alanschu Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Myabe he/she pissed Revan off so he/she had them washing dishes and cleaning the bathrooms. Revan was first and foremost a tactician and general he wouldn't let personal feelings get in the way of sound tactical judgement. Perhaps because the Jedi is a 0 XP n00b out of the Academy, Revan didn't use him since he would not be useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idunnowhattochoose Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 The jedi in this game cannot be compared to the jedi in the movies. They still know alot of ancient force powers (battle meditation) that are forgotten in the movies + the lightsaber is still a very powerful weapon in this era. In the movies the jedi have much more advanced opponents and that way they're easy to kill. In the game 1 jedi could indeed kill 15 men even if he had an awesome number of opponents, look what revan did on the Star forge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 I really should open a new window and add all my comments into a single post On a side note, for some reason I bet Hades_One wouldn't have a problem with a 0 XP Scoundrel...no matter what his response will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Sorry about this guys, but Hades has the superior side. He has been given stronger points, so unless he really screwed up soon, he wins. He didn't screw up and thus Hades wins. It really is illogical to have a 0 exp VETEREN (spelling problems in there). But the bigger question is in the grand scheme of things will it really be a game-ruining matter? It seems a relatively small detail to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdy-worker 1138 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Just a thought. One could speculate that our protagonist is "severed" (somehow) from the force rather than have forgotten to use the force....mayhaps the "forgotten part was just a poor choice of words. I meen what is a jedi without the force?..nothing! a level 1 peon at best. Though this is just idle thinking on my part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdy-worker 1138 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Loosing a hammer or a wrench would be like a jedi loosing his/hers lightsaber..loosing the force would be like the carpenter/mechanic loosing all their skills to build/repair...anyway it was just a stray thought as i said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Quasar Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 There is no such thing as a small detail in a story. Every "t" must be crossed and every "i" have its dot. The story is in the details. My, my, my, you are pretentious. Is it just that time of the month? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kdy-worker 1138 Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 Hmm you may be right..though i have always thought that the force was the very core of a jedis existance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Quasar Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 YOu are still very much wrong. The Force is as much as a tool as a lightsaber. Sith propaganda Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 The force is core to the jedi, but they are not helpless without. I can find maybe a dozen quotations or events in SW EU books where a jedi under Yslamiri accomplishes incredible things or is considered very dangerous. Jedi are extremely fit and many are combat veterens. The force is or isn't a tool like a lightsaber is a constant debate in the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted July 12, 2004 Share Posted July 12, 2004 YOu are still very much wrong. The Force is as much as a tool as a lightsaber. That quote right there proves you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. The Force is NOT a tool. That has been said COUNTLESS times in the movies, books, games, etc. The Force is, pretty much, equivalent to any kind of knowledge or skills you learn. It's not just a mere "screwdriver" or "hammer". "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 The act of using the force is applying knowledge of manipulating the force but the force itself is a tool. Ummm...no. The force is something that people can use but that in and of itself doesn't make it a tool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indalecio Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 YOu are still very much wrong. The Force is as much as a tool as a lightsaber. That quote right there proves you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about. The Force is NOT a tool. That has been said COUNTLESS times in the movies, books, games, etc. The Force is, pretty much, equivalent to any kind of knowledge or skills you learn. It's not just a mere "screwdriver" or "hammer". The Force is a tool in this context. But to the Jedi its more like a symbiotic relationship. The Jedi uses the Force, but at the same time, benefitting the Force itself by promoting peace and harmony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 The force can be used as a tool to accomplish something, but it isn't a tool itself. A computer can be used as a word processor, but is the computer a word processor? There are infinite examples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 alanschu, do all of us a favor that if you are going to make 5 to 6 posts in a row like that, put them in one big post. I know post count might be important to you and all, but it is really freaking annoying and borders on spamming. First off, experience and levels are not arbitrary. If you think they are arbitrary, then don't play CRPGs. They are a gauging system for one's knowledge and power level. If you cannot understand this concept then CRPGs are not for you to play. Go play those action games and stay away from CRPGs. Secondly, the games of are two genres therefore incompatible even if they are in the same setting. A CRPG cannot mirror an action game and an action game cannot mirror a CRPG. THey might have shared elements, but their fundamental core is quite different. If you cannot understand this concept, get out of gaming. THirdly, in a war against the Mandalorians a Jedi that couldn't use his abilities effectively would be dead. End of story. He survived a time of great war and strife, and would have faced battle. Also Revan wouldn't be stupid enough to put a Jedi in KP duty. That would be like putting A Petty Officer First Class Nuclear Tech in KP. Not going to happen. Fourth point, Revan is a tactician and even a n00b from the academy would have better battle training and more skill than a non-jedi n00b. At the very least Revan would have used him as cannonfodder. Finally, Yes, I would be against this even if it was a 0 XP scoundrel. The back story is still has the character a veteren of the Mandalorian wars. I do not care about my post count. To be honest I fail to see the point of post counts since I don't feel they serve any real purpose. And considering my replies are generally on topic, I also do not see how it could border on spamming. First off, experience and levels are not arbitrary. If you think they are arbitrary, then don't play CRPGs. They are a gauging system for one's knowledge and power level. If you cannot understand this concept then CRPGs are not for you to play. Go play those action games and stay away from CRPGs. I never said experience and levels were not relevant...they are just arbitrary. I understand that they are a measurement of power, but it is all relative. It's a method of progress, but the fact that a player starts at 0 XP does not have to mean he is an absolute n00b. If this was the case nobody should have 0 XP, since nobody has zero experience. It is a tool for measuring progress, agreed. But since no one can say what 0 XP is or 1000 XP or level 1...it's just relative. A level 4 character is more powerful than a level 1 character. But to say that a level 4 character is "weak" for someone and their history is taking the rules farther than one has to (which would make sense, seeing as you have a beef against the game so you will bring out as much as you can against it). Secondly, the games of are two genres therefore incompatible even if they are in the same setting. A CRPG cannot mirror an action game and an action game cannot mirror a CRPG. THey might have shared elements, but their fundamental core is quite different. If you cannot understand this concept, get out of gaming. No! A game style of an action game or a CRPG is a means of telling a story. There is absoultely no reason at all that some story-related event that happens in an action game cannot happen in a story-related event in a CRPG. The act of playing the game is fundamentally different, but that is not the discussion...the actions that happen to characters is up for discussion. It's not about "mirroring" the game, it is just utilizing a story-related idea from it. THirdly, in a war against the Mandalorians a Jedi that couldn't use his abilities effectively would be dead. End of story. He survived a time of great war and strife, and would have faced battle. Also Revan wouldn't be stupid enough to put a Jedi in KP duty. That would be like putting A Petty Officer First Class Nuclear Tech in KP. Not going to happen. I didn't say he "couldn't" use his abilities....I'm saying he didn't. If Revan was truly a great tactician, if he felt that this Jedi that was following him around was not very talented yet, he would not utilize him nearly as much as the rest of the Army. As you said, a 0 XP Jedi is a n00b fresh out of the Academy...I would think he'd be Revan's last resort since there was almost undoubtedly Jedi that had more than 0 XP. As for the "KP" duty or whatever....it was a euphemism. I simply used it as a way that the PC we will play did other things than get involved in the combat. Fourth point, Revan is a tactician and even a n00b from the academy would have better battle training and more skill than a non-jedi n00b. At the very least Revan would have used him as cannonfodder. Jedi Masters struggled in a fight against overwhelming odds in Episode 2. And why would he have more battle training than a non-jedi n00b? They both have 0 XP. Wouldn't a soldier, someone bred for battle, have more preliminary training than a Jedi that is utilized for much more diverse roles than combat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSun Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Heh,this whole debate has run into the brick wall known as "personal/individual taste." To Hades the game mechanics and the story matching up is not only important but it's important enough to have an effect on how he judges the game. Some agree with the points he's bringing up but don't feel it's as important as he does and as such are not going to judge the game on something like that. Others disagree with it completely and think he's off his rocker. Interesting to watch... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 To whom are you refering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSun Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Depends,what group are you asking about? From things I've seen I'm to guess you agree with him but won't judge the game on the issue. Which would be where I fit in,he has a point but I'm not going let something like that ruin the game or even bother me for the most part. Others seem to think he's just trolling for expressing his POV on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I think both are right actually some time. So hades was the one that you said some sorta agreed with. and others thought was insane. I actually really love playing devil's advocate. That's one reason I disagreed with Hades so much (and better than anyone else has done recently). I actually sorta agreed with him all along. Man, hades was pretty good at debating. Alot of people trying to take me on recently don't do so well though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSun Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 I think both are right actually some time. Trolling to me is making pointless post with intent to piss people off. That isn't what he's doing really. Now he seems to to have a lot of fun with his posts(and with some individuals) but he's still just expressing his POV on the game like anyone else. So hades was the one that you said some sorta agreed with. and others thought was insane. Correct. I actually really love playing devil's advocate. That's one reason I disagreed with Hades so much (and better than anyone else has done recently). I actually sorta agreed with him all along. Man, hades was pretty good at debating. Alot of people trying to take me on recently don't do so well though... Heh,this little topic as I've said has been fun to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Well, I think Hades likes to complain (and get into debates where he humiliates his opponents). But he's also got good points and has valid concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSun Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 Well, I think Hades likes to complain (and get into debates where he humiliates his opponents). But he's also got good points and has valid concerns. Well most of the time he's on topic... That's gotta count for something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShinIchiro Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 One reason he beats so many people who challenge him. That and he keeps his cool while many of them rant. And the ability to refrence and back up an argument is useful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSun Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 That and he keeps his cool while many of them rant. Always a good thing to have,something he does rather well. Now if only I could that down when my wife and I argue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Idunnowhattochoose Posted July 13, 2004 Share Posted July 13, 2004 What's wrong about forgetting??????? Even Ulic Qel-Droma was stripped of the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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