PoE-saga MMORPG? Please?

[Failion]

 

Forget about mmos, mmos are a dying genre. Dark age of Camelot was the best everquest clone. WoW just popularized the everquest formula. 2014 bethesda releases elder scrolls online mmo and guess what. ITS TERRIBLE might as well play 1998 everquest or some random f2p mmo trash. Its essentially a single player game with chat rooms. The everyquest mmo formula already started simple and basic as can be and now today its even been downgraded.  Its a waste of money to make a mmo unless you a game design god.

 

To be fair, there are some innovations on the MMO market going on, like sandbox MMOs (Arche Age), the adaption of action combat mechanics (TERA, Wildstar), player housing (RIFT, Wildstar) and innovative quest design (The Secret World).

 

Also, there's currently such a big shift to f2p going on, that there's pretty good mmos available f2p now. RIFT is probably the best of those. It basicly does everything that WoW does, but with added world events (RIFT is actually the first MMO that really nailed that zonewide-event mechanics after the terrible failure that was warhammer online) and pretty addictive housing (minecraft anyone? ).

 

I can also see Arche Age getting pretty successful with the sandbox playstyle. It just depends on the korean developers to make the right decisions for the western market.

 

I played lot of TERA and tried out wildstar. You are still pressing 1345 or QER whatever.They still all copies of 1998 game. The problem with the mmorpg genre its become too pidgin holed into making everquest clones. Ya there are games like eve online and darkfall online which is essentially unreal tournament in poor mmorpg format. It is DIFFERENT but still sucks because every mmorpg player and developer too ingrained into the everquest mmorpg format. I want to see maybe a mmorpg that does darkfall or sandbox type gameplay but have it triple AAA funding and not 3 guys developing it in their spare time. There a huge risk however deviating too much from the everquest mmorpg format. World of Darkness mmorpg was too out there game design who knows how much money they wasted on developing it.

[Darji]

 

Forget about mmos, mmos are a dying genre. Dark age of Camelot was the best everquest clone. WoW just popularized the everquest formula. 2014 bethesda releases elder scrolls online mmo and guess what. ITS TERRIBLE might as well play 1998 everquest or some random f2p mmo trash. Its essentially a single player game with chat rooms. The everyquest mmo formula already started simple and basic as can be and now today its even been downgraded.  Its a waste of money to make a mmo unless you a game design god.

 

To be fair, there are some innovations on the MMO market going on, like sandbox MMOs (Arche Age), the adaption of action combat mechanics (TERA, Wildstar), player housing (RIFT, Wildstar) and innovative quest design (The Secret World).

 

Also, there's currently such a big shift to f2p going on, that there's pretty good mmos available f2p now. RIFT is probably the best of those. It basicly does everything that WoW does, but with added world events (RIFT is actually the first MMO that really nailed that zonewide-event mechanics after the terrible failure that was warhammer online) and pretty addictive housing (minecraft anyone? ).

 

I can also see Arche Age getting pretty successful with the sandbox playstyle. It just depends on the korean developers to make the right decisions for the western market.

 

All those games however do not change the actual game. All are just quest grinding games. I wonder what Everquest next will do in this regard.  That could be the savior of this genre^^

 

However since FFXI i really miss story heavy and especially really good stories in MMOS. FFXI maybe even had the best FF story ever created and while FFXIV story is good in the end it seems really shallow in the end. I really hope Expansions will change that a bit. 

[Zwiebelchen]

 

 

Forget about mmos, mmos are a dying genre. Dark age of Camelot was the best everquest clone. WoW just popularized the everquest formula. 2014 bethesda releases elder scrolls online mmo and guess what. ITS TERRIBLE might as well play 1998 everquest or some random f2p mmo trash. Its essentially a single player game with chat rooms. The everyquest mmo formula already started simple and basic as can be and now today its even been downgraded.  Its a waste of money to make a mmo unless you a game design god.

 

To be fair, there are some innovations on the MMO market going on, like sandbox MMOs (Arche Age), the adaption of action combat mechanics (TERA, Wildstar), player housing (RIFT, Wildstar) and innovative quest design (The Secret World).

 

Also, there's currently such a big shift to f2p going on, that there's pretty good mmos available f2p now. RIFT is probably the best of those. It basicly does everything that WoW does, but with added world events (RIFT is actually the first MMO that really nailed that zonewide-event mechanics after the terrible failure that was warhammer online) and pretty addictive housing (minecraft anyone? ).

 

I can also see Arche Age getting pretty successful with the sandbox playstyle. It just depends on the korean developers to make the right decisions for the western market.

 

All those games however do not change the actual game. All are just quest grinding games. I wonder what Everquest next will do in this regard.  That could be the savior of this genre^^

 

However since FFXI i really miss story heavy and especially really good stories in MMOS. FFXI maybe even had the best FF story ever created and while FFXIV story is good in the end it seems really shallow in the end. I really hope Expansions will change that a bit. 

 

 

I agree. All the games I mentioned contributed something unique to the genre, but failed on a lot of other levels.

 

I wish MMORPG makers would learn from the mistakes others did. But it seems they don't.

 

I wish I could have an MMORPG with the quest design of The Secret World, cinematics of SW:TOR, combat of TERA or Wildstar, the complex talent system and the cool zone events from RIFT the crafting of Minecraft and the housing of RIFT or Wildstar.

[Kharador]

Can I say...

 

NO!!

[CBuckey]

Can I say...

 

NO!!

 

I want to quote this as much as possible because I agree. MMORPGs, with rare exceptions, seem to be absolute financial poison. They're expensive to make and run, hard to get a return on the investments involved, and the market's already saturated with fantasy RPGs. By all accounts I've read Elder Scrolls Online is going to bomb, and that's part of a AAA franchise that's a license to print money for Bethesda. I'm not sure an MMORPG based on much more niche-orientent game like PoE would fare any better.

[nikolokolus]

 

Can I say...

 

NO!!

 

I want to quote this as much as possible because I agree. MMORPGs, with rare exceptions, seem to be absolute financial poison. They're expensive to make and run, hard to get a return on the investments involved, and the market's already saturated with fantasy RPGs. By all accounts I've read Elder Scrolls Online is going to bomb, and that's part of a AAA franchise that's a license to print money for Bethesda. I'm not sure an MMORPG based on much more niche-orientent game like PoE would fare any better.

 

 

The only MMO I ever participated in that I thought was even remotely engaging was Dark Ages of Camelot, but to be into it you really have to sacrifice the important bits of your life. I had to bail within 3 or 4 months because I couldn't find any way to balance my life with being able to take part in the Realm vs. Realm gameplay (which was the only compelling part of the game IMO).

 

But hey, more power to those who happen to be one of the rare invidiuals who don't have to hold down a job, have a partner that wants to game with you and you don't mind if your body turns into a gelatinous bag of fat.

[Bryy]

 

Can I say...

 

NO!!

 

I want to quote this as much as possible because I agree. MMORPGs, with rare exceptions, seem to be absolute financial poison. They're expensive to make and run, hard to get a return on the investments involved, and the market's already saturated with fantasy RPGs. By all accounts I've read Elder Scrolls Online is going to bomb, and that's part of a AAA franchise that's a license to print money for Bethesda. I'm not sure an MMORPG based on much more niche-orientent game like PoE would fare any better.

 

I want to point out that, regardless of if they ever make a PoE MMO, they currently are making two.

[deathcoy]

I'm really against an MMO version. Swtor couldn't pull it off, TESO lost steam etc... Theres a suite of SP RPG lore games that went MMO route and was lackluster or failed miserably...

I feel SP RPG should remain SP and seperated from MMORPG... What makes a great RPG is its inherent SP component too while MMORPG focuses on totally different mechanics, design that only applies to MMO to make it successful, which usually involves slaughtering the aspects that make a great RPG...

[Infiltrator_SF]

Hell no. If you want to get milked, there's plenty of places you can get those suckers onto your money titties.

[Karkarov]

I'm really against an MMO version. Swtor couldn't pull it off, TESO lost steam etc... Theres a suite of SP RPG lore games that went MMO route and was lackluster or failed miserably...

I feel SP RPG should remain SP and seperated from MMORPG... What makes a great RPG is its inherent SP component too while MMORPG focuses on totally different mechanics, design that only applies to MMO to make it successful, which usually involves slaughtering the aspects that make a great RPG...

The problem is these were single player games they tried to turn into mmo's.  People didn't want Skyrim to be an mmo, they just wanted it to have multiplayer.  Then when they tried to turn it into an mmo they realized no one cared cause it was an mmo that just had a Elder Scrolls paint job so instead of totally scrapping it and starting over (which they couldn't afford), they just tried to make it more like Elder Scrolls and Skyrim.  This worked actually but no matter what they did it is still an mmo, now it just plays more like Skyrim does.  But again the core problem wasn't fixed.

 

Players didn't want Elder Scrolls the MMO, they wanted Elder Scrolls 6 now with 2-4 player Co-Op.

 

You also have to understand... there are tons of MMO's out there, mmo players are already dedicated to their various games and most of the people who moved on from those games moved on to the point where they don't play MMO's at all anymore.  Even WoW is bleeding subs and it is unlikely to stop regardless of how good their expansion is.

[Bryy]

Hell no. If you want to get milked, there's plenty of places you can get those suckers onto your money titties.

You know.

 

I've never understood why people say MMOs are cash grabs. By definition, they take more work than a regular game.

 

Also: referring to making any product as "sucking on the money titties" betrays a vast misunderstanding of how the world works.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Bryy

[Stun]

You know.

 

I've never understood why people say MMOs are cash grabs. By definition, they take more work than a regular game.

You're right. It's erroneous to call them Cash Grabs because that implies a quick, almost Fly-by-night money making scheme. And that's not even remotely what MMOs are about. Successful MMOs are specifically designed to be the exact opposite: They're long term cash flow for a company. They're shameless fan-milking machines that require the player to first Purchase the game at full retail price ($50-$60) and then continue to shell out monthly subscription fees.

 

As a consumer, that was a business model I used to be ok with but now I utterly despise on principle alone. The day Obsidian decides to bastardize PoE by making an MMO iteration carrying its name is the day I divorce myself from the franchise entirely, and depending on how pronounced the bastardization is, the entire company forever.

Edited June 26, 2014 by Stun

[rustypup]

I've never understood why people say MMOs are cash grabs.

Content is replaced by the Multi in MMO. They rely on the other players to fluff it out and it's dull, repetitive and uninspired. 

 

Would you prefer cash cows? 

[Zwiebelchen]

 

You know.

 

I've never understood why people say MMOs are cash grabs. By definition, they take more work than a regular game.

You're right. It's erroneous to call them Cash Grabs because that implies a quick, almost Fly-by-night money making scheme. And that's not even remotely what MMOs are about. Successful MMOs are specifically designed to be the exact opposite: They're long term cash flow for a company. They're shameless fan-milking machines that require the player to first Purchase the game at full retail price ($50-$60) and then continue to shell out monthly subscription fees.

 

As a consumer, that was a business model I used to be ok with but now I utterly despise on principle alone. The day Obsidian decides to bastardize PoE by making an MMO iteration carrying its name is the day I divorce myself from the franchise entirely, and depending on how pronounced the bastardization is, the entire company forever.

 

 

So how is an MMORPG different to a normal game then? You pay the retail price and pay for every major expansion pack or DLC. Just like you do with MMORPGs. The subscription is nothing more or less than a monthly (smaller) expansion to the game due to continued content production.

 

Note that I'm not talking about WoW here, that somehow manages to survive with a retail price, monthly subscription, retail prices for expansions AND extra cost for account services. WoW is pretty ridicolous in that regard. But it's also kind of the last man standing in that business model, as the majority of MMORPGs are free to play now (or at least free of monthly subscription).

Edited June 26, 2014 by Zwiebelchen

[Stun]

So how is an MMORPG different to a normal game then? You pay the retail price and pay for every major expansion pack or DLC. Just like you do with MMORPGs. The subscription is nothing more or less than a monthly (smaller) expansion to the game due to continued content production.

LOL, I don't recall ever buying a single player game and then being told, 1 month later, that I can no longer play it unless I buy DLC.

 

Please, lets not defend stupid.

[Zwiebelchen]

 

So how is an MMORPG different to a normal game then? You pay the retail price and pay for every major expansion pack or DLC. Just like you do with MMORPGs. The subscription is nothing more or less than a monthly (smaller) expansion to the game due to continued content production.

LOL, I don't recall ever buying a single player game and then being told, 1 month later, that I can no longer play it unless I buy DLC.

 

Please, lets not defend stupid.

 

 

Good point! But as I said, monthly subscription is pretty much gone in the genre, with only very few resisting.

[LordCrash]

Kill it with fire! 

 

Principiis obsta!

[Infiltrator_SF]

 

Hell no. If you want to get milked, there's plenty of places you can get those suckers onto your money titties.

You know.

 

I've never understood why people say MMOs are cash grabs. By definition, they take more work than a regular game.

 

Also: referring to making any product as "sucking on the money titties" betrays a vast misunderstanding of how the world works.

 

 

I know. Because most MMOs ARE cash grabs until they make them F2P, and ultimately flop, I follow the scene from a distance and 80%-90% of the MMOs end up in this viscous cycle - grab as much money from subscriptions early on, then go F2P and hope for the best.

Edited June 27, 2014 by Infiltrator_SF

[Valmy]

Shouldn't first wait for POE to be a successful franchise before we plot its demise with a MMORPG?

[NWN_babaYaga]

MMO´s are the places for teens who dont go out like we did back in the day. Someone should make a MMO where you can play football and hide and seek and this cool stuff you did in real life...or better. Nail the mmo gamers to their seat and set them on fire! No one outthere will miss them anyway :D

[PieSnatcher]

MMO´s are the places for teens who dont go out like we did back in the day.

Go... out? You mean, like, for a hot pocket or something?

[Zwiebelchen]

MMO´s are the places for teens who dont go out like we did back in the day.

 

O_o

[Karkarov]

MMO´s are the places for teens who dont go out like we did back in the day. Someone should make a MMO where you can play football and hide and seek and this cool stuff you did in real life...or better. Nail the mmo gamers to their seat and set them on fire! No one outthere will miss them anyway :D

Thinks back to his youth where he went outside playing football and hide and seek.....

 

Wait..... no....

 

Actually I was too busy playing Dragon Warrior on my NES and Ultima games on my PC.

[Namutree]

MMO´s are the places for teens who dont go out like we did back in the day. Someone should make a MMO where you can play football and hide and seek and this cool stuff you did in real life...or better. Nail the mmo gamers to their seat and set them on fire! No one outthere will miss them anyway :D

I think maybe you have issues...

[Fatback]

Some of the best gaming moments I have ever had was racing an alliance guild to get a server first for finishing a raid dungeon or making a call to arms to kill said alliance guild when they were trying to open the gates to one of the newest dungeons. So the guild I was in could open it a few nights later. No mmos did what vanilla world of Warcraft did since not even world of Warcraft

Edited July 2, 2014 by Fatback