What can't a Druid do?

[swordofthesith]

Seriously.

 

This class rocks hard. Great ST powers, great AoE powers, great Curses & Buffs. It doesn't feel overpowered either, just well designed! Anyone else out there have some experience with a Druid in the Beta care to share their impressions? 

[Sensuki]

Ciphers, Chanters and Druids are the three strongest classes atm by a considerable amount.

[Ganrich]

Ciphers, Chanters and Druids are the three strongest classes atm by a considerable amount.

 

Yup, Ciphers have some devastating abilities and have enough focus at the start of combat to use 1 or 2.  Soul Ignition is just broken, and basically is basically a finger of death on whoever you target.  That is exacerbated by the fact that you can cast it continuously with the speed at which Focus is gained.  They gain focus way too fast IMHO, but that is based on the power of their spells.  They have a nice variety of spells, but are limited by selected specific ones as they level (Like a Bard or Sorc in the 3rd edition DnD).

 

Chanters gain their resource much more slowly, but most of their invocations are pretty devastating.  Some invocations have HUGE AoE, and do very powerful things.  If you mix your phrases accordingly then you are a huge boon to the party just based on being present.  Their summons, particularly the skeletons, last faaaar too long as well.  They are also limited by what phrases and invocations they have by selection at level up just like the Cipher. 

 

Druids have a slew of offensive spells, they don't select specific ones as they level, nor are they limited by something like the Grimoire.  They have access to their entire spell list at all times, and can shape change and wade into melee when need be.  IMHO they are the most versatile class in the beta at present.  They aren't the best at anything but they are more powerful than a Jack-of-all-Trades class ought to be.

 

These 3 are the classes I am most interested in playing at launch (the chanter being my first) and I can easily say they all need some adjustments. 

 

With Druids, I think Wildstrike should give you access to all the spells that use that damage type and any other spells you must select in some limited fashion.  I would expect the druid to have access to a few more spells than a wizard with a single Grimoire, but not their entire spell list.  Also, the Damage type of the ShapeShift form should be very transparent so that you can align your Wildstrike selection and WildForm to be more ShapeShift focused. 

Edited September 3, 2014 by Ganrich

[Sensuki]

This is one area the Monk falls down, as if he's not aggro'd at the very beginning of the fight, he's essentially an anchor until someone starts hitting him.

[Seari]

Replace a priest.

[Monte Carlo]

My Orlan druid (who looks really cool) turned into a stag, then a strange noise happened and he started floating around a room in an inn like an ice-skater. Then he died.

 

Please patch, come quickly.

[PrimeJunta]

Re ciphers, I'd actually like them to gain Focus a bit faster, but have the starting pool lower. It feels cheesy to be able to open up with the big guns. It'd be more interesting if you only had some of the lower-level abilities at the start of the encounter, and had to work your way up to the higher-level ones. (Which do need nerfing, yes, especially SI but also the durations on some of the others.)

 

Re monks, at least I didn't find it difficult to get them aggro'ed. Just stay in the front. Bit of a one-trick pony, but a fairly effective trick.

[Ganrich]

Replace a priest.

 

Priests aren't really OP though.  They are necessary because they are the only class that have a large amount of heals that can target party members.  I would easily say that another class needs to be able to heal, but in a different way.  Perhaps Paladins should have an aura HoT ability, or give the Druids a few more healing abilities.  A class being necessary doesn't make it OP.  It just means that its role is required, and perhaps another class should also be capable of that role to a different degree. 

 

Paladins and Druids should be able to heal others much more than they can presently to take necessity of a Priest in the party composition.  However, if given too much then that begs the question "would you bring a Priest?"  If you need the buffs then yes, but if you have a Pally/Druid and a Chanter then maybe not.  Things are out of whack that is for sure. 

[Sensuki]

Druids do have some healing spells, there's one called Moonwell, but I'm not sure what level you get it at.

[swordofthesith]

This is one area the Monk falls down, as if he's not aggro'd at the very beginning of the fight, he's essentially an anchor until someone starts hitting him.

 

Yeah. I've been hearing that about Monks. I plan on testing out the Monk class myself tomorrow. And MAN the Druid's 2nd level power FIREBRAND! That blade makes Cloud's two hander from FF7 look silly. 

 

Edited September 3, 2014 by swordofthesith

[Seari]

 

Replace a priest.

 

Priests aren't really OP though.  They are necessary because they are the only class that have a large amount of heals that can target party members.  I would easily say that another class needs to be able to heal, but in a different way.  Perhaps Paladins should have an aura HoT ability, or give the Druids a few more healing abilities.  A class being necessary doesn't make it OP.  It just means that its role is required, and perhaps another class should also be capable of that role to a different degree. 

 

Paladins and Druids should be able to heal others much more than they can presently to take necessity of a Priest in the party composition.  However, if given too much then that begs the question "would you bring a Priest?"  If you need the buffs then yes, but if you have a Pally/Druid and a Chanter then maybe not.  Things are out of whack that is for sure. 

 

Paladins aren't fkin healers. Druids need to be a replacement for priests, like the IE games, else party diversity is ****ed on that aspect.

[Ganrich]

Druids do have some healing spells, there's one called Moonwell, but I'm not sure what level you get it at.

 

It obviously isn't in spell levels 1-3.  They have a level 3 spell called Nature's Balm that is a heal.  However, that means that up to level 5 you don't have any healing as a druid.  I am assuming that Moonwell comes later since I don't see it in the spell list (just made a quick Druid to check).

[Sensuki]

It's on the wiki - Josh Sawyer had mentioned it in a post somewhere.

[Ganrich]

 

 

Replace a priest.

 

Priests aren't really OP though.  They are necessary because they are the only class that have a large amount of heals that can target party members.  I would easily say that another class needs to be able to heal, but in a different way.  Perhaps Paladins should have an aura HoT ability, or give the Druids a few more healing abilities.  A class being necessary doesn't make it OP.  It just means that its role is required, and perhaps another class should also be capable of that role to a different degree. 

 

Paladins and Druids should be able to heal others much more than they can presently to take necessity of a Priest in the party composition.  However, if given too much then that begs the question "would you bring a Priest?"  If you need the buffs then yes, but if you have a Pally/Druid and a Chanter then maybe not.  Things are out of whack that is for sure. 

 

Paladins aren't fkin healers. Druids need to be a replacement for priests, like the IE games, else party diversity is ****ed on that aspect.

 

 

Lay on Hands.  I am not saying they need to be turned into pure healers like a Priest, but through Lay on Hands and a possible modal Aura.  Party diversity is already ****ed because the only true healer is the Priest so I don't see your point there.  You are going to have 5 randoms and a Priest in every party with what we have seen in beta.  How would party diversity fair worse if Paladins have more healing than present, and of course Druids as well?  Oh, wait it wouldn't, because that 1 slot that (at present) is devoted to a priest could be taken up by 2 other classes. 

Edited September 3, 2014 by Ganrich

[Karkarov]

Well two things a Druid can't do from my knowledge.

 

1: I have never seen a Druid make a perfectly poached egg, not impressive at all.

 

2: Apparently Druid's cant be official companion characters :D

[PrimeJunta]

I'm with Ganrich. Give the other classes healing abilities. They don't have to be as good as the priest, but they should be a quarter to a half as good.

 

Indispensable+somewhat boring is not an ideal description of a class, but that is currently what the priest is, more or less.

[Seari]

Just make the druid a replacement for priest, albeit with a bit more offensive orientation and make them not as good at healing, but enough that they can replace priests.

 

Leave the paladins the way they are, else they might as well be priests.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

 

Ciphers, Chanters and Druids are the three strongest classes atm by a considerable amount.

 

Yup, Ciphers have some devastating abilities and have enough focus at the start of combat to use 1 or 2.  Soul Ignition is just broken, and basically is basically a finger of death on whoever you target.  That is exacerbated by the fact that you can cast it continuously with the speed at which Focus is gained.  They gain focus way too fast IMHO, but that is based on the power of their spells.  They have a nice variety of spells, but are limited by selected specific ones as they level (Like a Bard or Sorc in the 3rd edition DnD)....

 

I've been experimenting with Ciphers, and I'm enjoying them a great deal. They are working well as the Gish the were obviously intended to be. I do not feel like they are overpowered though. Ciphers spells actually work. Imagine that. Damage spells do effective damage. Spells which blind, paralyze, charm, or otherwise disable actually are effective and incur a duration that is worthwhile. The rate at which they can acquire focus may need tweaking, but I don't think it unbalanced or crazy to actually play a spellcaster who spends a major percentage of their time actually casting spells. After my long foray into figuring out all the nuances of the Wizard class, the Cipher is a breath of fresh air. I imagine this is what the Wizard would have played like had it not had all of its qualities diluted and gifted to other classes.

[Monte Carlo]

Is it just me or are there too many classes?

[Ganrich]

Leave the paladins the way they are, else they might as well be priests.

If you were talking about DnD then I would agree.  However, this isn't DnD, and Paladins aren't holy warriors of a Deity.  They are Soldiers with conviction based on an Order. 

 

Lay on Hands is a melee, single target heal.  A modal aura that heals over time would make the paladin much less active, and allow the paladin to commence in melee or ranged combat.  They only would break the combat rhythm when they need to lay on hands for VERY limited burst healing.  Simultaneously, one player may not even opt into the modal heal, and make a different paladin with a healer behind him (druid or Priest). 

Priests sit back and buff and heal with some occasional debuff/damage.  Best healers in the game because they heal for chunks of stamina. 

 

Druids are offensive with ranged heal over time spells, but no burst healing like the Priest.  However, they have the ability to keep a party up in most situations. 

 

What I am suggesting does, in no way, make a Paladin a Priest.  What it does is give 3 different types of healers that a player could use one of, or opt for 2 in the party makeup.  It increases what the paladin is capable of as a class, and increases party diversity. 

[Karkarov]

Is it just me or are there too many classes?

Honestly I would have preferred fewer classes as well.  The more classes you add the more likely you are to fall victim to class homogenization and one trick pony classes.  With a smaller number of classes you can make them very different from each other and still leave plenty of room for customization within the class.

[swordofthesith]

 

 

Ciphers, Chanters and Druids are the three strongest classes atm by a considerable amount.

 

Yup, Ciphers have some devastating abilities and have enough focus at the start of combat to use 1 or 2.  Soul Ignition is just broken, and basically is basically a finger of death on whoever you target.  That is exacerbated by the fact that you can cast it continuously with the speed at which Focus is gained.  They gain focus way too fast IMHO, but that is based on the power of their spells.  They have a nice variety of spells, but are limited by selected specific ones as they level (Like a Bard or Sorc in the 3rd edition DnD)....

 

I've been experimenting with Ciphers, and I'm enjoying them a great deal. They are working well as the Gish the were obviously intended to be. I do not feel like they are overpowered though. Ciphers spells actually work.

 

Ciphers are the bomb but some of their powers are not working as intended, I believe. Soul Shock for example, is perfectly useless. And then there is Phantom Foes, the in-game description makes it seem as if this power only affects enemies. This is not true, when cast this power affects friends and foes alike, diminishing the utility of the spell. Still, most of their stuns, charms and befuffs seem to be working. Great class, lot's of fun to play. 

Edited September 3, 2014 by swordofthesith

[Ganrich]

 

 

Ciphers, Chanters and Druids are the three strongest classes atm by a considerable amount.

 

Yup, Ciphers have some devastating abilities and have enough focus at the start of combat to use 1 or 2.  Soul Ignition is just broken, and basically is basically a finger of death on whoever you target.  That is exacerbated by the fact that you can cast it continuously with the speed at which Focus is gained.  They gain focus way too fast IMHO, but that is based on the power of their spells.  They have a nice variety of spells, but are limited by selected specific ones as they level (Like a Bard or Sorc in the 3rd edition DnD)....

 

I've been experimenting with Ciphers, and I'm enjoying them a great deal. They are working well as the Gish the were obviously intended to be. I do not feel like they are overpowered though. Ciphers spells actually work. Imagine that. Damage spells do effective damage. Spells which blind, paralyze, charm, or otherwise disable actually are effective and incur a duration that is worthwhile. The rate at which they can acquire focus may need tweaking, but I don't think it unbalanced or crazy to actually play a spellcaster who spends a major percentage of their time actually casting spells. After my long foray into figuring out all the nuances of the Wizard class, the Cipher is a breath of fresh air. I imagine this is what the Wizard would have played like had it not had all of its qualities diluted and gifted to other classes.

 

 

I have only played with the Cipher twice.  So, the example here is Soul Ignition, but there are other spells that have been mentioned up thread that are a bit over the top.  Combat start you have 35 focus at level 5, and there are 3 beetles.  Soul Ignition (costs 20 focus I do believe) beetle 1, and it will either die or be so low that a single hit can kill it from the appropriate damage type.  Fighter has engaged the 2 remaining beetles and you are at 15 focus.  Fire a single shot from a bow at the lowest health remaining beetle, and you have 20 focus.  Soul Ignition that same beetle and you are down to a single beetle.  That will occur pretty often at lower difficulties.  However the damage you can lay down at higher difficulties is still pretty absurd. 

 

I don't disagree with your assessment of the Wizard at the moment, though.  It is in dire need of something to make it more desirable of a class.  They definitely took a lot of the things that made them great and gave them to other classes, and now the wizard is a shell of itself.  AoE is too difficult to land in the current game, and without that they do substandard damage. 

[Seari]

 

Leave the paladins the way they are, else they might as well be priests.

If you were talking about DnD then I would agree.  However, this isn't DnD, and Paladins aren't holy warriors of a Deity.  They are Soldiers with conviction based on an Order. 

 

Lay on Hands is a melee, single target heal.  A modal aura that heals over time would make the paladin much less active, and allow the paladin to commence in melee or ranged combat.  They only would break the combat rhythm when they need to lay on hands for VERY limited burst healing.  Simultaneously, one player may not even opt into the modal heal, and make a different paladin with a healer behind him (druid or Priest). 

Priests sit back and buff and heal with some occasional debuff/damage.  Best healers in the game because they heal for chunks of stamina. 

 

Druids are offensive with ranged heal over time spells, but no burst healing like the Priest.  However, they have the ability to keep a party up in most situations. 

 

What I am suggesting does, in no way, make a Paladin a Priest.  What it does is give 3 different types of healers that a player could use one of, or opt for 2 in the party makeup.  It increases what the paladin is capable of as a class, and increases party diversity. 

 

I like the idea of a regeneration aura, but it would have to be minimal else it would be overpowered.

 

The chanter would be a better candidate if you insist on having 3 healing classes.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Seari

[swordofthesith]

 

 

I have only played with the Cipher twice.  So, the example here is Soul Ignition, but there are other spells that have been mentioned up thread that are a bit over the top.  Combat start you have 35 focus at level 5, and there are 3 beetles.  Soul Ignition (costs 20 focus I do believe) beetle 1, and it will either die or be so low that a single hit can kill it from the appropriate damage type.  Fighter has engaged the 2 remaining beetles and you are at 15 focus.  Fire a single shot from a bow at the lowest health remaining beetle, and you have 20 focus.  Soul Ignition that same beetle and you are down to a single beetle.  That will occur pretty often at lower difficulties.  However the damage you can lay down at higher difficulties is still pretty absurd. 

 

 

I think everyone is aware that Soul Ignition is totally unbalanced currently and is bound to get hit hard by the Nerf bat. And what you're describing above isn't even half of it. You don't ever need to engage in combat with SI since it has an almost unlimited range. You can safely burn down mobs with SI without ever drawing aggro!

Edited September 3, 2014 by swordofthesith