Don't complain about battles being too hard

[Linkamus]

Single player games for the last 10+ years have been notoriously too easy, and I am really looking forward to PoE providing a serious challenge. That said, if you find a battle is extremely difficult relative to other content within the same play-through, then give constructive feedback asking for a specific encounter to be better balanced.

 

There is a big difference between saying "It's too hard! Make it easier!", and "I think the difficulty of certain encounters needs to be better balanced for reasons x,y, and z".

 

You guys will regret it in the end if you keep asking for the game to be made 'easier' (I've seen this request many times throughout this forum). The game should be kept as challenging as possible!

 

Note: this only applies to difficulty settings above the 'easy' setting. IMO easy setting should be for people that just want to enjoy the story and dialogue without having to stress about being tactical in battle.

[Ink Blot]

I don't know, I think the devs can probably understand that most people mean better balance when they complain a battle is 'too hard'. Especially when they provide details as to the issue they feel is paramount in that battle. Those people that don't provide any details are more than likely ignored anyway.

[IndiraLightfoot]

In general for Poe, I second this, but with the obvious requirement: That combat is hard because of the way the encounters and the enemies are designed, and not because the mechanics, and combat feedback, are lacking.

[Namutree]

 

You guys will regret it in the end if you keep asking for the game to be made 'easier' (I've seen this request many times throughout this forum). The game should be kept as challenging as possible!

 

Josh has already stated that poe will be about as challenging as BG2. Right now it is much tougher than that. Josh should live up to what he said, and I think he will.

[archangel979]

I been meaning to say this and this topic is perfect. Don't forget Obsidian said main quest combat will be easier than side quests. So if you force this side quest combat to be easier, main quest is going to be playable with one hand. 

[IndiraLightfoot]

At least we know now that combat in cities will be rock hard...

[ctdavids]

I don't think combat is too hard.  I think combat is too buggy to tell if it's hard.

 

Ideally easy would be easy, hard would be hard, and path of the damned would be, well, damned hard.  And, as much as possible, that difficulty should be consistent across fights and areas.  This is not to say that all fights should be exactly as easy (variety is nice), but that the average difficulty remain fairly constant.  I mention this because one of my issues with CRPGs is that they can start at a point where if you get unlucky you can die (because your characters aren't that well geared, don't have a full party, wolves can 1 shot mages at starting hp, etc.) and by the end you could roll snake eyes and still barely get hurt (because you've got resistance/defence/healing up the wazoo).  I found this, for instance, in Divinity: Original Sin recently where early on I had to think about combat and on the final boss I don't think I even needed to heal.  While it's great to have your characters grow in power, lack of challenge can be boring.

[Captain Shrek]

Except that battles are n't hard. They are a custer****. There is a difference. The AI is crap, the beetles are Usain  Bolting and the AOEs for spells are hampeting instead of helping.

[IndiraLightfoot]

ctdavids: Yeah. That's a classic problem in CRPG. If Josh & Co gets that right, they have done something amazing.

[Starwars]

I don't think combat in the beta is too hard either, though it can certainly be tricky to tell since... well, it's not finished yet. Nor do I think I would feel BG2 was much easier if I were to be dropped into that game without having had any prior experience of the game and ruleset before. PoE beta has some pretty tough encounters (certainly not the worst we will see), and some really easy ones as well. BG2 has some extremely tough encounters (subtract all that experience you have with the game and you'll get rocked a lot of times most likely) and some really easy ones also.

 

EDIT: I should say that I've only played on Normal. And that feels about "right" to me so far.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Starwars

[PrimeJunta]

Wait, who's complaining about the combat being too hard?

[Monte Carlo]

I'm wondering if people are confusing 'too hard' with 'to confusing to manage properly.' Big difference.

 

You can't knock PoEs number of options when it comes to difficulty.

[Sensuki]

Most of the encounters are too easy and not tactically challenging enough.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Sensuki

[Captain Shrek]

I personally feel that combat difficulty should not come from how HP laden/Armored the enemy is, but rather from how encounters are designed combined with how good the AI is to actually use the skills it has and interact with the environment. To be honest I doubt if there is enough effort into designing a good AI in any gaming enterprise so I would generally scratch that option out. The encounter design can definitely be done well though.

 

To give an example of a reasonablely well designed game, one should think of the latest Turn based masterpiece, Blackguards. The game has amazing set pieces where you are strongly encouraged to interact with the environment to combat the odds. It really creates tactically interesting situations although not as often as wold be possible. People developing games should definitely take pointers from there.

[Sensuki]

Yeah some more ranged enemies and enemies with AoE attacks would be nice. Stuff like that.

 

The Great Wolves or whatever could have a stun.

[Monte Carlo]

One of my all-time favourite i.e. game battles is in IWD - the subterranean bridge guarded by drow, spiders and orogs at the bottom of one the later levels. So it's a level 12ish battle, with a number of ways of completing it. When you look at it, it really is quite simple, a piece of open ground with two choke points and some enemy archers. But it's enormous fun and feels epic.

[Linkamus]

Wait, who's complaining about the combat being too hard?

 

I read these forums daily, and I've seen the complaint many times.

 

 

I don't think combat is too hard.  I think combat is too buggy to tell if it's hard.

 

Yes, this is another good point. People shouldn't ask for difficulty nerfs until combat is 99% bug free.

 

 

I personally feel that combat difficulty should not come from how HP laden/Armored the enemy is, but rather from how encounters are designed combined with how good the AI is to actually use the skills it has and interact with the environment. 

 

+1

 

In general for Poe, I second this, but with the obvious requirement: That combat is hard because of the way the encounters and the enemies are designed, and not because the mechanics, and combat feedback, are lacking.

 

+1

 

My original post was supposed to be making a generalization about difficulty. I agree with what you guys are saying. I just cringe every time I see a post that says "It should be easier". That's just the wrong mindset to have.

[prodigydancer]

Single player games for the last 10+ years have been notoriously too easy

Yeah. ME2 on Insanity with imported saves (i.e. you start with crappy weapons vs. max level enemies) was really ....... easy.

 

/facepalm

Edited September 8, 2014 by prodigydancer

[IndiraLightfoot]

Heh, DS3 hardcore mode was one of the hardest difficulties I've ever seen in a CRPG, so with OE behind the wheel, we're going to get difficulty in spades, I'm sure of it!

[Monte Carlo]

I've played these games for many, many years and I can't beat those damn beetles on normal setting.

[Sensuki]

have you watched my videos on how to do it ?

 

I don't even play particularly well in them either since I've now learned a lot more about how good some of the Priest spells are that I haven't been using.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Sensuki

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

I've played these games for many, many years and I can't beat those damn beetles on normal setting.

Bludgeoning weapons, go for the wood beetles, use the cleric spell that suppresses hostile effects. The spiders are worse though, DoT stuff as a whole really needs to be toned down.

[Sensuki]

yeah always kill the Wood Beetles first due to the poison DoT.

[Shadenuat]

I remember beetles being even nastier in IWD where the spit acid into your face, aoe'ing whole group.

These are just like more heavily armored spiders from wyvern forest.

 

Hey Josh, make them also spit acid on release every few rounds nuking everything around them for massive damage.

Edited September 8, 2014 by Shadenuat

[Monte Carlo]

Ah, I had a very dexterous Orlan barbarian with a spear. He got killed very, very quickly.