The world, realms, places, coats of arms

[J.E. Sawyer]

Nice job, folks.

 

I generally figured that if the charges were all in one field, the description would read something like "party per fess embattled, verte two estoiles or, argent", so it's got to be either like that, or both along the fess itself (though I don't think I've ever seen charges placed like that).

 

I couldn't find a standard for describing it that way, but the estoiles are both supposed to be in the top/vert field with nothing in the argent field (which is practically unknown in Euro heraldry, I know).

 

The difference between indented and dancetty is usually size/number of the peaks in the line.  Indented typically has a lot more than dancetty.

 

And yeah in addition to ignoring the general "metal on metal" rules, they also ignore natural color rules for animals, so the falcon is entirely gules (no special colors armed or langed).

[JFSOCC]

the benefit of PoE heraldry, I imagine, is that it isn't bound by the same limits as real world heraldry.

 

I'm curious, will we be able to tell character traits or house traits based on their heraldry? Like, I recently saw in QI that a knight who killed someone who had begged for mercy would have his heraldry altered to depict this foul deed... Would be cool.

 

Though I admit I know practically nothing about the topic, I love what I'm reading here.

 

Is there going to be a resource in-game for what certain heraldry means? or is it something of a nod to those who do know something about it, and not affect the game otherwise?

 

I'd be cool if at some point you could design your own, or have your own designed based on some of the traits/choices you made.

 

Ah, I know, pipe dreams and too much scope. still, one can fantasize.

[StromIV]

This is all reminding me of the Coat of Arms thing they have going on for Shroud of the Avatar.  There are people that love heraldry that are basically doing nothing but making people CoA's.

 

Edit:  And yes, I know PoE isn't going off of the set 'rules' that govern the making of a CoA's.  Still, I am glad to see this happen in the game.

Edited May 6, 2014 by StromIV

[IndiraLightfoot]

"Amphibia, reptiles, and insects sometimes occur, particularly toads, serpents, adders, tortoises, scorpions, snails, grasshoppers, spiders, ants, bees, and gad-flies. It is singular that such despised and noxious creatures as the scorpion and the toad should have been adopted as marks of honour; yet such, in former times, was the taste for allusive arms that the Botreuxes, of Cornwall, relinquished a simple antient coat in favour of one containing three toads, because the word ‘botru’ in the Cornish language signified a toad!" Mark Antony Lower, 2012.

 

This entire e-book on heraldry is available for free thanks to the Gutenberg-project. Perhaps can add it to his inspirational literature?

http://www.gutenberg.org/files/38951/38951-h/38951-h.htm

[J.E. Sawyer]

Yeah, stuff like the toad is what's called canting arms, where the devices represent some play on the name of the family or kingdom.

 

We plan to have major heraldry in the campaign almanac though we probably won't have full explanations for all of the devices and why families have them.

[Suburban-Fox]

So, Junta and Kaz, you had it right first time!

 

 

Is there going to be a resource in-game for what certain heraldry means? or is it something of a nod to those who do know something about it, and not affect the game otherwise?

 

It'd be cool if the game's manual contained a section on heraldry...if not how to read it, at least a list of each coat of arms and to whom they belonged.

 

 

I'd be cool if at some point you could design your own, or have your own designed based on some of the traits/choices you made.

 

Now THAT would be really cool!! :D  Although we don't yet know if the protagonist does get ennobled during the campaign, but if he did, it'd be awesome if their actual contents depended on certain IG factors...that way, we could all start a thread posting pictures of the coat of arms that we were granted!

[Messier-31]

Yeah, stuff like the toad is what's called canting arms, where the devices represent some play on the name of the family or kingdom.

 

In case someone doesn't uderstand what canting is; coat of arms of my hometown is a great example.

 

City of Łódź, which literally means "Boat"

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%81%C3%B3d%C5%BA

 

 

Another example is from literature; the character Borch Three Jackdaws from the Witcher stories by Andrzej Sapkowski

 

 

http://witcher.wikia.com/wiki/Borch

Edited May 6, 2014 by Messier-31

[IndiraLightfoot]

I'm dreaming of a city of Lody, and what an appetizing canting arms it would have!

[ArtB]

 

 

 

 

I'd be cool if at some point you could design your own, or have your own designed based on some of the traits/choices you made.

 

Now THAT would be really cool!! :D  Although we don't yet know if the protagonist does get ennobled during the campaign, but if he did, it'd be awesome if their actual contents depended on certain IG factors...that way, we could all start a thread posting pictures of the coat of arms that we were granted!

 

Well, the protagonist does get a castle early on. I assume it comes packaged with a nice little title.

Edited May 6, 2014 by ArtB

[IndiraLightfoot]

Indeed, ArtB.

And very nice idea, Suburban-Fox!

 

So when we get our stronghold, perhaps we get to make our own coat of arms. And if not in PE vanilla, perhaps in the expansion?

[ArtB]

Day 1 "Coat of Arms" DLC!

[Lychnidos]

Day 1 "Coat of Arms" DLC!

 

Oddly suspicious with Paradox on board.

 

On canting, another interesting example is the coat of arms of Oxford, literally an ox on a ford.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2014 by Lychnidos

[PrimeJunta]

Speaking of canting, the Swedish name of this town translates to "wild man's beach."

 

[Forlorn Hope]

Wohoo, Lappeenranta for the win!

 

Edit: Also check out the town of Leppävirta ("Alder stream")

Edited May 6, 2014 by Forlorn Hope

[Suburban-Fox]

Day 1 "Coat of Arms" DLC!

 

Sssh! EA might be reading this, don't give them ideas!  

[Lephys]

Well, the other thing about symbolic, communicative-at-a-distance graphics like heraldry is, you could make a particular instance of a banner or tabard as detailed as you wanted, so long as it still maintained simple contrasting overall shapes/geometry and read at a distance.

 

For example, you could have a dragon in a really clear "that's a dragon" pose, and as long as the whole thing was generally yellow, you could have all kinds of detailed scales and eyes and such up close. Obviously you wouldn't see all those details across a battlefield, but you could still see the background field of the banner, and the silhouette of what would look like a yellow dragon.

[Wombat]

Considering the world of PoE is at the edge of transition, some might be interested in this BBC documentary about a role of symbolism/iconoclast/vandalism, upon which I stumbled today.

[HoonDing]

lol at the blue & yellow coat.

[Suburban-Fox]

Well, the other thing about symbolic, communicative-at-a-distance graphics like heraldry is, you could make a particular instance of a banner or tabard as detailed as you wanted, so long as it still maintained simple contrasting overall shapes/geometry and read at a distance.

 

For example, you could have a dragon in a really clear "that's a dragon" pose, and as long as the whole thing was generally yellow, you could have all kinds of detailed scales and eyes and such up close. Obviously you wouldn't see all those details across a battlefield, but you could still see the background field of the banner, and the silhouette of what would look like a yellow dragon.

 

Yep, again, that's the nice thing about heraldry. The charges can be as simple, or as detailed, as you desire, as long as it's identifiable as that particular charge (i.e. it's clearly a dragon and not, say, a griffon), is in the correct posture, and is coloured appropriately.

 

Same with colours...as long as it's clearly red and not orange or pink, it doesn't matter how deep, or how light, the shade of red used is. Although in this case, if there are 'celeste' variations, then the colour has to be dark enough to distinguish it from its colour celeste.

[Messier-31]

Great thing about the lore of PoE is that it is so well made. I love the fact that the devs actually invented coats of arms for their setting... but I am still playing the game on my first playthrough (not much time for gaming these days) and I am on my way to Twin Elms, still there were no use of the coats of arms. I mean that these things should appear here and there in the game. On a wall. On a flag, maybe. On a shield of some warrior. But I've seen none. Remember entering Tazok's tent in Baldur's Gate? Those crests of Chill and the others leaning by the wall? That is what I'm talking about.

 

Could this be included in the future projects? Or some update?

 

Or I am just so lacking in perception, and I just missed to see it somewhere?