The Official Romance Thread

[Lord Gorchnik]

I agree about a change of pace being refreshing. I should've said it should get away from being a forced intermission. We don't need our regularly scheduled programming to be interrupted every time there's romance.

 

But,,,,,but I need my ludicrous servings of fantasy, adventure, inter-species romance drama!  You just don't understand Lephys, I NEED IT!

[Lephys]

Yeah, Namutree, I'm not meaning to imply I'm against it in any form, whatsoever. But I wouldn't want the devs of any RPG to be like "Welp, we've got letter-writing-to-a-long-distance-love-interest in the game. Cross 'romance' off the list, 8D!" Heh.

 

But,,,,,but I need my ludicrous servings of fantasy, adventure, inter-species romance drama!  You just don't understand Lephys, I NEED IT!

Worry not! We shall distill it into a liquid for your consumption! 8D! Oooh, or maybe we could make it into something like a plasmid, from Bioshock. You could shoot inter-species romance out of your fingertips!

[redneckdevil]

Mmmm something simple. Have it give an option for who u bring with u to certain locations such as bar/brothel/show/festival/etc and have a random dice roll in back ground.

Example-visiting a bar, 25 to 75% nothing happens besides yal drank some. 25% or lower bar fight broke out, 75% or higher and u got drinks for free. (This of course is bare bones but run with me).

[BruceVC]

I agree about a change of pace being refreshing. I should've said it should get away from being a forced intermission. We don't need our regularly scheduled programming to be interrupted every time there's romance.

 

And I was talking about your example. I didn't mean it was a convoluted example. Just that it seemed to be a very convoluted form of the dialogue we see in typical game romances. It's just the same random "Hey, I felt like now was a good time to just chat like we're on OkCupid.com, and your answers here will directly impact our relationship, and nothing else" we've already seen, only with long-distance delays. That's what I meant.

 

I know the example was meant to simply show that there's interactivity present, so I'm not trying to tell you it's ineffective or terrible or something. Just, for what it's worth, you could do that level of interactivity with letters, but I don't think it would bring anything to the table, really. At least if I'm standing here, talking to another NPC, face-to-face, they're also involved in/dealing with whatever's going on around us. The building we're in could get attacked, whether or not we chose to go off somewhere and talk would affect where we are when the poop hits the fan, etc. Just like all other NPC direct interaction that doesn't involve letters. With letters, if something happens, you just get no letters.

 

That's the thing. I'd want romance to be going on in the midst of whatever else is going on. I want romance to affect other things, and other things to affect romance, etc. Not "let's take a break and make out." That's not romance. That's not a relationship. A real relationship is a devotion to one another throughout whatever life's bringing. It's dealing with actual stuff that's going on, not grinding to level up your love-o-meter.

 

Letter writing could be used in a good way, I'm sure. But, simply "hey, your love interest isn't present, so that takes care of teen squee-age" just feels way too much like "Hey guys, time out... gotta check my mail and do some romance. I'll be ready to go in about 30 minutes."

 

Out of all the interaction you can have with other NPCs around you, long-distance letter-writing doesn't utilize very much of that, is all.

 

Guys this is why I tend to like Lephys posts, its his ability to articulate a point and his reasonable logic

 

This post summarizes my objections to the letter as the only medium of Romance, now you'll notice I said "only". I didn't say the letter concept cannot be used as another  form of interaction or inherently its a  bad idea. But Lephys does raise some valid structural problems around the letter, so I won't say anything more on this topic

 

@ Namutree

 

I'll be honest, I have the most concerns when I think of you thinking the letter can replace traditional Romance implementations. With your modding skills we have the opportunity to create more realistic and engaging Romance like we discussed and most of us ultimately want. In other words no " Bioware Romances only ". I don't want you to focus energy only on something that is one dimensional. But I know this is not what you saying as you have already said the letter can be used in tangent with other things

[Doppelschwert]

I don't get why everyone is so sceptical about the letters. Some people even pretend it's some kind of abstract highly theoretical thing and write walls of texts although it's basically just the same as the e-mail system in Alpha Protocoll (where it was used for all kind of characters, not only romantic interests) and it worked there pretty well.

 

The E-mails were one of the parts in the game I actually liked the most, but I liked the game in general. It worked like this:

You got an E-mail from someone and then you could choose one of a few predetermined answers. You would send the email and only after the next mission you would receive an answer with feedback, showing you how this influenced your relationship to the characters. In particular, there was no save scumming to get the most points for an npc, at least unless you wanted to reply every story segment several times to see which e-mail gave which feedback. Also, the game did not feature right or wrong choices, only different consequences, so you could roleplay your character as however you saw fit in these emails, which shows that this wasn't even some stupid minigame to win someone over.

 

You also saw the characters during some missions, but for the most of the game they are never present. Extending this system to a more complex relationship should neither be a problem nor less fun and you can make it less gamey by hiding the influence update (although it was pretty clear which answers would get which result in the long run anyway).

[BruceVC]

I don't get why everyone is so sceptical about the letters. Some people even pretend it's some kind of abstract highly theoretical thing and write walls of texts although it's basically just the same as the e-mail system in Alpha Protocoll (where it was used for all kind of characters, not only romantic interests) and it worked there pretty well.

 

The E-mails were one of the parts in the game I actually liked the most, but I liked the game in general. It worked like this:

You got an E-mail from someone and then you could choose one of a few predetermined answers. You would send the email and only after the next mission you would receive an answer with feedback, showing you how this influenced your relationship to the characters. In particular, there was no save scumming to get the most points for an npc, at least unless you wanted to reply every story segment several times to see which e-mail gave which feedback. Also, the game did not feature right or wrong choices, only different consequences, so you could roleplay your character as however you saw fit in these emails, which shows that this wasn't even some stupid minigame to win someone over.

 

You also saw the characters during some missions, but for the most of the game they are never present. Extending this system to a more complex relationship should neither be a problem nor less fun and you can make it less gamey by hiding the influence update (although it was pretty clear which answers would get which result in the long run anyway).

 

I consider myself open minded when it comes to Romance suggestions but e-mails in a fantasy RPG? That's going to be a hard one for people to buy into?  I'm sure it would destroy the realism of the fantasy vibe

[Chairchucker]

Except actually Doppelschwart was just using the Email example as a direct comparison to the letter writing idea, and saying 'hey if it worked OK in this context when we called it an Email, maybe it wouldn't be all that terrible in a fantasy context if we called it a letter', and I'm sure you knew that, so why not address the actual point, hmmmm?

[BruceVC]

Except actually Doppelschwart was just using the Email example as a direct comparison to the letter writing idea, and saying 'hey if it worked OK in this context when we called it an Email, maybe it wouldn't be all that terrible in a fantasy context if we called it a letter', and I'm sure you knew that, so why not address the actual point, hmmmm?

 

 

Was he? You sure he wasn't suggesting the implementations of emails ? I was just using a  bit of humour to liven up the mood which can get serious at times

 

Yeah I know what he meant and yes there is definitely a case for that type of interaction and how it may enhance or influence  a Romance situation. This probably applies more to a NPC that is outside the party?

[Nonek]

The thing is even with Doppelschwert's excellent reminder that this system has before and can work again, it's not the only form of interaction, as i've said (quite a few times now) before. There are as many methods to implement interactions with ones spouse as the imagination allows, messengers, kin sent to foster with you, relatives passing through the Dyrwood, emergencies that require you send assistance home, calling for your family when you have established a home in the Dyrwood, divorcing your spouse as you move apart, playable flashback sequences that explain: How you met, how your marriage was arranged, what prompted you to seek your fortune in the Dyrwood etcetera.

 

These interactions and letters from home can present unique situations, and choices for the protagonist in how he deals with them and what consequences are born therefrom. However this much deeper form of interaction than the usual teenage squeeing we usually endure can have many more side effects: It portrays the culture from which you sprang, it gives the player a background he can choose, it gives the player a chance to choose his spouse and his relationship with her, it gives the spouse some much needed agency and independence rather than being just an idiot slave, it can provide a money sink for the protagonist as he supports his family and kin, it adds more content, choice and consequence, it allows the character to define himself and his place in the world, it covers an area of player relationships that has been missing in almost every other game, and it is all entirely optional.

 

To me this sounds like a far superior system to the usual "romance," it has almost limitless potential if one applies ones imagination rather than settling for the same hackneyed, disturbing and juvenile molestation of npc's we have seen before. However that's all my personal opinion and my last word on the matter as I feel slightly sullied now.

[Chairchucker]

Don't beat around the bush Nonek, I can't figure out whether you like the romances we've seen so far or not.

[BruceVC]

 

To me this sounds like a far superior system to the usual "romance," it has almost limitless potential if one applies ones imagination rather than settling for the same hackneyed, disturbing and juvenile molestation of npc's we have seen before. However that's all my personal opinion and my last word on the matter as I feel slightly sullied now.

 

Sure Nonek, you saying you won't comment on a Romance thread has the same likelihood as me saying " I'm done raising SJ issues " 

 

 

And this is not a criticism of your posts, I like your perspective even if I don't agree with it

[Namutree]

 

@ Namutree

 

I'll be honest, I have the most concerns when I think of you thinking the letter can replace traditional Romance implementations. With your modding skills we have the opportunity to create more realistic and engaging Romance like we discussed and most of us ultimately want. In other words no " Bioware Romances only ". I don't want you to focus energy only on something that is one dimensional. But I know this is not what you saying as you have already said the letter can be used in tangent with other things

 

Don't worry about it. Let's just discuss the merits of an idea without any agenda to ensure what type of romances will added via mod. I will add though that I think the letter discussion has run it's course. 

 

There's no need to worry about getting that traditional romance style you want. Plenty of mods will be made by others and considering how many people want romance; I am confident there will at least 20 romance mods a year after poe comes out.

[Lephys]

@Nonek,

 

Your brainstorming ideas are splendid, but I dare say it is those ideas, themselves, that carry the idea of a romance implementation beyond silly teen drama, and not the long-distance status of those interactions.

 

You could take all that creativity you just tossed out there, bottle it up, and pour it over an actually-present spouse/love interest/what-have-you, and you'd also end up with some pretty great stuff that teens would loathe.

 

Again, I have no problem with long-distance communication, complete with consequences and whatnot. I just wouldn't want an entire concept to conceivably be covered by "don't worry, there's a long-distance communication implementation in for that, and nothing else."

 

Think of the stronghold. I'd love for there to be messengers (or, at least, messages) that feasibly make their way to you when something's amiss at the stronghold and you're away. However, I would also like the opportunity to actually make haste to the stronghold, and/or be there when things are happening, and actively deal with them.

 

It's not a one-or-the-other thing. I wouldn't want to be prevented from sending any kind of orders back to the stronghold and having consequences result from my response and other factors. But I wouldn't want the entire stronghold management aspect to be shoe-horned into a long-distance communication component.

[Namutree]

A poster named xLegionx started a thread about romance; I assume he didn't know about this thread. I'm posting it here where it belongs:

 

 Hi Obsidian!

 

   I first off would like to say that I am absolutely amazed by the amount of work and effort that you have put into this game. Its really a big deal for me that you guys are making a successor to the baldur's gate and from I have seen from the game so far you guys have got me super excited and pumped up for this game! Everything I have seen on this game has me waiting in my chair in anticipation for it! Again, I am super excited that you guys are making a game like this and really really can't wait to play it!

 

  Now I was watching the gameplay preview on the game the other day on pc gamer on youtube and not only was I amazed by what I saw but one thing that really turned me off was the fact that you guys have decided not to put romance in there simply because it would take too much time. I understand this and quite frankly I have always been a strict believer in the fact that "you have to sacrifice some things in order to make the bigger machine run better" as it were. But to be honest in every rpg I have played I have always enjoyed engaging in romance with a particular character just to make things a lot more interesting than just the main story. Lol its going to kind of turn me off as I play that I can't have a little romance with certain characters such as Calisca I mean look at her portait! Her pretty face sends me swooning through the pretty pink sky like a bird! xD

 

  But anyway...I ask you guys to reconsider this course of action. Me and a lot of players do like the idea of engaging in romance and sometimes it can end up being more important than the main story to us. I just feel like its taking off a major attraction to the development of the characters as you progress to the game and they may end up feeling like "bodyguards" instead of actual people you can choose to engage in anyway you see fit including romantic situations. 

 

  I mean surely I'm not the only one who wants this...

[redneckdevil]

Beware what u ask for.....

i have a mental image of Mr. A sighing and being frustrated and angry that he gives in and writes a romance outta spite. One so dreary, dark, unlustful, drab, boring, and so bad that it sends the promancers runnimg and screaming for the hills, to never again ask or beg for another romance from obsidian.

 

Or u know point out the romances they have done so far with alpha protocol and whatnot.

 

I could soook see Mr. A do this chuckling and laughing to himself

Edited August 10, 2014 by redneckdevil

[NWN_babaYaga]

yes... the romance option is more important then the main story... so the whole tale of the game is not important but the dating ... and screw combat and adventuring too....who needs that in a RPG anyway.....to be honest i HOPE not one single person who thinks that way will ever be considered to be a serious game designer!!! Somehow this thought alone from people makes me angry. Maybe I do have a very dark side that reacts to that dont know... what kind of common sense is that where one thinks a RPG only needs romances ? What has gone wrong....

 

An IQ test for gamers is what we need before anyone can post suggestions in a forum otherwise we see people soon to pop up asking why there is no AK47 in PoE and where is the FPS mode...

 

And yes i want my CTF mode and TDM in the citys!!!

Edited August 10, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[Silent Winter]

A poster named xLegionx started a thread about romance; I assume he didn't know about this thread. I'm posting it here where it belongs:

...

...Lol its going to kind of turn me off as I play that I can't have a little romance with certain characters such as Calisca I mean look at her portait! Her pretty face sends me swooning through the pretty pink sky like a bird! xD

2 things:

 

1) Calisca is only a temporary party member - not one of the 8 companions.

2) Her portrait is only temporary (as are most used in the demo - except Heodan's) - she'll have a different one in the main game. I believe the one they used for the demo is one of the ones you can choose for your PC

 

(This info comes up in one or 2 of the videos - Giantbomb and IGN but putting in spoiler tags for those who haven't watched)

[NWN_babaYaga]

The guy just wants romances because bioware does them. If you read his post you know that he first slimes his way across the devs and then out of the sudden ROMANCE must be in (after the beta is ready of course...sure thing!) ....Thats all. Since DA2 you can create a complete trashcan of a "game" and just create a text adventure with some options like..

 

1: shes hot, i want to f*** her

2: shes hot, i cry before her and show her my emotions... and then i f*** her

3: shes hot, i rape her! because rape is for some people here and there "romance"

4: i´m gay i dont like girls!

5: i´m blind and her voice turns me off!

Edited August 10, 2014 by NWN_babaYaga

[GhoulishVisage]

I can get behind romance if it's for a romancable vithrak companion.

 

[hoku85]

Obsidian.. please reconsider adding romance to the game.

 

Or at least make a vote for it! let everyone of your fans make their vote heard.

 

if your fans wants you to add romance to the game, tell what it will cost and we will most likely give it to u.

[IRMA]

What I would rather see are a characters choices and dialogues, that allow you to create strong bonds in the means of friendship with other ingame characters.

I don't need my character to be loved by another NPC, I do have a girlfriend of my own (although she has been already acknowledged of my upcoming vacation as soon as this game comes out . What would really transform playing this game into very strong experience that I will gladly remind myself of later on is deep connection based on friendship - having a character with which you get through a lot of ****, you can depend on and his or her opinion on things is very similar to mine. In that case, finishing this game could be compared to finishing very good book, which when is finished feels like loosing good friends you spent so much time with.

This can be done very well without adding romance indeed.

[hoku85]

i feel irmas suggestion would do a great impact to the game.

 

I do however encourage a romance story, because romance can be a good impact aswell like in any book or movie.

 

relation between characters, friends, irritation, hate, love all sort of mix is for me a way to better get to know your characters and how they work with each other.

 

i loved ice wind dale but.. the character had no whatsoever conversations with each other.. having them felt like being one character.. so i killed my squad, kept 1 and finished the game. When comparing to bg where all characters have something to say to each other, sometimes even fight each other xD... this alone made bg a better game than ice wind dale.

[NWN_babaYaga]

Do you guys need some NPC to tell you that you are now best buddies because you have adventured trough 3 caves? I mean when you do a friend a favour does he tell you "hey your my best friend now" or do you two just know it because it´s a natural thing ? It´s a bit like with the messed up new synchro of darth vader in Episode 6.... NOOOOO...  when you speak out thoughts that are meant to be only thoughts (privacy or intimacy of the mind) it´s ridiculous and i feel like a little kid only to be teached how i have to understand a scene.

[Bryy]

if your fans wants you to add romance to the game, tell what it will cost and we will most likely give it to u.

The game is coming out in a few months. We're getting a playable beta in a week and a half on my birthday. So it is an incredibly safe assumption to make that the story is baked into the game at this point. 

 

Delaying the game to add stuff in would mean rewriting the entire script and programming new scenes. They want to hit their deadline of this year. 

 

This is not about cost. It's about logistics.

Edited August 10, 2014 by Bryy

[xLegionx]

Wow...I didn't realize there were many wise crack know it alls here on the forums.

Edited August 10, 2014 by xLegionx