Ukraine discussion

[Zoraptor]

So you're saying that money makes you gay?

 

 

Nope, what makes someone gay is, well, being gay, that doesn't matter whether you're poor or rich. But a reasonable amount of money is a factor that makes someone more likely to be 'socially aware'.

[BruceVC]

 

So you're saying that money makes you gay?

 

 

Nope, what makes someone gay is, well, being gay, that doesn't matter whether you're poor or rich. But a reasonable amount of money is a factor that makes someone more likely to be 'socially aware'.

 

 

If I think about that logic it does make sense, a very impoverished person is not really going to care about gay rights in Russia because there primary objectives would be survival

[obyknven]

I don't mean to belittle what Putin is doing, and excusing against LGBT people. But the real issue is what he's done to the ENTIRE Russian people and culture.

 

Just interesting what Putin is done to ENTIRE Russian people and culture.

[obyknven]

BruceVC with russophobic propaganda is too slow.  Everyone blame Ukraine per lie and warcrimes now.

 

Germans about lie of Ukrainian Junta.

http://www.welt.de/politik/ausland/article132448944/Kiews-zweifelhafter-Umgang-mit-der-Wahrheit.html

 

OSCE about killings of civilians by Ukrainian military forces.

http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/124216

 

New York Times about how Ukrainian regime arrest random civilians for  exchange to prisoners.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/25/world/europe/ukraine-prisoner-swaps-russian-separatists.html?_r=1

[obyknven]

Kim Kardashian attacked at Paris Fashion Week event by Ukrainian journalist Vitalii Sediuk.

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/gossip/kim-kardashian-attacked-paris-fashion-week-carpet-article-1.1952644

 

Ukrainian patriots attack opposition members. Just yet another usual day in Ukraine.

http://youtu.be/UMlPqDH0eL0

 

 

Yeah, can not wait until Ukraine join to EU and these Ukrainian barbarians flood European and US cities. This is must give epic amount of lulz to us.  

[HoonDing]

We will take only their women.

[obyknven]

100 years ago Ukrainian nationality has been invented by Austro-Hungarian Monarchy.
In 1893 year in US appeared newspaper "Freedom" created by immigrants from territory of modern Ukraine. Here is archive.

http://www.svoboda-news.com/arxiv.htm

In 1893-1914 years they named yourself as Russian people.

 

Only in 1914 year when Austro-Hungary begin war against Russian Empire these Russians suddenly begin named yourself as Ukrainians. In same time Austro-Hungarians invent Ukrainian language and other Ukrainian cultural things (mostly consisted in non-natural anti-Russianism). Ukrainian artificial "nation" as project of Austro-Hungarian intelligence services for war against Russian Empire has been created in this time. In other words Ukrainians are nothing more than Russian traitors.

 

Even original Ukrainian flag is actually copypasted  flag of Lower Austria.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Austria

 

Unsurprisingly during WW1 German Empire fully support these Ukrainian puppets against Russians. Later during WW2 Germany recreate this anti russian movement again (at least fuhrer has been Austrian guy and Austria join to 3 Reich by free will and play significant role in life of EU predecessor).

 

And same story repeated again now. As wrote nationalistic Ukrainian president Kuchma in his book "Ukraine is not Russia" about Ukrainian people: '''Who are Ukrainians? It's difficult question, but we can be sure Ukrainian is not Russian, Ukrainian is antipode of Russian'.
It's perfectly explain why they blaming evil Russians for all own failures , because they are created as haters of Russians, without Russians they're just lost reasons for existence, national hate is their national idea. Obviously such artificial construct as Ukrainian nation can't exist long time and always ended as fail

[obyknven]

 

Murika strong!

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/630658d8-47ba-11e4-be7b-00144feab7de.html#axzz3EiWSWkGf

Sumitomo’s US shale oil foray turns sour

Sumitomo, the fourth biggest of Japan’s trading companies by market capitalisation, said that an impairment loss of Y170bn ($1.6bn) on a “tight oil” project in west Texas would form the bulk of Y240bn of charges for the fiscal year to March 2015.

 

Russia weak.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-09-27/russia-discovers-massive-arctic-oil-field-which-may-be-larger-gulf-mexico

 

Russia Discovers Massive Arctic Oil Field Which May Be Larger Than Gulf Of Mexico

 

In a dramatic stroke of luck for the Kremlin, this morning there is hardly a person in the world who is happier than Russian president Vladimir Putin because overnight state-run run OAO Rosneft announced it has discovered what may be a treasure trove of black oil, one which could boost Russia's coffers by hundreds of billions if not more, when a vast pool of crude was discovered in the Kara Sea region of the Arctic Ocean, showing the region has the potential to become one of the world’s most important crude-producing areas, arguably bigger than the Gulf Of Mexico

 

Murica can't into capitalism again.

[Namutree]

 

Murica can't into capitalism again.

?

[HoonDing]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fRz0jftQSYQ

[obyknven]

 

 

Murica can't into capitalism again.

?

 

Russian meme in stryle "Poland can't into space".

 

http://www.standartnews.com/english/read/former_bp_chief_antirussian_sanctions_threaten_to_turn_round_against_west-5296.html

 

Former British Petroleum chief Tony Hayward

 

In an interview with the Financial Times, published on Monday, Hayward said that cutting off capital markets from Russia's energy groups, which would eventually lead to less investment in Russian oil production, was likely to damage long-term supply.

 

He said the US shale boom had obstructed the growing risks to the world's supply picture, but its effect would wear off, leaving the global economy dangerous exposed to potential disruption in the flow of oil, the daily cited him as saying, adding his comments came as the US and Europe expanded sanctions against Russia on Friday with the US adding Gazprom, the leading energy provider for Europe, and the Lukoil oil group to the list of companies deprived of US goods, technology and services for deepwater, Arctic offshore and shale projects. EU and US sanctions have also imposed restrictions on financing for some state-owned Russian energy companies.

 

"The world has been lulled into a false sense of security because of what's going on in the US," Hayward said, referring to the shale boom that has driven a 60% increase in US crude output since 2008. But he asked: "When US supply peaks, where will the new supply come from?"

 

Russian future production from untapped resources in the Arctic and the vast shale reserves of Siberia are under threat because of sanctions, Hayward said.

 

"Because of financial sanctions, the big gorillas [major oil companies] are going to start cutting their activities," he added.

and now we see what US shale oil IRL is fraud, no profit exist here. Add to this how Exxon Mobil has been kicked from this new biggest Arctic oil deposit because of Obama's ban.... It's looks like US government don't understand what capitalism is and how capitalism works. It's a bit funny when most powerful capitalistic country in the world acts so... non-capitalistic.

[Zoraptor]

 

 

Murica can't into capitalism again.

?

 

? indeed, since Exxon Mobil is Rosneft's partner in that discovery.

 

More like Murica talks the talk about sanctions but won't walk the walk when their economic interests are at stake (Exxon, Boeing, rocket motors for spy satellite launches etc etc), Europeans are ??? as to why they follow what the US preaches but not what it does. US = pragmatic, Europe = stupid.

[obyknven]

 

 

Murica can't into capitalism again.

?

 

? indeed, since Exxon Mobil is Rosneft's partner in that discovery.

 

More like Murica talks the talk about sanctions but won't walk the walk when their economic interests are at stake (Exxon, Boeing, rocket motors for spy satellite launches etc etc), Europeans are ??? as to why they follow what the US preaches but not what it does. US = pragmatic, Europe = stupid.

 

But Obama forced Exxon close all projects in Russia, and this is laughable situation - Exxon must kick yourself from this very valuable market. Comrade Obama is the best ruler evar.

http://newstwenty4seven.com/en/news/vlasti-ssha-potrebovali-ot-exxonmobil-svernut-proekty-v-rossii-

 

[Walsingham]

More oby proving that all you have to do is post a LOT of lies, and some get through.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

More oby proving that all you have to do is post a LOT of lies, and some get through.

Isn't it time for a new alt?

[obyknven]

In Eastern Ukraine arrive vanguard of Chinese volunteers. Cool.

 

 

[Gorgon]

It's kinda funny how you keep painting this as a second spanish civil war. Is everyone in Russia lapping that up or what ?

[obyknven]

It's kinda funny how you keep painting this as a second spanish civil war. Is everyone in Russia lapping that up or what ?

No, we not paint this as second spanish war. It's more about old Russian military joke - China begin offensive by small groups few millions men each.

China easily can flood Ukraine by waves of volunteers, in such situation Kiev can only surrender. I wrote also about presence of Chinese troops on Ukrainian border (or European border ) yet at summer. Current Ukrainian crisis is more complex than western society even imagine, just to say Russia (boogeyman!) in this crisis play role of hired mercs or assassins, who must reshape world for pleasure of new masters. Big, really big changes in world are coming and real events even don't begin yet... And you all are unprepared for own future.

[Zoraptor]

But Obama forced Exxon close all projects in Russia

 

 

Forced a policy of no new projects. Existing ones are exempt- obviously- or Exxon would not have been involved up to this point.

[kgambit]

 

But Obama forced Exxon close all projects in Russia

 

 

Forced a policy of no new projects. Existing ones are exempt- obviously- or Exxon would not have been involved up to this point.

 

 

No.  Existing projects are not exempt. Further interaction on existing projects must be suspended (unless State authorizes an exception) or terminated and no technology can exchange hands (until sanctions are lifted).  Exxon was able to complete drilling on the Arctic discovery well because they were granted an extension to bring the drilling safely to a close.  Beyond that EM can have no further dealings with Rosneft on their joint exploration development project. 

 

According to Reuters:

 

ExxonMobil suspends cooperation with Rosneft on Arctic oil project -Kommersant newspaper

 

U.S. oil giant ExxonMobil is suspending cooperation with Russia's state-owned company Rosneft on offshore drilling in the Arctic due to sanctions, the daily Kommersant reported on Monday, citing unnamed sources.

 

Rosneft and its head Igor Sechin were among the targets of the sanctions, imposed over Moscow's role in the Ukrainian conflict, which has claimed the lives of more than 3,000 people.

 

On Saturday, Rosneft said it had made an oil discovery jointly with ExxonMobil and that the two had successfully completed drilling of a well in the Kara Sea oil province, where oil reserves are estimated to be comparable to those of Saudi Arabia.

 

Exxon said earlier this month that the U.S. Treasury Department had given it a short extension to wind down a rig in the Kara Sea [Note: that is the Universitetskaya-1 well]   beyond the 14 days outlined in the sanctions targeting Western cooperation in Russia's oil sector.

 

 

 

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL6N0RU07B20140929

 

As reported in the NYTimes:

 

The drilling suspension came a few days after the latest round of sanctions by Washington and the European Union that ordered companies to cut off help to Russian oil exploration in the Arctic, as well as in deep water and shale fields, all of which require advanced technology.

 

The Treasury Department put a deadline of next Friday for companies like Exxon Mobil to “wind down applicable transactions” with five big Russian energy companies: Gazprom, Gazprom Neft, Lukoil, Surgutneftegas and Rosneft. An Exxon Mobil spokesman, Richard Keil, said the company had asked the Treasury Department to give it some time to safely remove equipment from the drill site and wind down operations. The department, he said, gave its approval.

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/09/20/business/exxon-suspending-700-million-drilling-operation-in-russian-waters.html?_r=0

Edited September 30, 2014 by kgambit

[Zoraptor]

Yeah, so the contract was not cancelled and the project continued (and continues) after the cut off date, ie existing projects are exempt. There are no new projects and no new contracts, but I never said otherwise, indeed I specifically said no new projects. And Rosneft's chief acknowledges that the existing ownership structure- ie Exxon's stake- remains as is.

 

The purpose wasn't to give an overview of the situation in any depth, just to refute oby. Most you can complain about is whether or not it should be project(s) rather than projects, and frankly I can't be bothered checking that.

[obyknven]

Ukrainian army shelled Donetsk again. Terror warfare against civilians in Murican style has been continued. 

http://youtu.be/CwXekVzzKio

But youtube deleted this video

Not deleted video yet.

http://youtu.be/kkowGV2kdkM

[kgambit]

Yeah, so the contract was not cancelled and the project continued (and continues) after the cut off date, ie existing projects are exempt. There are no new projects and no new contracts, but I never said otherwise, indeed I specifically said no new projects. And Rosneft's chief acknowledges that the existing ownership structure- ie Exxon's stake- remains as is.

 

The purpose wasn't to give an overview of the situation in any depth, just to refute oby. Most you can complain about is whether or not it should be project(s) rather than projects, and frankly I can't be bothered checking that.

 

No.   If existing projects are unaffected then Exxon Mobil should be able to continue  their 700 million $ joint venture project (signed in 2011 which makes it a pre-existing project) with Rosneft involving development drilling in the Kara Sea and the Black Sea.   

 

Even XOM believes that the sanctions can apply to existing projects.  On September 20, Exxon Mobil issued a statement that the company was shutting down its joint project with Russian state-controlled oil giant OAO Rosneft in the Kara Sea, north of Siberia.   Remember that the contract was signed in August 2011 and expanded twice: once in 2012 and once in 2013.

 

Here's a statement from ExxonMobil company spokesman Alan Jeffers:

 

“Under the Strategic Cooperation Agreement between ExxonMobil and Rosneft [signed in 2011], there are a total of 10 joint ventures involving the exploration and potential production from offshore Russia in the Black Sea, Arctic regions and onshore West Siberia,” [Exxon Mobil company spokesman Alan] Jeffers added.

 

Jeffers said the wind down of work activities of 9 of these 10 joint ventures was to be complete by the September 26 deadline."

 

 

Note:  The 10th project is the XOM Sakhalin-1 joint LNG development project.  It is the sole XOM-Rosneft joint venture project not affected by the sanctions.  The financing might be an issue but otherwise it is exempt from the sanctions because the area involved doesn't fit the areas stipulated in the sanctions (Arctic, Deepwater, shale oil).

 

or this:

 

This prohibition expands the existing U.S. export ban by covering all goods [Note: and services] and additionally precluding the provision of U.S. origin technology and technical assistance in respect of Russian deepwater, Arctic offshore, or shale projects. Further, this prohibition applies to existing projects and requires that all U.S. entities withdraw from such projects on or before September 25, 2014. To accommodate the wind down of contracts and operations in effect before this prohibition is issued, OFAC issued General License 2 on September 12, 2014.

 

 

The first highlighted text is simply to point out that not all projects are affected by the sanctions.  Projects inside of the specific areas are affected by the sanctions even if they are existing.    

 

Or Bloomberg:

 

“American and European explorers such as Exxon and Royal Dutch Shell Plc (RDSA), which is drilling in Siberian shale rock formations, will have to act fast to avoid violating the bans, said Mark Herlach, an international lawyer and partner at the Sutherland Asbill Brennan LLP law firm in Washington. U.S. companies have until Sept. 26 to shut down sanctioned operations with Russian partners, according to the new rules.”

 

 

http://royaldutchshellplc.com/2014/09/15/potential-serious-impact-on-shell-from-new-sanctions-on-russia/

 

Just read the language of those statements.  "Winding down" or "shutting down" a project, operation or activity imply that it is pre-existing. For future projects you simply don't initiate them.  There's nothing to shut down or wind down because the project hasn't commenced. 

 

We both agree that sanctions apply to new projects.   Fine.  We disagree about existing projects.  You can protest all you want, but when Exxon shut down the Kara Sea joint venture it clearly indicated that they believe that existing projects are subject to sanctions and are not exempt.  Their actions trump your opinion.  

 

As a practical matter as long as the sanctions are in place, it makes no difference if the contract was cancelled or simply suspended since Exxon can not fulfill the terms without violating the sanctions.  When sanctions are lifted it's a different story, but until then .......  

Edited October 1, 2014 by kgambit

[Zoraptor]

What you need is a good delineation between contracts and projects, which unfortunately nobody really does even when they should. A contract may involve multiple projects, the projects are specific, er, projects or operations like drill long X lat Y; drill long X' lat Y'. Trouble is that people use 'project' interchangeably for both the overall contractual obligations/ operations and for each individual component. And everyone has already admitted that there's one+ projects still ongoing after the cut off date, so disputation there is moot.

 

That Rosneft considers the contract with Exxon still active is primarily relevant to the initial correction I was giving oby, but it has added significance in that any alternative contracts that Rosneft may sign have to take Exxon's stake into account and the find remains a bottom line asset for Exxon- both of which are also 'practical matters', just practical matters that aren't supportive of whatever point it is you're trying to make.

 

So really, you're extending a lot of effort to not actually disagree with me.

[obyknven]

This thread need moar of Ukrainian patriotism