 5% IAS penalty for every DT point.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Sensuki

[Messier-31]

[Ashen Rohk]

Great idea, Sen! I do end up choosing the culture as much for the starting weapon/armour as for the + to attribute.

 

Just make sure the sets make sense. Mace/stiletto for instance? Should be mace/shield.

[Sensuki]

Mace and Stiletto can be dual wielded ?

 

They're the only 1H weapons worth using atm because of the -DT property.

 

Hopefully they fix the weapon damage ranges eventually.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Sensuki

[Pray]

I love this idea. It's simple yet adds a lot of immersion and investment into your character.

[archangel979]

I don't think they need to waste time with this. Weapons are going to be changed early into the game anyways. Also there are no weapon proficiencies in PoE and talents that improve accuracy with certain weapons are not available at lvl 1. By lvl 2 you will probably be able to get the exact weapon you want.

[wanderon]

And which current combo of class and culture is supposed to get the Estoc currently I have not yet seen one in the beta? 

[Sensuki]

You can get it, I think its the Fighter / Old Vailia.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Sensuki

[BobbinThreadbare]

I think starting at level 5 in the backer beta makes the starting gear a lot more meaningful than starting at level 1 will be.

 

Still, back in my day, we started with nothing and had to hit the shop up before adventuring.

 

One game that did a cool thing was Arcanum, where there was a shop screen right after character creation.

[Cantousent]

Okay, I think Grom has a point about it not being a big deal.  On the other hand, I don't think it would exactly be hard to implement.  For some of these ideas at this point in development it's just a matter of deciding whether the idea has merit or not and whether the idea can be implemented without screwing up something or creating bugs.  I think Sen's idea would gratify at least some people, not piss anyone off, and there would still be a shop early on for changing out weapons just in case.  The devs might not want to do it because they don't think the payoff is worth the effort for themselves or the player, but if it's easy and won't cause a snafu, why not?  I do know that anything they do, including fixing bugs, runs the risk of causing some crazy unforeseen consequences.  That's why it's a real pain, because inadvertently causing a bug with something that seems simple on its face could actually happen, and then hunting down and fixing that bug without causing other bugs is always a worry.  I just don't see how allowing a menu at character creation for gear could be all that risky.  ...And I don't think the players should be in a position of choosing the starting culture based on the weaponry and armor.  Anyhow, I won't get worked up over it either way in the finished product.  I still think that having the backers get creative and offer suggestions and try to interact with the community is a good thing.  <.<

[Sensuki]

Would just be some extra flavour, flavour is good.

 

Won't be super bummed if it doesn't make it in but it was just an idea anyway.

[Gromnir]

Okay, I think Grom has a point about it not being a big deal.  

there is a vendor in the caravan that your adventuring party starts the game accompanying, yes? am thinking you understate just how "not a big deal." starting gear is. 

 

am getting that role-play value o' a culture might be important to folks. am getting that the +1 attribute point would be significant to many players. starting gear? honestly?

 

the only thing we want changed 'bout cultures is the weird point loss that can take place if you change your culture choice. am assuming that is a bug. am also kinda ambivalent about which attribute the +1 ability is allocated to as you is able to simple click on ability distribution after choosing culture and readjust your points. the +1 attribute is functional not linked to any particular attribute even if it says +1 intellect or +1 dexterity-- racial limits still apply.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited September 11, 2014 by Gromnir

[Doppelschwert]

I'm with gromnir on this one.

 

In particular, I disagree that this choice is about flavour - to the contrary, this is more about power gaming and min/maxing than anything else.

Your starting gear reflects the traditional gear that someone of your craft is wearing in the region you are coming from - that is flavour.

Choosing your own stuff is nice, but it's basically as full of flavor as playing a drow and giving him a good alignment. It's mechanically legit, but it contradicts the usual setting for no reason except being the special player character, and it is not even permanent.

 

In particular, there are way too many combinations of weapons that you could equip in order to display them all in some kind of menu. The number of weapon sets for dual wielding is quadratic in the number of singlehanded weapons alone.

 

Choose your background for role playing purposes and/or the stat boosts if you are min/maxing, but leave the gear up to the shop at the beginning. If you want to be able to equip your characer with everything from the get go, petition for a broader range of wares in the starting shop.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Doppelschwert