Drama in the indy gaming biz ?

[Longknife]

I've never met anyone who expected others to plaster any remotely objectionable content with trigger warnings. Seriously, nobody I know wants this. (And I'm fairly convinced I know a lot more people who self-identify as feminists than any of you.)

 

Another useful purpose they serve: if you see that someone has included detailed trigger warnings you find absurd at the start of an article, you can close it with good conscience, because you can already know that whatever their point is, you will disagree with it anyways (therefore saving you the time it would've taken to read the thing in its entirety).

 

 

I'm not saying I'm EXPECTING people to post without warnings, nor that I EXPECT others to do so.

 

EXPECTATIONS is exactly my problem with this. Warning or no warning, both are fine. It's when one side starts flipping their lids at the other for not handling something the way they deem "correct." We're innocently joking and mocking the trigger warnings because that's exactly the kind of attitude we've been seeing pop up; by no means do I think anyone in this thread would - for example - lash out at another forum member legitimately and innocently using the warnings. But what we're sick of is seeing these idealists who WILL lash out at those who don't use them.

 

 

This is exactly why, as I said, I consider people like Anita and Silverstring to be harmful to their own cause. I can sense you're annoyed at how I'm more-or-less tossing every feminist or everyone who uses a trigger warning into the exact same category. Make no mistake, you can check my post history quite a ways back and see that's by no means my intent, but unfortunately that little group is THE most outspoken representation of those concepts to gamers, and they've done a jolly little job of treating all gamers like the gaming communities' loudest subset. Now it's got the effect that the loudest feminists are being addressed and lo and behold both sides are unhappy. All we can do is try and realize who is addressing what subset of which group and try to react appropriately, but those loud extremists will still be there. :/

 

 

 

Okay so total side note, I know the conversation got all different while I composed a lengthy, serious and heartfelt post that I ultimately declined to post and threw away, but since when can't comedy be directed at...well anything?

 

 

If only we had put a trigger warning on our comedy... :C

Edited September 4, 2014 by Longknife

[Elerond]

Trigger warnings make you that angry? I welcome them myself. I mean, as alum said it takes about five seconds to write or ignore. I don't require them, but I appreciate them if they are present (when actually needed). I don't see the big deal. I'm not sure why people showing consideration is a cause to get angry.

 

Of course when people are going to start requiring them, then it's a different issue.

 

Some level trigger warnings are now days required in many places for the audiovisual content that is sold publicly, as they are part of the required content rating systems. 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

Real witty there, guys. I hope you realize you're making fun of a convention which exists to protect victims of abuse from having to relive sometimes really traumatic memories at the opportunity cost of taking about half a second of your time to gloss over it if it doesn't concern you.

Okay so total side note, I know the conversation got all different while I composed a lengthy, serious and heartfelt post that I ultimately declined to post and threw away, but since when can't comedy be directed at...well anything?

 

It was clear Meshugger was being (or attempting to be) funny in his post (apologies to his avatar, I guess, if I misread that situation) and that there was a dogpile in the humor. I understand that people feel differently over the importance/lack of same in real trigger warnings, but...

 

 

I find the attitude of mocking a convention born from respect for other people's experiences and a desire to not aggravate the trauma they might've suffered utterly disgusting in its self-centeredness.

 

I'm not taking away anyone's liberty to make tasteless jokes, I'm expressing the fact that I'm finding said jokes tasteless. If it makes anyone question why they value their half-second spent on reading a trigger warning more than the emotional pain of, say, a rape survivor whose experiences are still fresh, that's a bonus, but realistically, I don't expect anyone to glean any sort of mystical enlightenment and vow never to make such jokes ever again because of my post.

[Malcador]

I just don't see it that way. I mean I'm really only talking about those articles linked there. There's lots of hate on all sides, to be sure. But those articles - the Kotaku article basically asks "where is all this hate that we're seeing here coming from?", and they try to find an explanation for that.

Look at it from this perspective and you don't have journalists who snark at their audience anymore. They see lots of people who are full of hate, and these "lots of people" are the ones they want to talk about. Frankly I don't care too much about the semantics if the context is clear (which it is in my opinion).

Tend to ignore anything from Kotaku, so will have to read that. Plenty of articles out there with that hand wavey tone though but I am rather skeptical of what explanation and solution they could come up with. They certainly want to talk about people full of hate on one side in a lot they have read (well or a subset of or a perception of one side, at any rate).

 

This kind of outrage over the words used in an article, which ignores the context, is what people actually kind of hate about the "feminist movement". I certainly don't like it one bit. Yes you can always find justifications for being outraged, but I'm not a fan of taking political correctness to the extreme, no matter what the topic is.

Or to put it in neckbeard terms, "I find it very ironic (yes so so ironic) that the very people who belittle the feminist movement for their supposed censorship of both ideas and words should choose to use the same techniques in their oh so important fight for justice."

Amusing true, just as the other side is fine with their behaviour as well - and not everyone angry at gaming 'press' is a 'neckbeard' necessarily. It's enjoyable watching them all hack at each other, SJWs doxxing people, MRA types being outraged at generalizations.

 

Sadly the outcome will probably be in not much getting destroyed. Maybe Fish will go full on insane and run around Montreal in his underwear screaming or something.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Malcador

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

I've never met anyone who expected others to plaster any remotely objectionable content with trigger warnings. Seriously, nobody I know wants this. (And I'm fairly convinced I know a lot more people who self-identify as feminists than any of you.)

 

Another useful purpose they serve: if you see that someone has included detailed trigger warnings you find absurd at the start of an article, you can close it with good conscience, because you can already know that whatever their point is, you will disagree with it anyways (therefore saving you the time it would've taken to read the thing in its entirety).

 

 

I'm not saying I'm EXPECTING people to post without warnings, nor that I EXPECT others to do so.

 

EXPECTATIONS is exactly my problem with this. Warning or no warning, both are fine. It's when one side starts flipping their lids at the other for not handling something the way they deem "correct." We're innocently joking and mocking the trigger warnings because that's exactly the kind of attitude we've been seeing pop up.

 

 

It's innocence born of ignorance, and while I'm not judging you for it, I thought I might show you guys a different perspective on the issue.

 

I really don't believe one can misuse trigger warnings. As I've said earlier, even trigger warnings I find absurd are useful as a warning for me not to read anything said person writes.

[Longknife]

 

 

I find the attitude of mocking a convention born from respect for other people's experiences and a desire to not aggravate the trauma they might've suffered utterly disgusting in its self-centeredness.

 

I'm not taking away anyone's liberty to make tasteless jokes, I'm expressing the fact that I'm finding said jokes tasteless. If it makes anyone question why they value their half-second spent on reading a trigger warning more than the emotional pain of, say, a rape survivor whose experiences are still fresh, that's a bonus, but realistically, I don't expect anyone to glean any sort of mystical enlightenment and vow never to make such jokes ever again because of my post.

 

 

 

Lrn 2 ****ing comedy, seriously.

 

You're misinterpreting a satirical joke aimed at the overzealous attitude of one group of feminists for a blatant attack on a message shown as a sign of respect. If you're incapable of distinguishing  "show this message as a sign of respect when applicable please" from "show this message as a sign of respect at all times or you are heartless scum that's the source of all problems in society and I hope you die," then I have no idea what to tell you.

 

Extremists can **** up anything. ANYTHING. FFS the teachings of Jesus Christ are largely about respect, and this may come as a surprise to you, but those very teachings are at the heart of THOUSANDS of deaths simply because some people perverted them into "ACCEPT THE WORD OF JESUS OR I'LL KILL YOU." It can happen anywhere. "ACCEPT GHANDI'S MESSAGE OF NON-VIOLENCE PEACE OR I'LL KILL YOU." If you don't see how we're focused on one group that IS misusing your respectful message, then I'm sorry but I find that incredibly short-sighted of you.

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

I find the attitude of mocking a convention born from respect for other people's experiences and a desire to not aggravate the trauma they might've suffered utterly disgusting in its self-centeredness.

 

I'm not taking away anyone's liberty to make tasteless jokes, I'm expressing the fact that I'm finding said jokes tasteless. If it makes anyone question why they value their half-second spent on reading a trigger warning more than the emotional pain of, say, a rape survivor whose experiences are still fresh, that's a bonus, but realistically, I don't expect anyone to glean any sort of mystical enlightenment and vow never to make such jokes ever again because of my post.

 

 

 

Lrn 2 ****ing comedy, seriously.

 

You're misinterpreting a satirical joke aimed at the overzealous attitude of one group of feminists for a blatant attack on a message shown as a sign of respect. If you're incapable of distinguishing  "show this message as a sign of respect when applicable please" from "show this message as a sign of respect at all times or you are heartless scum that's the source of all problems in society and I hope you die,"

 

I'm not misinterpreting anything as an attack, I'm expressing my opinion that said jokes are in bad taste.

 

Then again, me being a bloke who hasn't ever met the attitude you describe in your post, and finds even completely ridiculous trigger warnings useful (even if only to determine whose opinion to disregard) probably has a lot to do with that. And I think we should leave the issue at that. Having different experiences and interpreting things differently based on that is cool.

[Longknife]

ALL IM GUNNA SAY

 

And don't take this super srs cause I wanna post something light-hearted before letting this go.

 

 

There is such a thing as being TOO sensitive and considerate:

 

<snip>

Edited September 5, 2014 by Gorth
That thing about uncensored language in the screens shown on the forums...

[pseudonymous]

You're misinterpreting a satirical joke aimed at the overzealous attitude of one group of feminists for a blatant attack on a message shown as a sign of respect.

 

 

The problem with that is that the people in question are not feminists.  Feminism, as defined by Merriam-Webster, is the belief that men and women should have equal rights and opportunities.   Laudable and worthy goals, however, in the shamelessly self-promoting, narcissistic messages of the people in question those goals cannot be found.

 

These people are doing more harm than good by putting off others that would agree with most of what they say.  

 

Disclaimer: I have a **** and am therefore a misogynistic rapist whose views are clearly shaped by, and supportive of, the patriarchy.

[Orogun01]

Am I on Tumblr right now?

[Bryy]

 

Can someone in short explain me what is going on? I am quite lost

• A guy broke up with his girlfriend and posted the "why" to a website with screencaps of texts and tweets.
• Girlfriend is a game developer who (according to the posted screenies) admitted to a relationship with a game journalist who wrote positively about her game while still in a relationship with guy.
• Internet explodes.

At least that's what I've gotten out of it.

 

A female who dared to make video games did something that out of context can be molded to fit the pre-conceived notions of what Evil Females Do.

 

Phil Fish then got angry.

 

So therefore, we know everything.

[kirottu]

http://j-k-degoya.tumblr.com/post/96600027121/musings-on-notyourshield-a-last-word-on-zoe-why

 

Different kind of feminist take on the current drama.

 

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/-NotYourShield-Hashtag-Shows-Multi-Cultural-Support-GamerGate-67119.html

 

News article siding with gamers.

[Volourn]

I had a tear in my eye because of that one video. MANLY tear that is.

[Amentep]

I find the attitude of mocking a convention born from respect for other people's experiences and a desire to not aggravate the trauma they might've suffered utterly disgusting in its self-centeredness.

 

I'm not taking away anyone's liberty to make tasteless jokes, I'm expressing the fact that I'm finding said jokes tasteless. If it makes anyone question why they value their half-second spent on reading a trigger warning more than the emotional pain of, say, a rape survivor whose experiences are still fresh, that's a bonus, but realistically, I don't expect anyone to glean any sort of mystical enlightenment and vow never to make such jokes ever again because of my post.

I'm not saying that you're saying we can't make a joke, but I'm curious as to why mocking the convention seems to mean (if I'm reading you correctly) that we either wouldn't care about the emotional pain of a rape survivor or that we wouldn't even be willing to use trigger warnings in posts given the proper reason and context?

[namelesshero]

 

On the Twitter front, some lady named Jenn Frank got "chased out" by trolls or something, Burch and Walker so far are in a tizzy. This is getting funnier by the day

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's SO funny that *exclusively* women are being driven out of an indursty they have worked for years in, due to constant online mysogynistic harassment.

But yeah, it's totally about journalistic ethics guys!1!1!

[Meshugger]

 

 

On the Twitter front, some lady named Jenn Frank got "chased out" by trolls or something, Burch and Walker so far are in a tizzy. This is getting funnier by the day

 

 

 

 

Yeah, it's SO funny that *exclusively* women are being driven out of an indursty they have worked for years in, due to constant online mysogynistic harassment.

But yeah, it's totally about journalistic ethics guys!1!1!

 

 

Esteemed gentlemen, it is my please to inform you that we have stricken another to that pathetic rebel alliance. The patriarchy is now one more step to total and utter domination. Now lets undress and jump the man-pile, boys! ...**** what is this? someone is on to us? Goodness gracious, what are we gonna do?!!!

[namelesshero]

u r not funny brah

[Malcador]

Yeah, it's SO funny that *exclusively* women are being driven out of an indursty they have worked for years in, due to constant online mysogynistic harassment.

But yeah, it's totally about journalistic ethics guys!1!1!

Well, supposedly chased out anyway. "Exclusively", I dunno - Fish got chased out and this kind of abuse seems to be commonplace for anyone of any note on Twitter (it's the new Usenet!). It's funny to me, this whole drama - Cheong's the best so far.

[Fighter]

Yeah, it's SO funny that *exclusively* women are being driven out of an indursty they have worked for years in, due to constant online mysogynistic harassment.

But yeah, it's totally about journalistic ethics guys!1!1!

 

The unfiltered hordes of the internet are not a hive mind united behind one set of morals and ideals. Mind blown. News at 11.

[namelesshero]

 

 

The unfiltered hordes of the internet are not a hive mind united behind one set of morals and ideals. Mind blown. News at 11.

 

" I can easily ignore the consequenses of the "movement" I supported, because I can blame them on uncrontrallable forces absolving me of any responsibility"

[Meshugger]

u r not funny brah

 

*drops monocle*

[namelesshero]

definitely not funny

[Fighter]

" I can easily ignore the consequenses of the "movement" I supported, because I can blame them on uncrontrallable forces absolving me of any responsibility"

 

Umm.. Yes, exactly.

[Longknife]

Yeah, it's SO funny that *exclusively* women are being driven out of an indursty they have worked for years in, due to constant online mysogynistic harassment.

But yeah, it's totally about journalistic ethics guys!1!1!

 

 

 

Holy **** this guy has zero posts but I'm looking at his post right now omfg I'm trippin' balls.

[Gfted1]

WoT posts do not increase post count.