A plea for formidable and environmentally adapted animals and foes in PE

[IndiraLightfoot]

Playing IWD2, I come across a few animals (too few, I reckon), and they are not very adapted to their environment either, it seems. For instance, I've met great cats, leopards, panthers and giant snakes, and none of them seem to meld into their background when they attack, and they don't exactly surprise or pounce me either. Obsidian has a chance to start over, and thus they can make a few superb animals that are truly part of the environments and thus make them into formidable foes: fast, camouflaged and hunting in clever packs or attacking at the worst possible moment for the party. Some of the cats and snakes ought to be near-invisible. Let me show you what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PC0m8qJ8gTE

 

A favourite bad guy from the world of movies is the Predator, who has an uncanny ability to become one with the colours and shapes of the environment, something of an über-chameleon camouflage suit - stealth made totally deadly.

 

It reminded me of the Skulk, one of my favourite baddies to throw at unsuspecting parties when I tried my hand at DM-ing:

 Which suggestions do you have when it comes to animals and foes really bringing their A-game to their environments? I just want to get rid of those cannon-fodder, sitting ducks, those rows of purple-green masses of humanoids waiting to be killed. In IWD2, Obsidian really proved themselves when it came to positioning opponents and their ranged units in clever places. Now it's time to do an overhaul of the use of the environment.

Edited May 2, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Mor]

I hear you, but I don't think that NOW (with everything almost at alpha), it is the time todo overhauls . Furthermore, I don't want to be a party pooper but someone has to say it, don't get you expectation too high concerning verity, despite the amount of work the devs put into the game, realistically first iteration of any game isn't too large on verity.. only with expansion and later version they can expand by build on previous materials.

 

Personally, I'd be happy if bears, wolfs and Staelgars will be in as seen on god of the hunt concert art.

http://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/File:Galawain_conceptart.jpg

[IndiraLightfoot]

Yeah! Thanks for bringing me down to earth, and I realize that the theme of this thread is probably something that perhaps can lead to a discussion relevant for an expansion or something. However, it's also a discussion worth having, since I reckon animals and environments are under-used in CRPGs.  

[Nonek]

Seeing a powerful mundane animal that has become almost mythological in its hunting potency might be extremely interesting, perhaps it even has a soul. When I was a child I was told of the Lions, the Ghost and the Darkness while visiting South Africa, it was only when a film came out about the two predators that I was reminded of them and actually investigated their depredations. Truly disturbing. One can imagine a great Bear or Lone Wolf conducting a similar reign of terror.

 

An animal that strikes from hiding then fades into rocks or long grass, and one must quickly remove that environment with spell or what have you to reveal it. Or perhaps a long trek through its hunting grounds, with the emphasis firmly placed on hit and run attacks, until one can find some place to beard it. Maybe it even haunts your stronghold?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Nonek: Thanks for sharing that story. That's exactly what I mean. Some animal awe is in order!

And your ideas are like sweet music to my ears.

 

Just imagine how powerful the Displacer Beast and the Blink Dog would be (once again, from D&D? And even Diablo 3 had a few, for instance those Hulking Phasebeasts (which blinks around and teleport in a deadly fashion). Any creature that has such capacities surely needs a difficulty boost. 

[Nonek]

Druids whom have lost themselves in their bestial forms might be a most challenging encounter, one where all of nature seems to conspire against one. The instinct of a beast and the cunning of a man.

[Lephys]

Druids whom have lost themselves in their bestial forms might be a most challenging encounter, one where all of nature seems to conspire against one. The instinct of a beast and the cunning of a man.

... YES! 8D

[IndiraLightfoot]

Druids whom have lost themselves in their bestial forms might be a most challenging encounter, one where all of nature seems to conspire against one. The instinct of a beast and the cunning of a man.

I join hands with Lephys in praise of this great idea! Cool!!

It could be the price to pay for certain extensive shape-changing periods or perhaps to much changing within a certain time frame. Also, plenty of cultures believe that their shamans have got stuck in their spirit worlds after journeyed there via some trance rituals. Hence, killing their specific spirit animals were interpreted as killing the shamans themselves (while they, in fact, just OD:ed ) .

 

The legacy of miniatures shouldn't be under-estimated in CRPGs. I still have quite a few painted ones in my possession, and I do love that legacy. Evidently, many PnPers expected similar combat mechanics when D&D turned into computer games. They early SSI games, as well as the IE games of course are certainly evidence of this. I mean, it all started that way in a basement in the 70s, when Gygax and his buddy began to play war games with their tin figurines a bit more freely than normal, while using a Tolkienesque fantasy theme. However, computers have a lot to offer when it comes to translate the fantastic and fast into digitalized beasts, regardless if the game in question is turn-based, RTwP or even some AAA 3D FPS. Come to think of it, even an ancient analogue boardgame like chess has the only animal moving in a more erratic and fantastic way: the horse carrying the invisible knight.

 

Instead of having CRPGs present us with colourful monsters standing in line to be mowed down or exploded into smithereens (which is something that the M&M-series excel in, btw), it could make some of its denizens assault our parties with more speed, finesse and even unpredictability. Most animals put a lot of effort (and even ambush planning) into the first strike. Thus, many predators are almost spent after they have given their all in that first attack. A lion that misses a wildebeest may get kicked to death before any second wind kicks in. It would be nice if the combat system reflected this initial force in pouncing.

 

And don't even get me started if there were beings intelligent like us, but much faster or stronger and also able to phase in and out through walls or just teleporting around. I mean, they would be so bad-ass that we need to be metagaming the system itself to even try to win or even escape alive, almost like that Neo and his friends in the Matrix series. And take a look how powerful phasing ghosts (in this case, they are twins - how cute!) would be in a worldly setting. A spell like Blur certainly comes in handy for one of Mr Anderson's agents (and he's pretty much altering time, physics and reality to stand a chance):

Edited May 3, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Suburban-Fox]

I quite liked how, in Baldur's Gate, you'd sometimes come across a bear, but it would be non-hostile until you got too close to it.

 

Because bears aren't crazy-insane psychopaths. They only attack things if they consider it to be a threat, so a bear shouldn't charge you on sight the moment it sniffs you.

 

Also, wolves are supposed to hunt in packs, so it doesn't really make sense to wander through the forest and come across twenty lone wolves that each charge you by themselves and can be put down within seconds (because they don't try to run when they get hurt either). A wolf encounter will be much more exicting - and much scarier - if they stalk you for a while, and you occasionally just see them on the edge of your field of vision, until you get to a point where dozens of them swarm you at once.

 

So, yeah, it would be cool to see animals behaving more realistically, working with their environment and using stealth and guile to attempt to take you down, rather than just charging like a thing possessed the moment it catches sight of you.

[Namutree]

Druids whom have lost themselves in their bestial forms might be a most challenging encounter, one where all of nature seems to conspire against one. The instinct of a beast and the cunning of a man.

Great idea! Obsidian, do this.

[Volourn]

." In IWD2, Obsidian"

 

Obsidian didn't make IWD2. Anyways, ID2 was not a good game. IWD1 was 100x better.

 

That aside, I agree. Coolio animals are cool.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Black Isle, of course!

Every time is see that intro, I almost tear up.

[Mor]

Druids whom have lost themselves in their bestial forms might be a most challenging encounter, one where all of nature seems to conspire against one. The instinct of a beast and the cunning of a man.

There was something very similar in nwn2, corruption of the mare caused druid to loose their mind and stuck in their wildform, something that you have to investigate as part of druid companion quest line.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Mor: You are absolutely right. That was going on in the Mere, and it had something to do with the King of Shadows. You met a druid in bear form, and later on, more crazed druids, hehe.

[JFSOCC]

I don't see why animals with environment art approprioate camouflage couldn't make it into the game. I think that would be cool especially for ambush predators. A player with a keen eye will quickly notice them, and other players will be ambushed.

[Sensuki]

I thought Baldur's Gate 1 had good presence of animals throughout the game. Squirrels, Bears and Wolves and the like. Cows and Horses in Rural Areas. BG2 had Deer and stuff too in forested areas.

 

Added to the foresty atmosphere, that's for sure.

 

I've posted about this before, but I assume it's probably C-priority or less.

Edited May 6, 2014 by Sensuki

[IndiraLightfoot]

I just spotted a mistake of mine. It should be Mr Smith's agents of course, and not Mr Anderson's!

[JFSOCC]

I hope "monsters" and "animals" aren't as much the dichotomy they appear to be in many RPG's.

[rjshae]

I don't see why animals with environment art approprioate camouflage couldn't make it into the game. I think that would be cool especially for ambush predators. A player with a keen eye will quickly notice them, and other players will be ambushed.

 

Unless the combat music kicks in...

[JFSOCC]

that would be a pity

[Tuckey]

Don't forget about the trolls Obsidian are developing. They look camouflaged already and will likely use ambush tactics.

[Mor]

I doubt that we will have trouble spotting any creature(unless they will have some full\semi transparent effect), but its an interesting idea. Right now scout mode sound like a foolproof technic to side step any encounter except where there are choke point, it will be interesting if it wasn't the case for certain camouflaged creatures that will be hunting for us(also sneaking), so they will only appear if we have high enough perception(scouting suppose to uncover hidden tings, not just sneak around) otherwise they will appear invisible to us until its too late. Those wont be the semi corporeal creatures indra wish for but close enough, no?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Mor: Exactly! That's what I wish for as well, and as for those ethereal creatures like ghosts, it's just me wishing to see some true clever behaviour from some of them phantoms, instead of glowing and howling so that we get to detect them miles away.