sniggy Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 There was no deliberate mind-wipe by the Council. Revans mind was damaged when his ship was blasted by Malak. As for KotOR2, i guess it's similar to Nomi Sunrider removing Ulic Qel-Droma's connection with the Force in the Tales of the Jedi-comics. Chris Avellone posted in one of the threads here that the PC in KotOR2 has all his/her memories intact so i don't think we'll see any big revelations about his past. we had that power in kotor- force breach could temporarily block the opponent from the force. a more powerful version could extend that period. on the other side, it could be just someone who's sick of "the force mumbo-jumbo" and just stops using it (well, except maybe in some convenient moments... you WILL go out with me... no, i DON'T need to pay this meal...) It's very hard to be polite if you're a cat.
Seth Tansill Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 This reminds me of the time in KotOR1 where our PC forgot (s)he could use force jump over the acid pool on Korriban... EDIT: added the (s) :D
OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 PC Force Persuade: You want to delete this topic-OMFG! It burns! It BURNS! My eyes! My eyes! They're BLEEDING! Kreia: What's the matter? PC:It burns Mom! It BURNS! Kreia: Ahhhh...Let me get the cream, son... PC: IT BURNS! Kreia: Hold on, let me read the directions...M'kay, let's see... PC: IT BURNS! Kreia: For treatment of Force related allergies... PC: No! The other cream! Kreia: What other cream? PC: FLAMING UNDERPANTS! Kreia: Oh, the herpes medicine... PC: IT BURNS! Kreia: Stop crying now you little p****. Remember that's why daddy left... :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:
Fardragon Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 From what has been said it seems to me most likely that you where given the boot from the jedi order for somthing that occured during the Mandalorian wars. Your ability to use the force was probably blocked at the same time and your lightsabre confenscated. Your lightsabre is probably somewhere in the ruins of the jedi enclave on Dantooine. There may be personal lightsabres in this game which have the characters name and have a bonus when used by that character (eg PC's lightsabre +1 att when used by PC). Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!
OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 I thought you were supposed to reclaim your lightsaber on Peragus...but on Dantooine would probably be a better idea...
GhostofAnakin Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 Not really trying to start a big long arguement here, but why do people insist that certain things (such as Mind Wipe, etc.) are "impossible" or "unbelievable"? Keep in mind that we're talking about a universe where there are space ships and people called Jedi who can do strange things with their minds. ANYTHING can be believable, as long as it's explained properly. Personally, I thought the Revan thing was adequately explained. Here's a badly injured (close to dying) individual, who was in a very weakened state when the Council implanted false memories in his mind. To the person who said if this thing can be done, there'd be no Sith, that's an incorrect assumption. Revan was incapacitated and on the brink of death. Thus, he had no strength or power to fight against what the Council was doing to him. I'm sure that if he was 100% healthy, the "mind wipe" wouldn't have worked because he wouldn't have let it work. Same with why this couldn't be used to end the Sith because as long as each Sith or Dark Jedi is healthy, they're too strong to use it against. Thus, you can't compare what can be done to someone who is incapacitated to that of someone who is alert and healthy. IMO, ideas aren't "stupid". The way they are explained determines the validity of that idea, not the idea itself. So as long as Obsidian can come up with a good explanation for the PC being out of touch, or losing, or whatever, the Force, then I think it'll work. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
Meshugger Posted June 3, 2004 Author Posted June 3, 2004 Not really trying to start a big long arguement here, but why do people insist that certain things (such as Mind Wipe, etc.) are "impossible" or "unbelievable"? Keep in mind that we're talking about a universe where there are space ships and people called Jedi who can do strange things with their minds. ANYTHING can be believable, as long as it's explained properly. Personally, I thought the Revan thing was adequately explained. Here's a badly injured (close to dying) individual, who was in a very weakened state when the Council implanted false memories in his mind. To the person who said if this thing can be done, there'd be no Sith, that's an incorrect assumption. Revan was incapacitated and on the brink of death. Thus, he had no strength or power to fight against what the Council was doing to him. I'm sure that if he was 100% healthy, the "mind wipe" wouldn't have worked because he wouldn't have let it work. Same with why this couldn't be used to end the Sith because as long as each Sith or Dark Jedi is healthy, they're too strong to use it against. Thus, you can't compare what can be done to someone who is incapacitated to that of someone who is alert and healthy. IMO, ideas aren't "stupid". The way they are explained determines the validity of that idea, not the idea itself. So as long as Obsidian can come up with a good explanation for the PC being out of touch, or losing, or whatever, the Force, then I think it'll work. You should think twice before posting something like that, these forums are filled people who have read every official and semi-official comicbook that's out there, who will come with equally justifiable arguments on why 'Mind Wipe' is impossible. Eventhough your post does make sense.... "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
GhostofAnakin Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 You should think twice before posting something like that, these forums are filled people who have read every official and semi-official comicbook that's out there, who will come with equally justifiable arguments on why 'Mind Wipe' is impossible. Eventhough your post does make sense.... I'd actually welcome any LEGITIMATE explanations. I just don't think there are any, other than "it's never been done" or "it's impossible to do because Revan would be too strong" or something like that. Fact is, in terms of cannon, games aren't much farther down the list in terms of what is considered "legitimate" compared to comics. So therefore, it can be argued that new ideas or unused ideas, such as what happenend to Revan, can be introduced. And for those who say the comics say it is impossible, then that starts an endless debate about stuff that the MOVIES say are wrong or impossible about the comics (ie. the Boba Fett fiasco). "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation)
Drakron Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 The question is simply "why". The Jedi Order is not a buch of Nazis that prevent anyone that is capable of using the Force of doing so if they dont join up with then. Ulic case was extreme and not the norm, people forget that Ulic was Exar Kun right hand man and a war criminal. In Revan case he had his mind shattered and he was not blocked from using the Force he simply did not knew how until he retained and awaken memories. There is no reason why The Munchkin One in SW:TML have to have a "mind wipe" or "force blocking" effect since he cannot done anything to put him on such position unless OE is pulling another "Revan" with quite frankly would be a really stupid move, they already stated that The Muchkin One suffers for no memory loss and the like.
Nartwak Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 Really, the character is probably just out of practice.
Meshugger Posted June 3, 2004 Author Posted June 3, 2004 The easiest way would be that the MC would have just been a Padawan(but a promising one, very strong in the force) when he/she got booted from the Jedi Order, making the MC a mere lvl 1 Jedi in the beginning of KotOR II. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Drakron Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 Actually the easier way is simply throw the character in and dont give a damn about explaining levels. People only get confused when they are supposed to be playing some kind of "powerful somthing" and start as lv1, if they start as a nobody they dont care.
OLD SKOOL WHEELMAN Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 Good idea, unless your supposed to be the master...or maybe you get an apprentice when you become stronger... Slightly Off Topic: Vote in my Master Apprentice Topic, matey! Edit: Directed at Meshugger
Meshugger Posted June 3, 2004 Author Posted June 3, 2004 Good idea, unless your supposed to be the master...or maybe you get an apprentice when you become stronger... Slightly Off Topic: Vote in my Master Apprentice Topic, matey! Edit: Directed at Meshugger As you said, if there's a possibility to get an apprentice in KotOR II, it will probably be later in the game, to give the illusion of the master stronger and wiser than the apprentice. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
nightcleaver Posted June 3, 2004 Posted June 3, 2004 I'm going to put my case down and leave. Trudging through the sludge isn't the most fun on this forum. I remember them saying that you wake up after a long sleep or some such on the Peragus station, cryogenic storage maybe, and thus you haven't been using the force. I've read somewhere about a force user having his powers taken away by the Jedi Council before he was exiled for whatever offenses he commited - official stuff here, not just fan-fic. That means it's perfectly plausible, whether you like it or not, to have that happen. Also, the Jedi Council's power has faded, so maybe with that they allow you to regain your powers... or they don't have control over whether you begin to or not... So the main character was exiled by the Jedi Council after the Mandalorian war, and somehow he ends up on the Peragus mining station, just waking up from a years-long cryogenic sleep.
Drakron Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 If case you did not noticed I decided to address SW:TSL as munchkin since they noted epic levels were in ... so "The Munchkin One"=the character we play in the game (its also a stab at "The Nameless One" of Planescape:Torment).
Maria Caliban Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 Really, the character is probably just out of practice. That was my thought. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.
Opus131 Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 Who's ever said your character was any better of a Jedi then what you start at the beginning of the game ?!? The fact he/she fought in the Mandalorian war doesn't mean anything. Maybe he didn't forget how to use the force, maybe he wasn't any good at it in the first place... Opus131
Enoch Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 Who's ever said your character was any better of a Jedi then what you start at the beginning of the game ?!? The fact he/she fought in the Mandalorian war doesn't mean anything. Maybe he didn't forget how to use the force, maybe he wasn't any good at it in the first place... Exactly. And I'll do you one better: The fact that he/she was "a veteran" of the Mandalorian Wars doesn't mean that h/s even "fought." Nothing says that the main character wasn't a "veteran" accountant in the mercenary payroll department. Plus, people seem to forget that all the effort and work in Jedi training is necessary to get you to the point where you're a level 1 jedi with 0 XP. A level 1 jedi is pretty dang powerful.
Berserk Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 Who's ever said your character was any better of a Jedi then what you start at the beginning of the game ?!? The fact he/she fought in the Mandalorian war doesn't mean anything. Maybe he didn't forget how to use the force, maybe he wasn't any good at it in the first place... He/She survived against the Mandalorians. That has to mean something. Who is to say that the protagonist was involved in any of the fighting? Could be that you were part of a vanguard force that didn't see any action. Another explanation is that you were an apprentice during the wars and became a fullfledged level 1 Jedi during the fighting....
Opus131 Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 He/She survived against the Mandalorians. That has to mean something. Not necessarely. What if he was a combat pilot rather then an infantry grunt ?!? I mean, this is Star Wars, it's sci-fi, wars are fought with spaceships and gicantic walking command centers, rarely on foot. I bet infantry is mostly used for occupation, like the Sith did on Taris. And even then, he would have gained levels as a soldier, not a Jedi. Carth was a veteran soldier as well but he wasn't exactly very high level, nor was Canderous (agruably a 'true' veteran). Besides, don't forget that the leveling system created for D20 strives to mimic reality. A level one character is a professional. At level 5 you are a veteran. At level 10 you are already a figure of considerable proportion. In D&D a level 10 warrior is considered a warlord already, you can even have your own stronghold and soldiers under your command. If translated into the game, most of the great generals and warrios in our history aren't propably much highter then that. A level 20 character doesn't exist in the real world. Just because KOTOR allowed you to reatch legendary levels in a time span of a few months (which is a necessary evil for the purposes of the game i suppose), it doesn't mean all other characters can't follow the proper characterization, particularly has far as the story line is concerned. Take Jolee for instance. He was as old as anybody in the council, but he wasn't very high level when you meet him, certain characters don't even grow after a certain point (actually, as far as a i remeber Jolee even receded in power with age). Of course, such realism gets thrown out of the window once a character becomes playable, but what can you do... Opus131
Adria Teksuni Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 From what I understand of what I've read and the various people I've talked to, you are a Jedi veteran of the Mandalorian Wars, as in, you fought as a Jedi during the Wars. However, you become disgruntled with the Council and go into self-exile, much like Jolee did. I'm thinking that this is because you DID fight in the Mandalorian Wars, which the Jedi Council expressly forbid, and you followed Revan, who then turned to the Dark Side. This could completely turn off any character, seeing the Force as either a manipulative energy able to twist the strongest to its will at a whim (this could work for Light or Dark siders, anyone who's stubborn wouldn't like this), or complete and total disillusionment with the Council at its withholding of information as to WHY they shouldn't fight in the Wars, the story of what they did to Revan could have come out, there are a million reasons why the character would voluntarily cut themselves off from the Force and go out of practise, thus "forgetting" how to use it most effectively. Using the Force is like any other skill. No matter how powerful you are, if you don't practise, you get rusty. And sorry, Alyt, but the Council did erase Revan's mind and implant a new personality. Never assume malice when stupidity is to blame.
Fardragon Posted June 4, 2004 Posted June 4, 2004 I'm not so sure about self-exile. I got the impression the PC had been thrown out of the order. Everyone knows Science Fiction is really cool. You know what PoE really needs? Spaceships! There isn't any game that wouldn't be improved by a space combat minigame. Adding one to PoE would send sales skyrocketing, and ensure the game was remembered for all time!!!!!
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