Scottish Independence?

[Meshugger]

What's the percentage of "undecided?"

[Kroney]

8%

[Hurlshort]

I went over this with my students today. Holy moly, there are some big headaches short term when it comes to going independent.

[HoonDing]

No true Scotsman votes no.

[BruceVC]

I went over this with my students today. Holy moly, there are some big headaches short term when it comes to going independent.

 

I'm interested in what were the key points you explained to your students? A  summary of course. Oh and kudos to  your school for teaching them about this development

[Kroney]

No true Scotsman votes no.

That makes over half the currently decided population of Scotland interlopers and puts the population of Hoondig-defined "true" Scots at a third of the population of London.

 

Just for context, you understand.

[Monte Carlo]

It's not Scottish independence we're talking about here, it's English Liberation. From whiny, entitled, parasitic celts.

[Gromnir]

It's not Scottish independence we're talking about here, it's English Liberation. From whiny, entitled, parasitic celts.

 

so, get rid o' the "whiny, entitled, parasitic celts," would be leaving you with... whiny, entitled, alcoholic celts? well, that ain't fair o' Gromnir. is not as if folks in scottland is markedly less alcoholic. no scottland results in a population o' whiny, entitled, and pathological apologizing celts? better?

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Kroney]

Manly, empire-building, alcoholic Anglo-Saxons, thank you very much. And the Welsh.

[Gorth]

The Anglo Saxons were replaced by the French. Later mixed with immigrants from the days of Empire (Indians, Africans, Scots, Irish etc.). The monarchy is German. I don't think such a thing as an "Englishman" really exists outside of fairytales and romance literature.

[Ashen Rohk]

Manly, empire-building, alcoholic Anglo-Saxons, thank you very much. And the Welsh.

That's a point. If you go, can you take the Welsh with you?

[Gromnir]

The Anglo Saxons were replaced by the French. Later mixed with immigrants from the days of Empire (Indians, Africans, Scots, Irish etc.). The monarchy is German. I don't think such a thing as an "Englishman" really exists outside of fairytales and romance literature.

well, to be fair, most o' those good and god-fearing anglo-saxon englishmen is stew o' a variety o' genetic contributors, and the embarrassing romano-britons weren't wiped out or chased off so much as they were made... family.

 

http://www.oxfordtoday.ox.ac.uk/features/what-makes-british

 

fascinating.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Kroney]

 

 

Manly, empire-building, alcoholic Anglo-Saxons, thank you very much. And the Welsh.

That's a point. If you go, can you take the Welsh with you?

I'd really rather not, quite frankly.

[Kroney]

The Anglo Saxons were replaced by the French. Later mixed with immigrants from the days of Empire (Indians, Africans, Scots, Irish etc.). The monarchy is German. I don't think such a thing as an "Englishman" really exists outside of fairytales and romance literature.

Not far off, though displacement didn't really happen. In fact the English are very nearly as Celtic as everybody else in the British Isles (though don't say that to the Fringe, they've got precious little else to be proud of, bless them). We are all mongrels here, though. I am myself a mix of English, Scottish and Welsh.

[Kroney]

My own opinion is this doesn't go far enough. 

 

I vote for a federal Britain with a number of separate states. Scotland, Wales, NI obvs. Then Northumbria and Wessex plus a separate state for Greater London; the north and south of England have little in common with each other and London's practically a city state to start with. They have their own regional assemblies with a central parliament for Greater Britain concerned with defence, foreign policy and the welfare state. The Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, the Hebrides and the Northern Isles are all distinct entities so they can have their own assemblies, too.

 

Europe's heading that way anyway, might as well get ahead of the game.

 

Kroney for PM!

[Gorth]

My own opinion is this doesn't go far enough. 

 

I vote for a federal Britain with a number of separate states. Scotland, Wales, NI obvs. Then Northumbria and Wessex plus a separate state for Greater London; the north and south of England have little in common with each other and London's practically a city state to start with. They have their own regional assemblies with a central parliament for Greater Britain concerned with defence, foreign policy and the welfare state. The Isle of Man, the Channel Islands, the Hebrides and the Northern Isles are all distinct entities so they can have their own assemblies, too.

 

Europe's heading that way anyway, might as well get ahead of the game.

 

Kroney for PM!

It sort of works that way in Australia. It's effectively made up of a number of City states with a large percentage of the population living in those state capitals.

 

Of course, the people of Cornwall are going to be mortally offended that you left them out

 

Edit: I took a look at Gromnirs link regarding DNA mapping of the People in the UK. Interesting reading

Edited September 18, 2014 by Gorth

[Agiel]

Wonder if the "No" vote wins Firaxis is going to have to patch out the Scottish flag from XCOM.

[Kroney]

A Yes vote might mean they have to patch out the UK flag.

 

I don't even know why Scotland has its own flag in that game. It's not the only game I've noticed that in, either. Wouldn't have minded too much if English and Welsh flags had also been included.

 

 

Of course, the people of Cornwall are going to be mortally offended that you left them out 

Edit: I took a look at Gromnirs link regarding DNA mapping of the People in the UK. Interesting reading 

 

However much they bleat about the Cornish language and St Perran's cross, they're still just a county.

 

Gromnir's link was quite interesting, but didn't really include much that was surprising.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Kroney

[Nonek]

There are various strongholds of one of the two dominant dna types (Briton and Germanic) in the British Isles, for instance Cumbria has quite a high population of Norse (Norwegian) dna, in its mix of Briton and Germanic sources. Anglia and parts of Yorkshire are very heavily Anglo Saxon/Danish, indeed visiting Mrs Nonek's relative in their little village, one is struck by the amount of blue eyed and blond haired natives there are. The Isle of Man has mainly native Briton blood, but with a healthy dash of Norse, which is also reflected in there language. Could Mannannan have been a half Norseman?

 

Unfortunately the two Roman legions, Normanni conquerors and other groups didn't really affect the dna makeup at all, leaving the two dominant dna groups largely untouched. One a Germanic, Frankish and Scandinavian supplanting and interbreeding with the indigenous Britons. You can still see the differing skull shapes, colouring and various genetic cues if you travel the Isles extensively today. Very interesting in my opinion, especially the changes in regional accents, traditions and culture. Interestingly enough one of the only shared cultural elements is the Black Dog, whether it is called Shuck, Shagga, the Barghest, Padfoot or what have you.

 

One thing is sure though Scotland is not so very different in a dna sense from their brethren south of Hadrians, but then again no man is massively different from any other the world over.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Nonek

[obyknven]

There are various strongholds of one of the two dominant dna types (Briton and Germanic) in the British Isles, for instance Cumbria has quite a high population of Norse (Norwegian) dna, in its mix of Briton and Germanic sources. Anglia and parts of Yorkshire are very heavily Anglo Saxon/Danish, indeed visiting Mrs Nonek's relative in their little village, one is struck by the amount of blue eyed and blond haired natives there are. The Isle of Man has mainly native Briton blood, but with a healthy dash of Norse, which is also reflected in there language. Could Mannannan have been a half Norseman?

 

Unfortunately the two Roman legions, Normanni conquerors and other groups didn't really affect the dna makeup at all, leaving the two dominant dna groups largely untouched. One a Germanic, Frankish and Scandinavian supplanting and interbreeding with the indigenous Britons. You can still see the differing skull shapes, colouring and various genetic cues if you travel the Isles extensively today. Very interesting in my opinion, especially the changes in regional accents, traditions and culture. Interestingly enough one of the only shared cultural elements is the Black Dog, whether it is called Shuck, Shagga, the Barghest, Padfoot or what have you.

 

One thing is sure though Scotland is not so very different in a dna sense from their brethren south of Hadrians, but then again no man is massively different from any other the world over.

Nonsence! By newest info All Europeans are mix between Near-Eastern Semites and Finno-Ugric original nhabitants of Europe (blue eyes and blond hairs from them, it's explain why Northeren Europeans looks  more blond).

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v513/n7518/full/nature13673.html

If we talk about UK especially then:

According to genetic origins of people from the British Isles they are not Celtic, Saxon, Normans, or Viking.

 

It turns out the Celtic, Saxon, Viking and Norman genetic contributions to British isles, are very small, and did not have significant effect on the ethnic makeup of the population as is overplayed in English history books.

 

Which explains why there is little resemblance with Scandinavian and central/eastern Europeans. The english have more in common with other semitic populations in spain and North Africa, hence why majority look dark and swarthy.

 

Moar in books "Saxons, Vikings and Celts: The Genetic Roots of Britain and Ireland" Bryan Sykes,

 

and the "The Origins of the British, revised in 2007" Stephen Oppenheimer.

 

P.S. And Norse Dna make me lol.

[Monte Carlo]

but then again no man is massively different from any other the world over.

 

Apart from The French.

[Nonek]

 

The english have more in common with other semitic populations in spain and North Africa, hence why majority look dark and swarthy.

 

 

I'm sorry old chap but i've travelled all over our sceptered isle and even the native Britons who seem to share some dna with the Basques are not swarthy, you do find in Scotland, Wales and Ireland dark haired and eyed individuals but they're as pale as all native islanders. Us native English are usually fair haired (usually brown) and eyed, come visit and see old boy.

 

Of course there are modern orange people, but they're dyed and made up to be that way.

Edited September 18, 2014 by Nonek

[Kroney]

You know, I'm beginning to think that obyknven is a bit of a rum one.

[HoonDing]

Please, more armchair anthropology.

[Nonek]

I agree that it's farcical focusing on race, except for research in the field, we are after all only a few percent away from literally being bananas.