Backer Beta Information [Not Live Yet]

[InsaneCommander]

I have no problem at all with the Beta content. But I'm curious, is there any chance they will release more later? Maybe the beginning of the game?

 

Edit: by "later" I mean near the release of the final game.

Edited August 19, 2014 by InsaneCommander

[Tempus]

Well I would sure

 

I have no problem at all with the Beta content. But I'm curious, is there any chance they will release more later? Maybe the beginning of the game?

 

Edit: by "later" I mean near the release of the final game.

 

Well I sure as hell hope so, some paid $25 and if not then many will feel cheated.  Hopefully they have stuff early level, mid level, near cap/end level for people to play around with classes wise.  Would like to actually play the beginning of the storyline, enough to get a feel of the story of the game.

 

But speaking of storyline, is there a thread that goes into it at least what role does the protagonist plays or the overall story driving the game?

[Volyzer]

I really look forward playing this game. Starting the download right now

[Marceror]

I'm wondering if the subject of this thread should be updated to indicate that the BB is live. This seems a bit misleading.

[Hormalakh]

When can we expect an update to the beta? I currently cannot play the beta in its current state.

[PrimeJunta]

They already said that. "Every few weeks." That sounds like more than a week but less than a month.

[Tartantyco]

I'm hoping for an update some time this week.

[Marceror]

The game really needs an emergency patch to hit the critical, game breaking bugs. A few weeks is way too long for that, IMHO. Hopefully Obsidian has been busting ass all last week and through the weekend to a patch out early next week, at a minimum to resolve:

1. The disappearing items bug
2. The disappearing quests bug
3. The characters getting stuck bug
4. Allowing players to save/load with a reasonable chance of things not going haywire after the loading process.

[PrimeJunta]

The point of a beta is to help development of the final product. That means we are here to help them. Their responsibility is the final product and its users. It is up to them to decide when a new build best helps the project. They do not owe us an "emergency patch" because a beta with critical bugs is not an emergency.

 

At the moment it's obvious that they've got their hands full without our helpful advice. We can wait. Yes, even you, Marceror.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah. They posted quite a dire list of bugs that they were already aware of - so they were super-busy before we dumped heaps of new bugs on them.

[rotam]

The point of a beta is to help development of the final product. That means we are here to help them. Their responsibility is the final product and its users. It is up to them to decide when a new build best helps the project. They do not owe us an "emergency patch" because a beta with critical bugs is not an emergency.

 

At the moment it's obvious that they've got their hands full without our helpful advice. We can wait. Yes, even you, Marceror.

well, I love the feeling of this game, the final version is going to be stunning, but I still dont like to pay an additional 25$ for "helping", is just I was expecting a beta a little bit less bugged

 

[PrimeJunta]

I was expecting the combat at least to be less bugged as well. But that's neither here nor there. The fact is that if they decide to prioritize keeping us (the beta participants) happy, then the rest of the project progress will suffer. I do not want that.

 

I think it's a big mistake to think of a paid beta like buying a product. It's a continuation of the Kickstarter -- a chance to sponsor something you would very much like to see happen, with the added possibility to participate in the process in a small way. We are not customers, yet: we're sponsors. That's different.

[Marceror]

The point of a beta is to help development of the final product. That means we are here to help them. Their responsibility is the final product and its users. It is up to them to decide when a new build best helps the project. They do not owe us an "emergency patch" because a beta with critical bugs is not an emergency.

 

At the moment it's obvious that they've got their hands full without our helpful advice. We can wait. Yes, even you, Marceror.

PJ, I appreciate your post, and I get the impression you're an intelligent individual with some prior experience on related topics, but I dare say you aren't seeing the bigger picture in some respects. I know for a fact that at least one of the critical bugs that I mentioned in my previous post was known to OE prior to releasing the BB, and if they had done really any testing prior to releasing they knew about the others.

 

That said, in Kickstarter update 84 and in a locked post from Brandon Adler in the Backer Beta Bug reporting forum (quoted below) is a list of "known bugs". Well, interestingly, all of the critical, game breaking bugs are conspicuously missing from that list. As if OE wants to convey to the world that the backer beta is in a more stable, playable condition than it actually is.

 

In order to maintain their integrity as a company they need to either a) become a lot more transparent about the true state of the backer beta or b) release a high priority patch to address the critical game-breakers, so that the reality they wish to portray aligns with... well, reality.

 

There's a little more riding on this than "this is a beta, and betas are supposed to be buggy". This isn't some internal company beta being handled by professional beta testers. This is a public beta being offered to tens of thousands of fans. It happens to be fundamentally broken yet up until this point OE seems to be largely obfuscating this fact. It's bad form, and it reflects poorly on them and the game. Remember, the world is watching. And on a personal note, I find it befuddling that OE thought it in their best interest to release a fundamentally broken copy of their game to fans in the first place -- even if they were properly communicating the flaws. Shouldn't they have started their internal beta first, identified the killer bugs using professional, paid resources, and addressed those bugs prior to releasing to a public audience? How is it that others aren't seeing the sense in this? As the old adage goes, you only get one chance to make a first impression....

 

Hey everyone. Here is a list of issues we are currently aware of and will be fixing. We will be adding and removing things from this list as needed.

• Pathfinding - We are in the middle of revising the pathfinding system. In the Backer Beta at launch, you may see issues with characters jittering, getting stuck, getting "bottlenecked" between other characters, and overlapping their selection circles with other characters in combat.
• Sliding - You may notice characters sliding in various situations, where their movement does not match their animation. This is a known issue.
• AI - Some characters (including party members) may not respond to a command. Alternately, they may become stuck in an attack or reload loop. We've also found that our initial batch of instruction sets for enemy AIs need additional functionality and parameters that we decided to continue implementing during beta.
• Selection Feedback - We are also working on the feedback you receive when selecting characters and actions for them to perform. It's important to us that the feedback is clear and immediate.
• Stat Blocks - Many spells, abilities, and items are not yet programmatically displaying all relevant information about them. We are in the process of adding that information to all appropriate interfaces.
• Attribute Balance - Testers have reported that Perception and Resolve are less compelling for their character builds than Might, Constitution, Dexterity, and Intellect. We are discussing different solutions for this.
• Stamina and Health are Unintuitive - We have consistently found with players and testers that the stamina and health system are unintuitive as presented in game. However, we have also consistently found that, once explained and understood, the system was well-received by the people who used it. We are working on solutions to this disconnect.
• Rangers are Buggy - The unique shared stamina/health of rangers and their animal companions has been a tricky system to implement and we are aware that their mechanics have a bunch of issues.
• Chanters are Overpowered - Yes, they are. They'll be dialed back a bit, but in the meantime, enjoy playing a game where the bard-type class is king.
• UI - Our UI is still being polished and fully implemented. Things like our death screen, stealth UI, and the engagement UI, are all being implemented or tweaked.
• Abilities and Spells are Buggy - We are working through all of our abilities, but you may find certain spells and abilities that are not working as they are described.
• Some Missing Assets - There are some pieces of the game that are still being implemented - like VFX, Audio, and Icons. You may notice that some assets are either missing or are temporary.
• Fog of War Working Incorrectly - The Fog of War is not currently blocking line of sight.
• Optimizations - We have not fully optimized the game yet. You may notice that load times and performance still need to be improved.
• Save and Load - We are still working through many save and load issues. Passive and modal abilities can sometimes double on a character after they are loaded. Also, the Continue option is still being worked on. It is best to use the Load Game feature instead of the Continue feature.

 

•  

[PrimeJunta]

I'm sure Obsidian appreciates all your helpful management advice.

 

I still think the project goes first, the beta, second.

[Marceror]

I'm sure Obsidian appreciates all your helpful management advice.

 

I still think the project goes first, the beta, second.

I don't disagree that the final product of the project overall is more important than the beta. A wildly successful launch with a crappy beta is far better than the reverse.

 

But I would place the reputation and credibility of the company before both of those.

[PrimeJunta]

I'm sure Obsidian's reputation and credibility will be just fine if they release a great game.

 

It will suffer, though, if they delay the release, or, worse, if the release is buggy and unpolished. Any effort they spend servicing us is not spent on fixing bugs, polishing, and keeping the project on-budget and on-schedule. I.e. I believe that your suggestion is actively harmful, also for Obsidian's reputation.

[Marceror]

I'm sure Obsidian's reputation and credibility will be just fine if they release a great game.

 

It will suffer, though, if they delay the release, or, worse, if the release is buggy and unpolished. Any effort they spend servicing us is not spent on fixing bugs, polishing, and keeping the project on-budget and on-schedule. I.e. I believe that your suggestion is actively harmful, also for Obsidian's reputation.

Well, in this case it was a bad idea for Obsidian to offer a separate backer beta. They should have just given the backers the same build they are testing internally. Those who wouldn't want to be spoiled need not play. Those who are willing to be spoiled for the sake of making the game better could. And Obsidian would avoid a bunch of extra work to maintain a separate, reduced scope build that may result in bugs that aren't in the full game build.

 

This is essentially what I said as soon as I learned the backer beta would consist of only 1 town, 2 wilderness areas and 3 - 5 hours of gameplay.

[PrimeJunta]

:eyeroll:

[Marceror]

:eyeroll:

Seriously? Eyeroll?

 

You are the one who stated that "any effort spent servicing us [paraphrased: is not helping to keep the project on schedule]." Okay, so point taken. The backer beta, with its separate install package is exactly what you describe. I'm just taking the next logical step with your argument.

 

So is the eyeroll directed at me, or at you? Maybe you just didn't realize how profound your point was.

[Tartantyco]

*Implying that the backer beta is not a helpful part of the development of the game.*

 

You are nothing but doom and gloom, Marceror.

[Marceror]

*Implying that the backer beta is not a helpful part of the development of the game.*

 

You are nothing but doom and gloom, Marceror.

How about you point me to where I made that implication? I don't recall making it, and it's 180 degrees opposite to what I believe.

[Msxyz]

Any news about updates or Linux/Mac versions of the bet?

[Sammael]

Re: Main PoE code and Backer Beta, the way this usually works is this:

 

1. There is a main code branch (AKA trunk) where everyone does the actual programming (or the actual programming happens in separate branches which are then merged into the main branch upon completion). All the bug-fixing happens here. 

2. There is a separate code branch ("release candidate", though the name may be a misnomer) used for testing and bug-hunting. This branch is made at regular intervals. 

3. There is likely another separate code branch ("backer beta") which was created from one of the "release candidates" (possibly the most stable one in recent history) and then customized by cutting content down to its present size. 

 

The way a new BB version can happen is twofold:

 

1. They can create a patch from the main code branch and apply it to the BB branch. This carries a risk that the main code branch is too divergent from the BB branch and the patch will be a nightmare to apply and merge. 

 

2. They can create a new RC which includes bugfixes from the main branch, then ensure it's stable, and then create a new BB from it. This may be more or less difficult than option (1), depending on the method they applied to cutting content. If content is loosely coupled from code and can be parametrized, then it's not a big deal. If it's not, then the work required to make a new BB is probably too much effort.

[PrimeJunta]

If they "designed in" the BB early on, producing one might just be running a different build script. Would still need to be tested separately though.

 

If they have to merge in branches, create new ones, or make the builds manually on an ad-hoc basis then it's more work. Potentially a LOT more work.

[Lord Vicious]

They should have just given the backers the same build they are testing internally. Those who wouldn't want to be spoiled need not play. Those who are willing to be spoiled for the sake of making the game better could.

 

 

Exactly. Other self-funded classic RPG project - Age of Decadence - used this approach, sharing its working beta with backers as it expanded. At the current stage the AoD backer beta includes about 2/3 of the game's content, AFAIK, and it's pretty awesome. The game is available for pre-purchase on steam, and a big working beta is a great incentive to buy into the project well before release. (although the game itself is only for hardcore CRPG players, it's pretty unforgiving). 

Edited August 25, 2014 by Lord Vicious