The music! Good or no?

[cilantroll]

To some of the opinions that the only good track that came out Jeremy Soule's IWD soundtrack is Kuldahar's Theme...NO! 

 

Well...there's no accounting for taste, but maybe I can demonstrate why I think IWD had one of the best IE soundtracks   I found the themes cohesive, and the deep, crafted soundscapes were bound together by a sense of adventure, and vast, chilly, open spaces.

 

 

Here's diverse selection of highlights; not all are beautiful, but they do, IMO, succeed at crafting the perfect presence and atmosphere in a very short amount of time. Watch on Youtube's page so you can select the track's position in the video's description:

• 3 Easthaven in Peace
• 4 Hrothgar's Home
• 5 Temple of Tempus
• (9 Kuldahar Theme)
• 10 Arundel's Home
• 14 Kresselack's Lair
• 18 The Dragon's Eye
• 21 Severed Hand Interior
• 22 The Mage Tower
• 28 Drow & Orog Gate
• 33 Lower Dorn's Deep
• 38 Belhifet's Doom (battle)
• 42 Bonus Track 01
• 44 Bonus Track 03 (most epic credits ever?)
• 45 Bonus Track 04
• 51 Bonus Track 10

Edited September 2, 2014 by cilantroll

[hernedpea]

Guess what? First (and let's hope not last) good Pillars of Eternity music track!   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4m5ZDekQsfc

[Marceror]

Whatchyou talkin' bout Willis!

[Justinian]

The main theme is really growing on me now. It would be nice if it intensified a little sooner and was live instrumentation, but I guess that's coming.

[Grotesque]

 

If only the game was as good as this track...

(also it has drums)

___________________________

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkIoPrtQjqA

 

SKIP TO 1:00/ best listened at really high volume

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJsEYwguuj8  <---- PART 2

 

One of best tracks ever made. I would love to see some eastern influences besides all this Jeremy Soule aka bland galore.

Also it has drums to satiate you for a lifetime!

Edited September 3, 2014 by Grotesque

[Falkon Swiftblade]

Hi Justin, I'm not a beta player so I haven't heard much of the music, but I managed to watch a stream for about 20 minutes and actually got to hear a bit more. Overall I think you're doing a pretty solid job. I liked the opening title from about the 30-45 seconds I've heard. I'm loving about the first 8 seconds of the battle music right up until one part, but I gotta tell you, I couldn't take more than 3 battles with the repetitions of the dadada dada dada of I think the french horns or maybe trombones part with the choir that's ~ 15-20 seconds onward. The horns sounds a bit muted swells and then the drums come in. From about that part on it's very abrasive sounding. If your attempt to make us cringe in our seats you get a hi5, but it's almost too harsh to my ears and I honestly can't sit through more than about 30-45 seconds of that part of the music, it's that strong. I will be forced to turn the music WAY down if I have to listen to that track every 45 seconds as I battle for 2-5 minutes each. Everything else in that battle music is very good I think. Can ya try taking that drum part and the swelling dada dada da da horns out of the mix and turn down the choir by about 20% and see if it still works? If there's any real weakness in your music I can hear, it's that just sometimes you have too much going on at once and the clarity is missing of the emotion or mood you're trying to invoke and the repetitiveness is jarring. Some stuff is super though. I guess it's a balancing game to find out what needs to be in there, vs what's too over the top. Keep up the good work, and have fun!

[Justin Bell]

Hi Justin, I'm not a beta player so I haven't heard much of the music, but I managed to watch a stream for about 20 minutes and actually got to hear a bit more. Overall I think you're doing a pretty solid job. I liked the opening title from about the 30-45 seconds I've heard. I'm loving about the first 8 seconds of the battle music right up until one part, but I gotta tell you, I couldn't take more than 3 battles with the repetitions of the dadada dada dada of I think the french horns or maybe trombones part with the choir that's ~ 15-20 seconds onward. The horns sounds a bit muted swells and then the drums come in. From about that part on it's very abrasive sounding. If your attempt to make us cringe in our seats you get a hi5, but it's almost too harsh to my ears and I honestly can't sit through more than about 30-45 seconds of that part of the music, it's that strong. I will be forced to turn the music WAY down if I have to listen to that track every 45 seconds as I battle for 2-5 minutes each. Everything else in that battle music is very good I think. Can ya try taking that drum part and the swelling dada dada da da horns out of the mix and turn down the choir by about 20% and see if it still works? If there's any real weakness in your music I can hear, it's that just sometimes you have too much going on at once and the clarity is missing of the emotion or mood you're trying to invoke and the repetitiveness is jarring. Some stuff is super though. I guess it's a balancing game to find out what needs to be in there, vs what's too over the top. Keep up the good work, and have fun!

Hi Falkon Swiftblade. Yes definitely, I agree with you and many at Obsidian feelmthe same as you. We're thinking of ways to fix this issue. Part of the solution is to fix the music itself, but there are some system level solutions we hope to explore as well that should make the ambient-combat transition less jarring and annoying.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Justin: May I add a request? And this is for battle music. We only have one battle tune in the beta, so that's all I got to go on. My main gripe is that it's pretty much full on all the time. It's a bit like that funny scene in Cable Guy, when Jim Carrey sings out the battle music when he's fighting his tormented "friend". What I'd like to see for battle music (especially since combat tends to drag on at times, in boss fights, definitely) is some slightly lower tempo and shifts in melody, oh, and also, less forte, please. This would make the battle music enhance the melee experience, instead of telling us all the time "This is urgent, it's now or never, else we end up dead."

[Cantousent]

I request fixing the damned board software so that I don't end up with weird setting every time I hit quick reply, which is virtually every time I post.  :Cant's bemused icon:

 

More to the point about the music, can we have the music shut down when we alt+tab out of the game?  I'm telling you, the wife hates game music and after 18 years, it would be messy to divorce her over it.  I can play it soft and then alt+tab out to play a show or something and, like I said about the menu settings, I play a lot of movies and tv shows from my computer to the TV.  I put my computer music through my entertainment center.  I don't want to have to turn off the sound in game every time.  Having it stop playing when I tab out would be nice.  ...And that seems pretty normal for a lot of games I play anyway.

[Justin Bell]

Justin: May I add a request? And this is for battle music. We only have one battle tune in the beta, so that's all I got to go on. My main gripe is that it's pretty much full on all the time. It's a bit like that funny scene in Cable Guy, when Jim Carrey sings out the battle music when he's fighting his tormented "friend". What I'd like to see for battle music (especially since combat tends to drag on at times, in boss fights, definitely) is some slightly lower tempo and shifts in melody, oh, and also, less forte, please. This would make the battle music enhance the melee experience, instead of telling us all the time "This is urgent, it's now or never, else we end up dead."

Yes I agree, we're definitely looking into it. Sort of relates to what I said above. I would also prefer if the big huge epic music would only trigger when its meaningful to do so. For example, if your party is overpowered compared to an encounter, then the music shouldnt feel epic.

 

  

I request fixing the damned board software so that I don't end up with weird setting every time I hit quick reply, which is virtually every time I post.  :Cant's bemused icon:

 

More to the point about the music, can we have the music shut down when we alt+tab out of the game?  I'm telling you, the wife hates game music and after 18 years, it would be messy to divorce her over it.  I can play it soft and then alt+tab out to play a show or something and, like I said about the menu settings, I play a lot of movies and tv shows from my computer to the TV.  I put my computer music through my entertainment center.  I don't want to have to turn off the sound in game every time.  Having it stop playing when I tab out would be nice.  ...And that seems pretty normal for a lot of games I play anyway.

Thats a great request, I'll write up a bug for it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Justin: May I add a request? And this is for battle music. We only have one battle tune in the beta, so that's all I got to go on. My main gripe is that it's pretty much full on all the time. It's a bit like that funny scene in Cable Guy, when Jim Carrey sings out the battle music when he's fighting his tormented "friend". What I'd like to see for battle music (especially since combat tends to drag on at times, in boss fights, definitely) is some slightly lower tempo and shifts in melody, oh, and also, less forte, please. This would make the battle music enhance the melee experience, instead of telling us all the time "This is urgent, it's now or never, else we end up dead."

Yes I agree, we're definitely looking into it. Sort of relates to what I said above. I would also prefer if the big huge epic music would only trigger when its meaningful to do so. For example, if your party is overpowered compared to an encounter, then the music shouldnt feel epic.

 

 

Great to hear that! It would make a pretty big difference, since encounters are pretty recurrent, at least in the beta, so for anybody opting to fight the baddies, battle music will perhaps be the music that's on the most. I'm really looking forward to the full game later on, coz then we will get to enjoy the full scope of music and sound effects. 

[Sensuki]

Yes I agree, we're definitely looking into it. Sort of relates to what I said above. I would also prefer if the big huge epic music would only trigger when its meaningful to do so. For example, if your party is overpowered compared to an encounter, then the music shouldnt feel epic.

I would also like to point out that there's an issue with combat at the moment in regards to exactly when combat has started. Right now, due to a number of factors including the party being able to see too far into the fog of war, certain non-damaging debuffs not triggering AI targeting and the music not being immediately apparent it's very difficult to tell when combat has started - for the purpose of casting your own buffs if anything else since Josh has disabled buffs until the combat state begins.

 

In the Infinity Engine games if you weren't paying attention and combat started, you'd know EXACTLY when combat started because the combat track would play as soon as the combat state began, usually triggered by either you targeting an enemy or vice versa (can't remember exactly). I don't know if it's the music specifically, but it's not very obvious when combat has started if you're not paying 100% attention to the action. I've had a beetle walk up on me and get the first hit off before I noticed combat started while I was looking around on a different section of the map before the music started. The Baldur's Gate 1 and 2 soundtracks probably did this the best out of all of them, the combat music was obvious from the moment it began - which is important.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Sensuki

[Grotesque]

In my opinion the sound of footsteps for the party members is too low. 

When playing, you can hear the birds, the pigs in town, the watermill, bells but when moving the sound of foot steps is too muffled out and this gives an awkward impression.

Also I would suggest that the effects sounds (like the watermill wheel water splash) should kick in depending on the location of the characters and not the camera location

[Sensuki]

Yeah footstep sounds are too soft

[IndiraLightfoot]

Agreed, slightly louder footsteps please!

 

Another thing about footsteps, playing BG:EE atm, I can't help but noticing how well they have made the various sounds for different surfaces. When party members pass over flagstones, grass or dirtroads, you hear the difference immediately. That's just fab!

 

Another thing is of course howls and sounds in the near distance, which always has a real bearing on what encounters to expect. It's like in COH2, where you can hear the vehicles coming before you see them, and that's a matter of life and death in that RTS.

[Sensuki]

You can hear off screen footsteps in the IE games.

[Justin Bell]

You can hear off screen footsteps in the IE games.

Hmm, this one I'm not so sure about. I'm not a huge fan of the stampede effect of the ie games when you have a full party. That said, we havent touched the mix yet, so theres a chance we'll make the footsteps slightly more audible. And MAYBE we'll be able to get a footstep slider for those who like footstep sfx. Maybe.

[Sensuki]

My point was more you could hear enemies in the fog of war.

 

When you enter High Hedge in BG1, you can hear the Flesh Golems walking around, which gives away their position.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Sensuki

[Razsius]

My point was more you could hear enemies in the fog of war.

 

When you enter High Hedge in BG1, you can hear the Flesh Golems walking around, which gives away their position.

 

Heh I totally remember that. Ah BG the many small things you had that I now seem to miss so much.

 

My problem with the music isn't even whether it's any good (it is) or not but rather that it trys so hard to be subtle it basically doesn't tell me anything.  I've sat there and listened time and time again to the opening PoE theme and yet not only can i never recall it in my memory but i still don't know what the game is "about."  I think this sort of style is perfectly fine in the more open ended games like the TES series but BG and the like had music that practically throttled you before you even entered in game telling you *exactly* what you're getting into.  I find this affects my entire playing experience.  At character creation i'm hit with a very melodic yet slightly reminiscent of Morrowind type music.  It's *very* nice (I love Morrowind) but it still doesn't tell me much as it's a very "open" type music I can tell none of the history, none of the "setting" that the town is in.  I find my play experience to be slightly directionless because of it and thus really couldn't care less about this particular way station.  As a contrast in a completely different style I got done fairly recently playing a game I thought would only be a pretty good game.  Boy was I wrong.  Some 2-3 minutes in you get this track:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaHEPuPX1lY&list=PL222455AF5CAD6AC0

 

 

You know *exactly* where you are going after that track.  But probably the best part is there's quite a lot of stuff hidden in that track as well.  There's a track on that ost called Silver Will.  It plays in a pretty epic boss fight with an enemy that you should essentially know absolutely nothing about and yet... I find myself in understanding with said antagonist because his theme is absurdly meaningful.

 

I think i might have to disagree with Justin on his choice in style.  I don't want a melodic soundtrack I want video game music.  Music that shapes the game it's a part of.  Though I admit I wasn't being fair posting music by Falcom but still if Grotesque can post fricken Ghost in the Shell I can do Falcom badassery.

[poetic obsidian]

I'll repost this here.

 

The opening theme is subtle. Very subtle. It uses the standard technique of building tension and then releasing it with a subdued yet effective climax. da-da-da-da-DAA-da-da-DAA-da-da...and so on. I like it.   It's sweet on the surface, but in that climax, I detect  an element of foreboding. It promises that there is something not so normal beneath the fabric. The music here  is effective, but oh so subtle, and oh so safe. Perhaps too safe. The composer went for the traditonal route here, and while it's understandable, it's a bit of a shame.

 

One of the best parts of the Infinity  Engine games for me is the music. But in those games, the composer didn't play it so safe. The notes from Kuldahar's theme in Icewind Dale 1 make you shiver as you feel the cold, you smell the fire, you hear the murmur of the townfolk. The music transports you inside the town and feeds such vivid images into your brain. That pounding theme as Targos is attacked in Icewind Dale 2, is a veritable military march. With those drums becoming an incessant, heart pounding command of a military officer urging you onwards! onwards! to battle!  For me though, the absolute best opening music has to be from  NWN Hordes of the Underdark. "Waterdeep..." the narrator begins and the musical score underneath builds slowly unto a stirring epic climax that promisies adventure in the mysterious depths of the underdark!

 

My point here: Music was an important part of the Infinity Engine experience, and while the music here is effective, I wonder if perhaps it's  too subtle.

[Grotesque]

 

You can hear off screen footsteps in the IE games.

Hmm, this one I'm not so sure about. I'm not a huge fan of the stampede effect of the ie games when you have a full party. That said, we havent touched the mix yet, so theres a chance we'll make the footsteps slightly more audible. And MAYBE we'll be able to get a footstep slider for those who like footstep sfx. Maybe.

 

 

The current footstep volume gives an impression of walking on the moon (no sound propagation whatsoever) and is not cohesive with the volume of other sound effects that happen in the distance but they're way louder than the footsteps of 5 characters marching or running on the screen. 

This effect is more prominent when the music is turned off or at a lower volume.

A footstep volume slider would be ideal. But I think is better to have the "stampede effect" instead of insufficient volume because its all about audio feedback which is very important (lack of audio feedback has an alien/unsatisfactory effect)

Edited September 5, 2014 by Grotesque

[Justin Bell]

Remember the update 76 video? Thats about how the mix is going to sound, and the beta doesnt sound that way yet.

[GreyFox]

I don't clearly remember the annoying parts of the battle music that they are referring to but I don't mind some loud battle music here and there. 

 

If these are over the top then....

 

Put that **** over the top AFAIC

 

 

If the above tunes are what we are shooting for then....carry on 

[GreyFox]

 

 

You can hear off screen footsteps in the IE games.

Hmm, this one I'm not so sure about. I'm not a huge fan of the stampede effect of the ie games when you have a full party. That said, we havent touched the mix yet, so theres a chance we'll make the footsteps slightly more audible. And MAYBE we'll be able to get a footstep slider for those who like footstep sfx. Maybe.

 

 

The current footstep volume gives an impression of walking on the moon (no sound propagation whatsoever) and is not cohesive with the volume of other sound effects that happen in the distance but they're way louder than the footsteps of 5 characters marching or running on the screen. 

This effect is more prominent when the music is turned off or at a lower volume.

A footstep volume slider would be ideal. But I think is better to have the "stampede effect" instead of insufficient volume because its all about audio feedback which is very important (lack of audio feedback has an alien/unsatisfactory effect)

 

 

I agree but objectively speaking those BG steps could be tuned down a bit...not saying to make them mute or anything but a tad bit lower would work IMO.

 

Like justin said though if we could have a slider for such options that would work even more. The more options the better and it seems that they are at least trying/thinking about giving us some sliders.

 

I hope we do get sliders for selection circles too.

[Leferd]

Despite having played the least amount of hours into IWD2 Among all the IE games, I occasionally find myself randomly humming this along to myself - like I did today when I went on a quest to the Post Office.

 

I never really considered the soundtrack for IWD2 all that great, but yet this happens. Only IE track that can do that to me along with the heavily Conan inspired BG main theme.

 

 

Serious Inon Zur propage for the Tagos theme, Skeleton of a Town.

 

http://youtu.be/9iLKjspPj_k