Selection circles design

[Ovocean]

The selection circles have never been a part of what I like in the IE games. I like UI indicators subtle and merging with the game's environment if possible. And I like details and hand-made looking things. The flashy green basic circles of BG and co. obviously don't cut it for me as they are neither subtle nor detailed.

Hopefully there are enough people like me out there to make the PoE team go out of their way to grant us with a discreet and beautiful selection circle.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Ovocean

[Sensuki]

In the Infinity Engine games, there is a slider called "Marker Feedback" under the Feedback tab in Gameplay Options.

 

 

With this slider you can control the exact verbosity of selection circles. You can read what the various settings do down the bottom.

 

So even in the old games, you could basically disable them for every single unit except the units you have selected. They would of course, appear when you moused over them.

 

On the other hand, I have the exact opposite opinion to you. I think the selection circles are not close enough to the IE games, and I don't think mimicking the ToEE selection circle style does anything to enhance the IE-feel of the game, it rather detracts from it.

 

This game was pitched as an IE successor and IE-feels are important to me, and many of the other backers. Selection circles IMO have a huge impact on that feel, because they are omnipresent.

 

I've seen pre-alpha screenshots of the game that have the exact same style selection circles as the IE Games in light blue and yellow, but they've been changed since then to the ToEE style.

 

I think that the IE style selection circles AND targeting indicators (the pulsing triangles, rather than circles) should be used in the game rather than the ToEE ones. I also think that PC controlled units, NPC units and Hostile units should all have a different color, rather than NPC and PC controlled units sharing the same color as they do currently.

 

We know that the default of blue has been chosen due to accessibility reasons. I understand this, however I think green for PC, light blue for NPC and red for Hostile should at least be an option, so I vote for the ability to change the color of the circles of PC and NPC controlled units out of a few presets, or have a legacy circles option that makes them the same as the IE games.

 

Furthermore I request the same Marker Feedback slider as shown in the BG2 screenshot so we can have control over when selection circles are shown. This would please everyone as the people that think that they are non-immersive can turn them down to the lowest feedback setting, and the people who like them always showing (such as myself) can flick it up to the maximum setting.

[Ovocean]

Thanks for the tip but I knew about this and it's not what I want. I like to have the visual feedback of the selection circle, I just want it to look more integrated into the world.

[Sensuki]

Fair enough. I want it abstracted like it already is

[IndiraLightfoot]

Not to be brusque or anything; but immersive marker circles around friendly PC and NPC units as well as enemies don't make sense at all. They need to be clear and visible and actually stand out to fulfil their purpose, anything else would per definition be confusing. If it was integrated and fitted the graphic style, you'd have tiny intricate trinket chains around units or perhaps rope or vines, and then poof, all functionality is goners.

[Ovocean]

Not to be brusque or anything; but immersive marker circles around friendly PC and NPC units as well as enemies don't make sense at all. They need to be clear and visible and actually stand out to fulfil their purpose, anything else would per definition be confusing. If it was integrated and fitted the graphic style, you'd have tiny intricate trinket chains around units or perhaps rope or vines, and then poof, all functionality is goners.

I wasn't imagining something as extreme (skeuomorphic) as this, though I don't see why it wouldn't work as long as the form and color is recognizable at a glance. But maybe you're right in that I'm maybe going too far and what I really want is just something that doesn't look as boring and plastic as a 1 pixel circle.

Edited July 26, 2014 by Ovocean

[Sensuki]

All a selection circle is supposed to do is highlight the area that you can mouse over to select the unit. It only needs to be a one pixel circle.

 

Planescape Torment had a slightly more elaborate circle, but I *really* prefer the IE style single pixel for an IE-inspired game.

[rjshae]

They could adjust the brightness of the selection circles based on the lighting level of the floor, making them a slightly lower intensity when the surface is dimly lit.

[Ovocean]

All a selection circle is supposed to do is highlight the area that you can mouse over to select the unit. It only needs to be a one pixel circle.

All a shirt is supposed to do is provide protection against low temperature. It only needs to be a black plastic bag with holes. Yet you probably like to wear shirts that have a particular look. At least most people do. ^^

 

PS: Selection circles are also used to indicate which characters are currently selected and their faction.

[Sensuki]

You're dancing about architecture there, with an analogy that is pretty unrelated to the quote. Not only that but your PS provides information that I already provided to you in my first post in the thread. By doing so it appears you're trying to oneUP me for some pointless reason.

 

A selection circle is not a personal fashion statement, but yeah sure it can have an art style. My main point in all of my posts that in keeping with one of the key pillars of this project - "The IE feel", I think the selection circles should also follow suit.

[PrimeJunta]

I'm tempted to create a few sockpuppets just so I can vote "no no no" several times.

 

But I won't because it would violate mah integrity™.

[Sarex]

Also it's worth adding that selection circles should be the easiest thing to mod.

[Sensuki]

But they won't be as they'll likely be hard coded.

[wolfstriked]

Just wanna add that for me I feel that the circles should hardly be noticable unless you look for them.Muted colors with low brightness that blend into the terrain.

[anameforobsidian]

I like the circles just fine.

[lychee26]

Well, I don't really care either way as I always turn the circles off in any game I can (or I mod it out if the game doesn't allow it). I understand the need for them, but in the end I just can't stand those glaringly (and purposefully) jarring circles.

 

That being said, I do wish they went with green instead, only because the blue does remind me of ToEE, and I never got past the first few minutes of that game after I experienced that awful and essentially non-existent exposition (I understand that the combat in that game is supposed to be great. I just never really got to that part...).

[Haerski]

Yes, I'd like more sylised and immersive selection circles.

 

That's weird, because I think UI elements are always there just to break immersion. The more stylized they are, the more you are detached and distracted from actual handcrafted environments, so two things mentioned in this option are pretty much in direct conflict with each other. You can't merge something like selection circle in environment or it will lose it's entire point.

 

For me this is mostly question of practicality: The circles have to be striking enough to give you enough information on what's going on, but still be as subtle as possible. I think original IE engine circles were perfect for these purposes. Simple, but brightly colored. I don't think toning color down and adding some decorations is going to enhance them in anyway. Probably just the opposite.

 

But still I'm never against having options. Many FPS-games let you choose your crosshair, so why not do same thing with selection circles in RPG?

[Ovocean]

But still I'm never against having options. Many FPS-games let you choose your crosshair, so why not do same thing with selection circles in RPG?

 

Well put, thanks.

[Karkarov]

I thought the selection circles and little ripped from Baldur's Gate movement marker were fine.  We don't need elaborate dressed up selection circles, the key point of the UI is function lot winning a design contest.  Dressed up selection markers are sacrificing simple ease of use and function in favor of looks.  This isn't a shirt, it is a circle saying, yes really you selected this guy not that guy.  It needs to be fast, simple, and easy to see at a glance.

[fkldnhlsdngsfnhlsndlg]

I don't have a problem.  If I turn on markers then I want to know and see exactly which characters are in the scene and where.

[ashtonw]

... isn't the whole point of them so that they stand out...

[Ovocean]

... isn't the whole point of them so that they stand out...

No, they have to be there when we (visually) look for them but don't have to stand out and distract.

[curryinahurry]

Simple and Clear:

 

Green - Party

 

Blue - Friendly/neutral

 

Yellow - Afflicted/ Not Controllable

 

Red - Hostile

 

The at-a-glance aspect of using a simple, colored form like a circle allows for greater flexibility in design of environment, spell effects, etc.  Too complex a selection circle, an it may clash with floor patterns, etc. (remember, we are at a fixed viewing angle), no-selection circles, and we then have to rely on shaders, and other resources that environment might clash with.  In this case, simple is the best way forward.

Edited July 28, 2014 by curryinahurry

[Sensuki]

Green cannot be the default color of anything due to accessibility reasons, but I think it should be an option because of IE feels. The style of the circle (such as 1 pixel) is more important IMO.

 

If you have IE circles and IE distinction between units, the game will "feel" more like an IE game. When I currently look at combat I see ToEE in real-time with not as good animations.

Edited July 28, 2014 by Sensuki

[JFSOCC]

early last year the discussion came to the subject of colourblindness and Josh mentioned how he and some of the other developers are colour blind, and that there would be options to deal with this. I think we'll have different selection circles available.