Ongoing discussion of Ukraine

[Gorgon]

Wow lol. You have made room in your WW2 propaganda to incorporate both hatred of Jews and Nazis alike. I suppose because there is still a jewish population in Ukraine with some political sway. Isn't that neat. 

[Bester]

Guys, I didn't read this thread, so maybe you've already discussed it and reached consensus? Here's my question. Apart from the obviously bloшn up Malaysian plane, we must not forget that Putin also bleш up another plaпе їп 2001 sо мy quesтioп їs нoш dїd не ргedїстed авфп впорц уваiаоо афаф Україна!!?!

Edited July 22, 2014 by Bester

[Sarex]

Weak sauce Bester, not nearly as good as Oby.

[Bester]

There are Serbian volunteers in Donetsk's army, by the way, Sarex. You guys have never betrayed your friendship with Russia, not in WW2, not now, not ever. This is some really admirable stuff, just saying. And this is even despite that fact that you were betrayed by Yeltsin. How do you feel about that?

Edited July 22, 2014 by Bester

[BruceVC]

There are Serbian volunteers in Donetsk's army, by the way, Sarex. You guys have never betrayed your friendship with Russia, not in WW2, not now, not ever. This is some really admirable stuff, just saying. And this is even despite that fact that you were betrayed by Yeltsin. How do you feel about that?

 

I don't mean to state the obvious but Serbian volunteers actually fighting for the separatists is not a positive endorsement of Serbia . Sarex what is going on?

[Gfted1]

Because some Serbian volunteers speak of the entire country?

 

Dumb gonna dumb.

[Bester]

 

There are Serbian volunteers in Donetsk's army, by the way, Sarex. You guys have never betrayed your friendship with Russia, not in WW2, not now, not ever. This is some really admirable stuff, just saying. And this is even despite that fact that you were betrayed by Yeltsin. How do you feel about that?

 

I don't mean to state the obvious but Serbian volunteers actually fighting for the separatists is not a positive endorsement of Serbia . Sarex what is going on?

 

 

I could sway your opinion in another direction, but that would involve too much typing from my part and then you reading for hours and looking at pictures and videos of blown up civilians who simply wanted federalism and the right to speak their native language. Let's not overburden ourselves.

[Sarex]

There are Serbian volunteers in Donetsk's army, by the way, Sarex. You guys have never betrayed your friendship with Russia, not in WW2, not now, not ever. This is some really admirable stuff, just saying. And this is even despite that fact that you were betrayed by Yeltsin. How do you feel about that?

 

A few idiots went there, nothing to be said about them really. As for Yeltsin, nothing to be said for him either, he was a weak leader and Russia was still in a state of collapse from the Soviet union.

 

The sad truth is Serbia is on its way to the EU and eventually NATO. We are part of Europe and thus our path is set. Nothing short of another world war will change that.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Sarex

[Bester]

Well, a man can dream.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Bester

[Sarex]

For war? No. But for someone like Putin to lead my country you betcha.

[Zoraptor]

And now, apparently, US intelligence has concluded there is actually no evidence of Russian involvement in the shoot down, though they do say it was probably rebels. They also admitted they did not think the rebels had any such rockets until after the crash happened.

 

Seems (since there ain't a web source or much detail, it's just on broadcast at the moment) they don't have much faith in the SBU and their 'intercepted' phone calls as proof of anything either.

[Bester]

For war? No. But for someone like Putin to lead my country you betcha.

 

I always wondered and laughed. Why on earth all these little poor insignificant countries think we're going to take them in? There is absolutely no motivation to do something like that. Dream on, serbia.

Edited July 22, 2014 by Bester

[Agiel]

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43630_Misleading_AP_Headline_of_the_Day-_No_Link_to_Russian_Govt_in_Plane_Downing

[BruceVC]

And now, apparently, US intelligence has concluded there is actually no evidence of Russian involvement in the shoot down, though they do say it was probably rebels. They also admitted they did not think the rebels had any such rockets until after the crash happened.

 

Seems (since there ain't a web source or much detail, it's just on broadcast at the moment) they don't have much faith in the SBU and their 'intercepted' phone calls as proof of anything either.

 

Not sure why you seem surprised by this or somehow you think this diminishes Russia's role in the overall conflict?

 

The separatists were responsible for the plane being shot down but Russia is directly responsible for the civil war being prolonged as they are aiding the separatists in various ways

[JadedWolf]

Here in the Netherlands there is a lot of outrage in the media towards the alleged plundering of the dead's possessions. Supposedly the separatists took every wallet, camera and mobile phone to be found near the crash site.

[BruceVC]

Here in the Netherlands there is a lot of outrage in the media towards the alleged plundering of the dead's possessions. Supposedly the separatists took every wallet, camera and mobile phone to be found near the crash site.

 

Its horrific and must be very hurtful for the relatives. It also highlight the complete disregard the separatists have around basic human decency when it comes to these types of disasters and how you treat the bodies of loved ones.  Do you know anyone who was on the plane?

[obyknven]

Here in the Netherlands there is a lot of outrage in the media towards the alleged plundering of the dead's possessions. Supposedly the separatists took every wallet, camera and mobile phone to be found near the crash site.

Dead people not needed this stuff anyway. Or Dutch just outraged because they so slow and can't plunder firstly?

[Zoraptor]

Sheesh Bruce, that has to be the shortest thread quitting in internet history, not even a day.

 

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/article/43630_Misleading_AP_Headline_of_the_Day-_No_Link_to_Russian_Govt_in_Plane_Downing

People are spinning, but it sure ain't just RT. Link to the full story which does pretty much bears out the headline, they offered literally no new evidence of Russian involvement, no satellite or other stuff that people had speculated Obama et al were basing their accusations on, no smoking Buk, indeed there were significant admissions there like them believing that the rebels didn't have Buks at all. If they actually believed the Ukrainian intercepts and the like there'd be no equivocation there at all, since some involved them talking to actual, current Russian officers.

Edited July 23, 2014 by Zoraptor

[JadedWolf]

 

Here in the Netherlands there is a lot of outrage in the media towards the alleged plundering of the dead's possessions. Supposedly the separatists took every wallet, camera and mobile phone to be found near the crash site.

 

Its horrific and must be very hurtful for the relatives. It also highlight the complete disregard the separatists have around basic human decency when it comes to these types of disasters and how you treat the bodies of loved ones.  Do you know anyone who was on the plane?

 

 

No, there's quite a few people from the surrounding area who were in the plane, but no one I actually knew personally.

[BruceVC]

Sheesh Bruce, that has to be the shortest thread quitting in internet history, not even a day.

 

 

 

 

Okay you right, but I knew how much you were going to miss my insights into this development...and I felt I mustn't "cut off my nose to spite my fellow forum colleagues faces" 

[Sarex]

I always wondered and laughed. Why on earth all these little poor insignificant countries think we're going to take them in? There is absolutely no motivation to do something like that. Dream on, serbia.

 

I'm afraid you misunderstand, I don't want Putin to lead us or to be part of Russia, I want someone of Putin's caliber (that is of Serbian nationality) to be in charge.

[obyknven]

http://ilawyerblog.com/red-cross-ukraine-officially-war/

 

Red Cross: “Ukraine is Officially in a War".

According to Western diplomats and officials, the Red Cross has made a confidential legal assessment that Ukraine is officially in a war. Such statement would open the door to possible war crimes prosecutions, including over the downing of Malaysia Airlines MH-17.

This means rebelled Ukrainian republics are not "terrorists" or "insurgents", but side of war instead. It's first step for recognition of Novorossiya. Also this open the door to possible Ukrainian war crimes prosecution, only in Donetsk republic during Ukrainian army offence 432 civilians are killed (include 36 woman and 6 kids), 1015 civilians are wounded, this is official information, real quantity can be bigger in few times. In Lugansk republic combats are more intensive and civilian casualties must be bigger than in Donetsk.

[Bester]

In the beginning of the twenty-first century, a secret project was commissioned in the Nikolayev military factory to develop a super secret tank that would possess the firepower and the super-weaponry way ahead of its time. In order to test the machine and not destroy Russia by accident, the tank was thrown into Donbass to subjugate the unruly rebels. After a while, all who knew of the existence of this incredible war machine were destroyed and the tank was forgotten... until now....

 

 

[Bester]

 

I always wondered and laughed. Why on earth all these little poor insignificant countries think we're going to take them in? There is absolutely no motivation to do something like that. Dream on, serbia.

 

I'm afraid you misunderstand, I don't want Putin to lead us or to be part of Russia, I want someone of Putin's caliber (that is of Serbian nationality) to be in charge.

 

 

In charge of leading you towards your european dream, yes. But we don't want poor and corrupt countries as dead weight in our cozy little european union, it's already tough as it is.

[Bester]

 

Here in the Netherlands there is a lot of outrage in the media towards the alleged plundering of the dead's possessions. Supposedly the separatists took every wallet, camera and mobile phone to be found near the crash site.

 

Its horrific and must be very hurtful for the relatives. It also highlight the complete disregard the separatists have around basic human decency when it comes to these types of disasters and how you treat the bodies of loved ones.  Do you know anyone who was on the plane?

 

It's horrific how you're ready to believe anything. There is no proof, furthermore there will be no proof. The media will forget about those claims, but the disgust will remain. It's a textbook smear campaign.

 

Now, let me give you an example of things you should believe, with proof. I hope you can spot the difference and adjust your trust-meter accordingly.

 

 

Object Name : TOPSHOTS-UKRAINE-RUSSIA-POLITICS-CRISIS-CRASH

Edit Status : XGTY

Priority : 5

Subject Reference : IPTC:03010003:Disasters & Accidents:Transport accident:Air and space accident

Category : DIS

Supplemental Categories : Crisis,Transport accident,Air and space accident

???? : 20140725

???? : 090459+0000

Special Instructions : TOPSHOTS

Date Created : 20140714

Time Created : 143035+0000

Program : AFP Reporter

Program version : 3.0.1507

Byline : DOMINIQUE FAGET

Byline Title : STF

City : Davydo-Mykilske

State : -

Country Code : UKR

Country : UKRAINE

Original Transmission Reference : 286

Headline : -

Credits : AFP

Source : AFP

Caption : TOPSHOTS

People pose on July 14, 2014 while standing on the wreckage of a Ukrainian AN-26 military transport plane after it was shot down by a missile in the village of Davydo-Mykilske, east of Lougansk near the Russian border. According to villagers of Davydo-Mykilske, many of whom rushed to the crash site on motorcycles and bikes to see if they could collect parts from the wreckage, the plane came down at around 12:30 (9:30 GMT). Residents say that at least some of the crew were able to parachute from the plane before it crashed, but they did not know where they landed. AFP PHOTO / DOMINIQUE FAGET

Caption Writer : df/MRA