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Sensuki

(mini?) Update tomorrow / PE E3 stuff

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Josh posted on Something Awful that there would be an update tomorrow

 

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Adam posted this on twitter.

 

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Four press journo's posted about going to the PE showing today

 

https://twitter.com/austinat/status/476479297956229120

 

https://twitter.com/necrosofty/status/476461218560237568

 

https://twitter.com/dantack/status/476509465974669312

 

https://twitter.com/AngryJoeShow/status/476391463123578881

 

Press embargo is next week, which I think coincides with the Class Update Josh is doing.

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So some video game journalist who don't really give a **** about PoE get to see gameplay stuff before we backers get to see it?

 

That's pretty disappointing tbh.

 

They should never ever show stuff to journalists before they showed it to us. What happened with all the transparency? Why do they follow industry standards which we hated that much so that we went to kickstarter? I don't get it, really.

 

I'm almost sad and angry now that I've spent half a grand on that project. i feel betrayed, sorry.

Edited by LordCrash

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Obsidian wants Pillars of Eternity to sell copies (as many as possible really), and part of that is getting exposure from the press. 

 

The problem with showing stuff to backers first is that it creates an unfair situation where press who are backers get to see content before press who are not. If press are under an embargo to post articles or reviews, this creates an unfair situation where non-press backers can post about stuff they've already seen, but press backers can't and non-backer press haven't even had access to it yet.

 

This makes both sides of the press snarky and creates a hostile situation and doesn't necessarily generate the pageviews that the press want or the right amount of coverage that the developers want.

 

Thankfully Double Fine have already encountered this issue with Broken Age, and now everyone else is aware of the sticky situation you can get into doing this.

 

I know it sucks that you as a $500+ backer have to wait while press journos who didn't back get to see the game before you do, but ultimately it's in the game and company's best interest. I'd rather PE sells really well and they get a nice phat budget for expansions / sequels than getting to see the game asap. 

 

But yeah I didn't create this thread to debate this matter, it's already been done to death in the other thread.

 

Gonna be clickin' that refresh button tomorrow morning.

Edited by Sensuki
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To be honest, I backed them because it seemed like they really wanted to change the game industry. At least that was part of my motivation why I backed them on that level.

 

Now I know that it was just to get my money. Nothing else. They just weren't able to get traditional funding so they asked their fans. But they didn't even want to change behaviour of the style and politics of game development in the first place it seems. Good games are not about marketing. Good games always sell. Quality sells and builds up a reputation. If they fear some whiners on the press more than they respect the people who financed them I've definitely backed the wrong guys. I have my principles as well, you know...

 

Sorry, but next time they shall ask a publisher to back their game to sell millions of copies. Not me. I'm not in again for that kind of stuff. Or they should just give it the name it deserves: preorder. Because that's what it is and nothing else.

 

 

Edit: There is a simple reason to prevent what you've written. Just show the stuff to the whole public so everyone can see it at the same time. That's realy transparency. I don't need an exclusive backers club.

Edited by LordCrash

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So some video game journalist who don't really give a **** about PoE

Please do spout that hipster BS somewhere else, you'll find it's not really taken to kindly here.

 

 

To be honest, I backed them because it seemed like they really wanted to change the game industry. At least that was part of my motivation why I backed them on that level.

They were pretty straight-forward. They said they wanted to make an original IP, and that this was one of their only options to do so.

 

You can feel "betrayed" all you want, but it really just sounds like you spent a lot of money and now you are realizing you shouldn't have.

Now I know that it was just to get my money. Nothing else. 

Again: you just have buyer's remorse. Obsidian are some of the most dedicated people in this industry.

But they didn't even want to change behaviour of the style and politics of game development in the first place it seems. 

And how, pray tell, would they have done that? They run their business the way they want. If you thought you were funding some sort of revolution... I'd go back to dreaming of a glorious industry crash that will surely bring world peace.

Good games are not about marketing. Good games always sell. 

Do you also think that if you're good and pure of heart you'll get everything you want just because? That you can get any job you want just because?

 

By the way, what do you think the Kickstarter was if not marketing?

 

What do you call 79 updates if not transparency?

Edited by Bryy
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Because of time zone differences I'm never certain whether 'tomorrow' actually means 'tomorrow' or might mean 'today'.

 

I'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

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Because of time zone differences I'm never certain whether 'tomorrow' actually means 'tomorrow' or might mean 'today'.

 

I'll just have to wait and see, I guess.

I never know when I'm talking to my Australians.

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So some video game journalist who don't really give a **** about PoE

Please do spout that hipster BS somewhere else, you'll find it's not really taken to kindly here.

 

 

To be honest, I backed them because it seemed like they really wanted to change the game industry. At least that was part of my motivation why I backed them on that level.

They were pretty straight-forward. They said they wanted to make an original IP, and that this was one of their only options to do so.

 

You can feel "betrayed" all you want, but it really just sounds like you spent a lot of money and now you are realizing you shouldn't have.

Now I know that it was just to get my money. Nothing else. 

Again: you just have buyer's remorse. Obsidian are some of the most dedicated people in this industry.

But they didn't even want to change behaviour of the style and politics of game development in the first place it seems. 

And how, pray tell, would they have done that? They run their business the way they want. If you thought you were funding some sort of revolution... I'd go back to dreaming of a glorious industry crash that will surely bring world peace.

Good games are not about marketing. Good games always sell. 

Do you also think that if you're good and pure of heart you'll get everything you want just because? That you can get any job you want just because?

 

By the way, what do you think the Kickstarter was if not marketing?

 

What do you call 79 updates if not transparency?

 

 

You're right about everything. I feel remorse for my pledge. Totally true. And yeah, you might call me a dreamer or whatever you want but I did hope for a change.

 

The 79 updates so far were only "talking" without ANY real gameplay so far. That's what games are all about. You can write lore all day and explain how you plan to do stuff and everything. But nothing is as honest and clear as gameplay. And that's what they've shown to the journalists first.

 

So yeah, I'm disillusionised now, thanks.

 

And I can write as many "hipster bs" as I want. I'm not here to make any friends or to please anyone. Are you the forum's official advocate here, anyway?


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So some video game journalist who don't really give a **** about PoE get to see gameplay stuff before we backers get to see it?

 

That's pretty disappointing tbh.

 

They should never ever show stuff to journalists before they showed it to us. What happened with all the transparency? Why do they follow industry standards which we hated that much so that we went to kickstarter? I don't get it, really.

 

I'm almost sad and angry now that I've spent half a grand on that project. i feel betrayed, sorry.

Over reaction perhaps?

Edited by cornishr
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The 79 updates so far were only "talking" without ANY real gameplay so far. 

Yup, only talking about where they were in the process. And now they are far enough along to show gameplay.

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[quote name="LordCrash" post="1456742" timestamp="1402473298".

 

The 79 updates so far were only "talking" without ANY real gameplay so far. That's what games are all about. You can write lore all day and explain how you plan to do stuff and everything. But nothing is as honest and clear as gameplay.

 

 

Are...

 

Are you currently saying that E3 demos of all things are *honest and clear*? Or shown gameplay footage in general.

 

 

Noooooooooope.

Edited by C2B
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...

Good games are not about marketing. Good games always sell. Quality sells and builds up a reputation.

...

 

Oh boy. I so WISH that were true. Then Looking Glass Studios, who gave us the Ultima Underworlds, Thieves and System Shocks, all excellent games ahead of their time (especially the UUs), would still be in business. And if I cared to, I could sit down a bit and remember more sad counter-examples. In Hungarian, there is a saying "Jó bornak is kell cégér" -- "Even fine wine needs a sign". Yes it does.

 

I fully agree with Sensuki: I want the game to succeed first and foremost, and if the path to success includes building press hype, then so be it.

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The Seven Blunders/Roots of Violence: Wealth without work. Pleasure without conscience. Knowledge without character. Commerce without morality. Science without humanity. Worship without sacrifice. Politics without principle. (Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi)

 

Let's Play the Pools Saga (SSI Gold Box Classics)

Pillows of Enamored Warfare -- The Zen of Nodding

 

 

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Also this already happened. There were multiple people visiting Obsidians office and looking at PE including backers over the last year. How is this different?

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Also this already happened. There were multiple people visiting Obsidians office and looking at PE including backers over the last year. How is this different?

Yeah, am I not supposed to have visited Obsidian last year because it would have hurt someone's feelings?

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So some video game journalist who don't really give a **** about PoE get to see gameplay stuff before we backers get to see it?

 

That's pretty disappointing tbh.

 

They should never ever show stuff to journalists before they showed it to us. What happened with all the transparency? Why do they follow industry standards which we hated that much so that we went to kickstarter? I don't get it, really.

 

I'm almost sad and angry now that I've spent half a grand on that project. i feel betrayed, sorry.

 

...

 

Well this is a load of horse-wordthat'sblockedbyforumfilter. 

 

We GAVE them money. It was not a preorder. It was not an investment. It was closer to a donation. That we happen to get perks THEY chose for us. Obsidian have no obligations towards us other than to fulfil the perks we got as rewards for our donations. They also have a bit of a moral duty, I feel, to create as good a product as they can, while remaining within the constraints and ideas they showed us during the kickstarter campaign. Their kickstarter campaign was one that told us of the game they wanted to make, and how publishers didn't think there was a market for that type of game. So they turned to us. 

 

Nowhere did they mention how they wanted to change the industry, or even the traditional publishing model. They've even said multiple times they think it works pretty well for the 'standard' type of games. They just feel it works piss-poorly for more niche games like an isometric, hardcore roleplaying experience. 

 

So if you're a brutally honest person, be that towards yourself too. Don't put the blame on Obsidian for this. Put it on yourself for completely misunderstanding the message Obsidian has spoken, loud and clear, to us time and time again. 

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So some video game journalist who don't really give a **** about PoE get to see gameplay stuff before we backers get to see it?

 

That's pretty disappointing tbh.

 

They should never ever show stuff to journalists before they showed it to us. What happened with all the transparency? Why do they follow industry standards which we hated that much so that we went to kickstarter? I don't get it, really.

 

I'm almost sad and angry now that I've spent half a grand on that project. i feel betrayed, sorry.

 

I think I can personally understand your ire somewhat Mr Crash, though I do not share it, however I would say that it is necessary to look at the wider picture. The journalists will be shown what they are capable of understanding, which we all know is fairly much limited to pertinent buzzwords and references, while we will be shown the real meat and bones of the project through the various strata of information dispersal Mr Sawyer and others choose to use. I would say that we as discerning and interested parties will always be far more informed than the journalists, and thus I do not mind Obsidian showing their workings to the press.

 

In reality it is necessary to raise the public profile, court reviewers, interest potential future publisher backed projects and network with the rest of the industry. These are important parts of maintaining the viability of the company, and more so in spreading the word and making Poe not just satisfactory for those of us who backed it, but also a success amongst a wider audience. A necessary act to ensure that Obsidian thrives, we get more products that we desire (possibly without the need for a Kickstarter campaign) and that the public profile of Poe is raised.

 

I do not think that this in any way lessens Obsidian's respect and gratitude for your donation and all of ours, merely that they are proud of the work they have done, wish it to be a success so it may be repeated (to our benefit) and raise their public profile as gamemakers. Though I think that the press are hardly capable of seeing beyond their pre-concieved notions.

 

I will not try and condemn you for raising a legitimate concern Mr Crash, as you have a right to do so, I will merely say that it is a complicated matter demanding a little give and take.

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Quite an experience to live in misery isn't it? That's what it is to be married with children.

I've seen things you people can't even imagine. Pearly Kings glittering on the Elephant and Castle, Morris Men dancing 'til the last light of midsummer. I watched Druid fires burning in the ruins of Stonehenge, and Yorkshiremen gurning for prizes. All these things will be lost in time, like alopecia on a skinhead. Time for tiffin.

 

Tea for the teapot!

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They may even show a video or whatever tomorrow anyway, which is why I made the thread. There'll be something. I'll be happy enough to get a few more environment screens and a good look at the UI.

 

If Obsidian gets really good initial sales figures they'll have something to show off to publishers which may give them some leverage when it comes to getting pitches through.

Edited by Sensuki
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If Obsidian gets really good initial sales figures they'll have something to show off to publishers which may give them some leverage when it comes to getting pitches through.

^Is this still a valid talking point?

 

PoE already has publisher backing. It's at the Paradox booth at E3, remember?

Edited by Stun
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If Obsidian gets really good initial sales figures they'll have something to show off to publishers which may give them some leverage when it comes to getting pitches through.

^Is this still a valid talking point?PoE already has publisher backing. The Paradox booth at E3 is the one that's got the PoE stuff, remember?

 

Apart from the paradox deal not being in any way a classical publisher agreement (in fact it excludes what makes publisher agreements bad)(as repeated 5 Million times) that's not what he meant.

 

For future publisher backed Obsidian projects it is beneficial to back yourself up with (own) success. And like any mid-sized development studio Obsidian needs those as well to survive.

Edited by C2B
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Seems Obsidian are damned if they do and damned if they don't. Also, I feel a lot of people are expecting a certain type of game and when it's released, those people may be disappointed with choices that have been made with different aspects, mechanics or design of the game. We've already seen those choices divide the community. I wouldn't be surprised if the finished product does as well. :lol: If anything, it's been a fun wild ride watching this go from concept to finished product.

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If Obsidian gets really good initial sales figures they'll have something to show off to publishers which may give them some leverage when it comes to getting pitches through.

^Is this still a valid talking point?

 

PoE already has publisher backing. It's at the Paradox booth at E3, remember?

 

 

Paradox didn't give them millions of dollars to make game, they only come along after game was already funded with promise to do most of PR work and distribution, which would give Obsidian opportunity to focus on developing game and also save them money as they don't need strike production deals for their physical rewards and try to find someway to sent them their backers.

 

Even if this relationship is very good for Obsidian it isn't same level deal as get game fully funded by publisher, of course this way has it own benefits for Obsidian, as they can have new level of interaction with their fans and have freedom to do what they want, but don't have to take same level financial risk than what they would have if they had funded game from their own coffers (given that they even had such money lay around).  

 

EDIT: I agree with Lord Cash in some level, as reason why I was willing to give hundreds of dollars for several gaming Kickstarters were hope to see what is those studios game developing process and I can't help that it saddens me every time when they use traditional closed door policy type approach, even though I understand that we didn't gave them so much money that they are free from business realities and especially of realities of time and space that actually prevent them to disclosing every aspect of their process even if they would be willing to share it. But life is always full of such disappointments even when you know realities in intellectual level and try your best to be prepared on them it seem that you can't block those feelings fully from your mind, but hopefully this experiences will at end leave positive feeling overall, that make this points of disappointment look like little bumps on the road. Currently I am very positive that this will be the case, but of course I haven't yet played final version of any of the games that I have invested money in such portions that buyers remorse could rise over line of minor annoyance.  

Edited by Elerond
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actually prevent them to disclosing every aspect of their process even if they would be willing to share

 

 

What?

 

We do know their process. From the last 79 updates. In more detail than any video or interview could ever show us.

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We do know their process. From the last 79 updates. In more detail than any video or interview could ever show us.

 

I agree. I don't know of any company that would show their games design from concept, to pitch, to the multitude of different development stages, the distribution of the game, and much more. No other company has shown more transparency than Obsidian.

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You're right about everything. I feel remorse for my pledge. Totally true. And yeah, you might call me a dreamer or whatever you want but I did hope for a change.

 

There has been a change. P:E has reversed the publisher/studio power relationship. Obsidian is producing a significant new IP which they own, and they, rather than the publisher, are calling the shots.

 

I too would love to see our current entirely ****ed up IPR laws, and the attitudes and economy underlying them, change. That however is a bit too much for a game studio that's in the game business rather than the revolution business. If it can shift things somewhat in a saner direction, that's all good as far as I'm concerned.

 

In the meantime, Obsidian just like most of the rest of us has to operate in a capitalist economy where salaries have to be paid, IPR lawsuits avoided, and sales made. If they can do all that with a 100-person-plus studio, while at the same time making significant strides to break the AAA-production-based publisher stranglehold and making some pretty damn good games they've more than earned my support.

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I have a project. It's a tabletop RPG. It's free. It's a work in progress. Find it here: www.brikoleur.com

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