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Will Pillars of Eternity have better combat system than Dragon Age Origins?

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"Are you joking? Irenicus dungeon in the first hour of gameplay have more enemies types than DAO in the whole game."

 

Are you joking? You can't tell the difference between BG and BG2?

 

And, oh, no.

 

\Please don't lie.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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First and for most Dragon Age Origins was remade to make Console Players happy that is whey it combat is not so good for PC players do any of you see PS3/4, X-Box 360/0 as the board for PoE no then it mean that the game will have combat like Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. So please get sober and try to read about what you want to ask.

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Ok, are you drunk?

if memory serves well DAO have:

Genlocks

Hurlocks

Ogre

Spiders

Drakes

Dragons

Demons

Abominations

 

That's it. You are trying to tell us all, who played BG that there are no more enemies than that in BG?!

 

 

There were multiple types of every enemy you listed.  Also humans, elves, dwarves, animals, spirits, undead, liches, and werewolves just off the top of my head.   

 

I'd be happy if the combat is as good as DA:O's.  I think it has a good chance to be better thanks to a greater variety of classes and a superior spell list.  I'd love for the game to have really good AI, which I felt was a weak point of DA:O. 

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Ok, are you drunk?

if memory serves well DAO have:

Genlocks

Hurlocks

Ogre

Spiders

Drakes

Dragons

Demons

Abominations

 

That's it. You are trying to tell us all, who played BG that there are no more enemies than that in BG?!

 

 

There were multiple types of every enemy you listed.  Also humans, elves, dwarves, animals, spirits, undead, liches, and werewolves just off the top of my head.   

 

I'd be happy if the combat is as good as DA:O's.  I think it has a good chance to be better thanks to a greater variety of classes and a superior spell list.  I'd love for the game to have really good AI, which I felt was a weak point of DA:O. 

 

 

Eh, still quite a few less then what BG had, especially if we count variants of the same base creature.

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In the sense that the combat system is built a bit like a gun made out of clay - that it doesn't really work, but at least gives off a loud bang before it breaks. No, don't want a fighting system like that. In the sense that creatures run around and past parties, before stopping and never moving again, making everything look either like Scooby Doo, or else like a replaying cut of the same boring fighting scene. Not really a fan. In the sense that the party dynamic is cut out, to make the controls work better, and to not make the programming so difficult - but that the fundamental NWN-system is still there, making the action stop and pause for no obvious reason.. not the best solution either. In the sense that the combat animations are made for a turn-based game with set turns, and then is forced on top of something that looks a bit like an action game - until you actually start to play it, and notice the counters and hit-registration still run on 3 second heartbeats... not great either.

 

I'm pretty sure we don't have much to worry about, though. Dungeon Siege 3 was a very good attempt at meshing turn-based or paused combat with action controls. Enjoyed playing that a lot. ..also from a game-mechanical standpoint, even if I'm not that fond of real-time dungeon crawler games, or lol and stuff like that. And from what Sawyer says, it seems that interference state between minions is something they're looking at from an animation and ruleset standpoint. The defense stances and so on won't really work if it's not accurate and real time.. so.. I suspect they're going for something that is a bit slower/more compact (that more happens in a shorter time) than DS3, and is intended to be paused a lot - but still is real time, with combat and events and animation interference actually looking like realtime.


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"First and for most Dragon Age Origins was remade to make Console Players happy that is whey it combat is not so good for PC players do any of you see PS3/4, X-Box 360/0 as the board for PoE no then it mean that the game will have combat like Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. So please get sober and try to read about what you want to ask."

 

I'm a PC player and the combat was fine.

 

 

"Eh, still quite a few less then what BG had, especially if we count variants of the same base creature."

 

No.

 

 

"Dungeon Siege 3 was a very good attempt at meshing turn-based or paused combat with action controls."

 

DS3 was trash. Thankfully, PE will have more in common with DA combat than DS3.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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"Don't be ignorant"

 

No.


"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

"...the vote of a black redhead disabled homosexual transsexual Jew should probably be worth the same as at least a hundred white heterosexual Christians."-Rostere

 

"i can think of many women i would gladly sleep with, but not a single one that i would want as a girlfriend/wife... neither real nor fictional."-teknoman2

 

"I'm all for killing dogs in film." - algroth

 

"Iselmyr is the one who did GOMAD... Aloth is lactose intolerant" -ShadySands

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"First and for most Dragon Age Origins was remade to make Console Players happy that is whey it combat is not so good for PC players do any of you see PS3/4, X-Box 360/0 as the board for PoE no then it mean that the game will have combat like Baldurs Gate and Icewind Dale. So please get sober and try to read about what you want to ask."

 

I'm a PC player and the combat was fine.

 

 

"Eh, still quite a few less then what BG had, especially if we count variants of the same base creature."

 

No.

.

No

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I will make complete list of opponents in BG.

^I recently tried doing this on another thread here. I got up to like 80 (and that's without even counting variants of the same species, of which there are....many. (there are more types of Golems in BG2 than there are Darkspawn in DA:O.) And I still probably missed about 40 or 50... or even more.

 

It's hard as hell to try and list BG2's Bestiary in its entirety. It will take you hours if you go it alone. It's far more numerous than any other game's. There is no doubt about that at all. The real question is: how much more? Well... by a conservative estimate I'd say at least 10 times more than DA:O's.

Edited by Stun
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Ok, are you drunk?

if memory serves well DAO have:

Genlocks

Hurlocks

Ogre

Spiders

Drakes

Dragons

Demons

Abominations

 

That's it. You are trying to tell us all, who played BG that there are no more enemies than that in BG?!

 

Sylvan

Grand Oak

Abomination

Hunger Demon

Desire Demon

Mabari

Rats

Raiders

Ancient Darkspawn

High Dragon

Flemeth

Archdemon

Genlock

Genlock Alpha

Genlock Sorcerer

Hurlock

Hurlock Alpha

Ogre

Broodmother

Queen Spider

Thaig Spiders

Werewolves

Blighted Werewolfs

Lady of the Forest

Elves

Dwarves

Golems

Sand Stalkers

Skeletons

Deepstalkers

 

I could go on, but do please continue being petty because you like one game over another.

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I could go on, but do please continue being petty because you like one game over another.

Please do so, Bryy. Because so far you've managed to come up with a laughably minute list by normal RPG standards. 30 different enemies. A number so pitifully small that it is an insult to compare it with what BG2 had, which is easily 5 times that many, and likely more than even that.

 

And No, this is NOT about "liking one game over another". (I liked Both games. A lot) But a game's Bestiary is not a subjective, opinionated thing. We are dealing with numbers that can be counted.

 

Give credit where it's due. Baldurs Gate 2 did a few things objectively well. Its bestiary is one of them.

Edited by Stun
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I could go on, but do please continue being petty because you like one game over another.

Please do so, Bryy. Because so far you've managed to come up with a laughably small list by normal RPG standards. 30 different enemies. A number that pitifully minute is not worthy of being compared to what Baldur's Gate 2 gave us, which is easily 5 times that many.

 

And No, this is NOT about "liking one game over another". (I liked Both games. A lot) But a game's Bestiary is not a subjective, opinionated thing. We are dealing with numbers that can be counted.

 

Give credit where it's due. Baldurs Gate 2 did a few things objectively well. Its bestiary is one of them.

 

 

I don't think that 30 different enemies is necessarily a bad thing--depends how well differentiated they are from another--but I will emphatically agree that BG2 had excellent breadth and depth of enemies.

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compare da:o to bg2 is a bit unfair, no? bg2 has benefit of bestiary from bg, totsc, iwd and the stuff added, finally, with bg2. heck, iwd were a black isle game, so bio got benefit o' a second developer's art. da:o, on the other hand, were game 1 in a new series. lord knows we got no idea what is relative effort to create  2d o' bg vs. 3d o' o' da:o, so am not certain how to balance that issue in favor o' bg or da:o, but at least we is limiting to a single offering from a single developer.  

 

now, you may return to the seeming pointless p3*** measuring.

 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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compare da:o to bg2 is a bit unfair, no?

I agree. The guilty party here was rather idiotic to try and do so when they know full well that you cannot compare a tiny little unripened grape to the massive, Guinness book of world records-winning Watermelon...... Unless you're an idiot who wants to be dog-piled. Edited by Stun

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A better comparison would have been Dragon age bestiary vs Neverwinter Nights 2 one. Taking into account the cost of creating full blown 3d composite images rather then 2d paperdolls used in the old infinity engine games. To me it seems much the same as voiced narrative dialog to unspoken written dialog in the old games. It was a matter of scale, the cost in time and money has to be higher to create a beholder as a 3d composite then a 2d paperdoll animation.

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I could go on, but do please continue being petty because you like one game over another.

Please do so, Bryy. Because so far you've managed to come up with a laughably minute list by normal RPG standards. 30 different enemies. A number so pitifully small that it is an insult to compare it with what BG2 had, which is easily 5 times that many, and likely more than even that.

 

And No, this is NOT about "liking one game over another". (I liked Both games. A lot) But a game's Bestiary is not a subjective, opinionated thing. We are dealing with numbers that can be counted.

 

Give credit where it's due. Baldurs Gate 2 did a few things objectively well. Its bestiary is one of them.

 

... why are you acting like I did some horrible thing? He made a statement, I corrected him. 

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Dragon Age has more enemies as a series for about the same number of games. Lists included for those who doubt. The lists I found / compiled seem pretty complete, some stuff is missing (like demiliches).  But! Dragon age includes a **** lot of palette swaps; 15 Genlocks and 12 Hurlocks!  And a crapton of enemies on the Dragon Age list are use once (brood mother) or not actually enemies (nug).  Even with this included they're almost certainly at least at parity, with DA probably winning.

 

A lot of fights in DA feel same-y, but it didn't stop me from playing Origins twice.

 

Baldur's Gate

1.       Adamantite Golem

2.       Air Aspect

3.       Ankheg               

4.       Ashirukuru         

5.       Bandit  

6.       Basilisk, Greater              

7.       Basilisk, Lesser 

8.       Battle Horror     

9.       Bear, Black         

10.   Bear, Brown      

11.   Bear, Cave         

12.   Bear, Mountain               

13.   Bear, Polar

14.   Beholder            

15.   Black Talon Elite

16.   Bone Golem      

17.   Carrion Crawler

18.   Clay Golem

19.   Crypt Crawler   

20.   Djinni

21.   Dog, War            

22.   Dog, Wild            

23.   Doom Guard     

24.   Doppleganger  

25.   Doppleganger, Greater

26.   Duergar

27.   Drow

28.   Elder Orb

29.   Ettercap

30.   Ettin

31.   Fire Elemental  

32.   Fire Giant

33.   Fission Slime     

34.   Flesh Golem      

35.   Flind     

36.   Gauth

37.   Ghast   

38.   Ghoul   

39.   Ghoul, Greater

40.   Ghoul Lord

41.   Gibberling          

42.   Gibberling, Diseased     

43.   Gnoll    

44.   Gnoll Chieftain 

45.   Gnoll Elite           

46.   Gnoll Slasher     

47.   Gnoll Veteren  

48.   Goblin

49.   Gray Ooze          

50.   Green Slime      

51.   Guard  

52.   Half Ogre            

53.   Hamadryad        

54.   Helmed Horror 

55.   Hobgoblin          

56.   Hobgoblin, Chill

57.   Hobgoblin Elite 

58.   Ice Salamander

59.   Iron Golem

60.   Imp

61.   Invisibile Stalker              

62.   Kobold 

63.   Kobold Commando

64.   Lich

65.   Mephit

66.   Mind Flayer

67.   Minotaur

68.   Mimic Killer

69.   Mist, Horror

70.   Mist, Poison

71.   Mist, Vampiric

72.   Mummy

73.   Mummy, Greater           

74.   Mustard Jelly    

75.   Ochre Jelly         

76.   Ogre     

77.   Ogre Berserker

78.   Ogre Mage        

79.   Ogrillon               

80.   Orc

81.   Orog

82.   Oytugh

83.   Quasit

84.   Shadow

85.   Shadow Fiend

86.   Sirine    

87.   Skeleton             

88.   Skeleton Warrior             

89.   Spider, Astral Phase       

90.   Spider, Giant     

91.   Spider, Huge     

92.   Spider, Phase   

93.   Spider, Sword   

94.   Spider, Wraith  

95.   Stone Golem

96.   Tasloi    

97.   Troll

98.   Troll, Giant

99.   Troll, Ice

100.  Troll, Sea

101.  Troll, Spectral

102.  Troll, Spirit

103.  Umber Hulk

104.  Vampire

105.  Werewolf           

106.  Wolfwere           

107.  Wolf     

108.  Wolf, Dire           

109.  Wolf, Dread       

110.  Wolf, Vampire  

111.  Wolf, Winter     

112.  Worg    

113.  Wraith

114.  Wyvern               

115.  Wyvern, Baby   

116.  Wyvern, Greater             

117.  Xvart    

118.  Yuan-ti

119.  Yuan-ti, Greater

120.  Yuan-ti, Mage

121.  Zombie

 

Dragon Age

 

1.       Abomination
2.       Ancient darkspawn
3.       Ancient rock wraith
4.       Ancient sylvan
5.       Andoral
6.       Arcane horror
7.       Archdemon
8.       The Architect
9.       Armored ogre
10.   Armored ogre alpha
11.   Ash wraith
12.   Bear
13.   Behemoth
14.   Bereskarn
15.   Blight owl
16.   Blight wolf
17.   Blight wolf (thrall)
18.   Blighted werewolf
19.   Bloodcrow
20.   Bronto
21.   Broodmother
22.   Cassian
23.   Cave beetle
24.   Charmed Templar
25.   Charred sylvan
26.   Children
27.   Corpse
28.   Corrupted spider
29.   Corrupted spider queen
30.   Deepstalker
31.   Deepstalker (variation)
32.   Deepstalker leader
33.   Deepstalker matriarch
34.   Desire demon
35.   Devouring corpse
36.   Devouring skeleton
37.   The Disciples
38.   Dog
39.   Dog (Dragon Age II)
40.   Dragon
41.   Dragon (variation)
42.   Dragon thrall
43.   Dragonling
44.   Drake
45.   Dumat
46.   Emissary
47.   Emissary apprentice
48.   Enraged corpse
49.   Enraged spirit
50.   Ethereal golem
51.   Experimental subject
52.   Fade beast
53.   Fade Rifter
54.   Fanged skeleton
55.   Ferret the Packrat
56.   Firesprite
57.   The First
58.   Flemeth the Shapeshifter
59.   Forgotten spirit
60.   Gangue shade
61.   Gate guardian
62.   Gatekeeper
63.   Gazarath
64.   Genlock
65.   Genlock (thrall)
66.   Genlock (variation)
67.   Genlock alpha
68.   Genlock archer
69.   Genlock archer (thrall)
70.   Genlock assassin acolyte
71.   Genlock conjurer
72.   Genlock emissary
73.   Genlock forge master
74.   Genlock master assassin
75.   Genlock necromancer
76.   Genlock rogue
77.   Genlock runner
78.   Genlock shadow
79.   Genlock shapechanger
80.   Ghast
81.   Ghast brute
82.   Ghastling
83.   Ghoul
84.   Giant poisonous spider
85.   Giant rat
86.   Giant spider
87.   Giant spiderling
88.   Glowing slime
89.   Golem
90.   Golem master
91.   The Grand Oak
92.   Griffon
93.   Hafter (dog)
94.   Halla
95.   Harvester
96.   The Herald
97.   High dragon
98.   Hunger demon
99.   Hurlock
100.  Hurlock (thrall)
101.  Hurlock (variation)
102.  Hurlock alpha
103.  Hurlock archer
104.  Hurlock archer (thrall)
105.  Hurlock berserker
106.  Hurlock bolter
107.  Hurlock Dragon-Tamer
108.  Hurlock emissary
109.  Hurlock emissary (thrall)
110.  Hurlock general
111.  Hurlock grunt
112.  Hurlock omega
113.  Hurlock vanguard
114.  Hybris
115.  Indignant spirit
116.  Inferno golem
117.  Kitty
118.  The Lady of the Forest
119.  Legion spirit
120.  Leopold
121.  The Lost
122.  Lusacan
123.  Mabari
124.  Malvernis
125.  Mature dragon
126.  The Messenger (Awakening)
127.  Monstrous spider
128.  The Mother
129.  Nug
130.  Ogre
131.  Ogre (thrall)
132.  Ogre (variation)
133.  Ogre alpha
134.  Ogre commander
135.  The Old One
136.  Phantasmal crossbowman
137.  Phantasmal shadow
138.  Phantasmal warrior
139.  Poisonous spider
140.  Possessed ogre commander
141.  Possessed Templar
142.  Pride demon
143.  Primal phantasm
144.  Queen of the Blackmarsh
145.  Queen spider
146.  Rage demon
147.  Razikale
148.  Red lion
149.  Revenant
150.  Risen ogre
151.  Rock wraith
152.  Runic Golem
153.  Sand stalker
154.  Sand stalker leader
155.  Sand stalker spitter
156.  Schmooples
157.  The Seeker
158.  Sentinel (golem)
159.  Sentinel (suit of armor)
160.  Shade
161.  Shadow warrior
162.  Shah Wyrd
163.  Shambling corpse
164.  Shambling skeleton
165.  Shriek
166.  Shriek (thrall)
167.  Shriek alpha
168.  Silent Crawler
169.  Skeleton
170.  Skeleton archer
171.  Skeleton mage
172.  Slave statue
173.  Sloth
174.  Sloth demon
175.  Snug the Bronto
176.  Spider
177.  Spiderling
178.  Spirit
179.  Spirit of Faith
180.  Spirit of Valor
181.  Steel golem
182.  Stone golem
183.  Suit of armor
184.  Swiftrunner
185.  Sylvan
186.  Thaig crawler
187.  The Dark Theurge
188.  The Forbidden Ones
189.  Toth
190.  Trickster Whim
191.  Urthemiel
192.  Varterral
193.  Velghast
194.  Velghastrial
195.  Venomous spider
196.  Walking corpse
197.  Watcher
198.  Werewolf
199.  Wild sylvan
200.  Wisp wraith

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A better comparison would have been Dragon age bestiary vs Neverwinter Nights 2 one. Taking into account the cost of creating full blown 3d composite images rather then 2d paperdolls used in the old infinity engine games. To me it seems much the same as voiced narrative dialog to unspoken written dialog in the old games. It was a matter of scale, the cost in time and money has to be higher to create a beholder as a 3d composite then a 2d paperdoll animation.

nwn2 is an obsidian game, not bioware, so that comparison is questionable as well.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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The lists I found / compiled seem pretty complete, some stuff is missing (like demiliches).

What? the list you found/compiled is not even halfway complete.

 

You've missed whole categories of enemies from BG2. Where are the 5 Demon Types? Where are the 4 Illithid Types? Where are the 4 Sahuigan types (and the 6 named Sahuigans? Where are the 4 Koa-Toa types (and their Prince?) Where are the f*cking DRAGONS? Where's the Gythyanki family of monsters? Where are all of BG2's non-hostiles? (since you've decided to add this silly category to pad DA:O's bestiary number). Where are the Familiars?

 

And where's Throne of Bhaal's Bestiary? You missed it. You literally missed it all. The entire Celestial family species. And the various Tetherian guards (all types) And Il-kahn guards (all types) The other 3 types of Golems, the other 2 types of Demons. The 4 types of Devils, The 3 types of Fire Giants. And then the list of Uniques from both games.....which goes on forever (Mellisan, Draconis, Demogorgon, Abazigal, Sendai, Yaga-Shura, Illisara, Brennen, Gromnir Il-Khan, Torgal, Irenicus, Shangular and his unique comrades + the other 60-100 uniques that I can't be bothered to name because I have to go to work in about 12 hours etc. etc.) The Elemental princes (all 6 of them) The Master Wraith (and for that matter, the gigantic list of undead from both the main game and the expansion that you flat out forgot. Yeah, that one didn't get past me. since it adds about another 30-50 to the bestiary alone) Ditto with the 2 beholder types you decided not to include, The New Deurgar types, the new Umberhulk type, All the new enemy variants from Yaga Shura's temple (there's a boat load of them... there Burning men, fire trolls, fire salamanders, burning skulls etc. And we can't forget the chinchilla Bhaalspawn outside the temple.) The Unique spider from Sendai's enclave, and for that matter, the 3 new types of spiders introduced in ToB, and all of Sendai's named guards.) Then there's the unique stuff in Abazigal's lair (eagle eye, and other types of beholder-kin, Lycanth the mad, etc) And each unique entity in all 3 final seals of Watcher's keep level 4...I think there's another dozen there) The statues on level 1, the Guardians on Level 2, etc.

 

And.... we're only scratching the surface. You've decided that the Genlock species gets 17 individual entries for Dragon age, but then you dishonestly decide that Mephits from Bg2 only get one...even though there are at least...8 completely different types of Mephits. You did the same with Hurlocks (they get 14 entries) can we do the same with Bg2's vampires? (which you only gave 1 entry, even though there's about...14 different vampires types, named and un-named?)

 

 

92. Griffon

Haha

 

Griffons.... are not in Dragon age: Origins or any of its DLC, nor are they in Dragon Age 2 or its DLC. They are strictly mentioned only in the lore. But if you wish to include lore-only entities, then of course we will do the same with Baldurs Gate 1, 2 and their expansions.... and that will force us to add every single monster from Fiend Folio, Monster Manual 1 and Monster Manual 2, that have not already appeared in the Baldur's Gate Bestiary ( so...what...another 1000 or so monsters? More?)

Edited by Stun
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No, I think I'll continue to be "snippy".

I copied and pasted.

From where?

 

I got a better Idea. Why don't you try *playing* BG2. Seriously, you forgot Dragons. That's a pretty Glaring Omission. That's like someone listing DA:O's bestiary and forgetting The Darkspawn.

 

And for that matter, you should maybe Play Dragon Age too, because This.... is nonsense:

Dragon Age

 

7. Archdemon

191. Urthemiel

Urthemiel *IS* the Archdemon.

 

And for that matter, there's a lot of silly double-ups on your List. Dumat. Dumat was the First archdemon, which does not appear in Dragon age, because he was killed 1000 years earlier. Kitty IS a Desire Demon. Sloth IS a sloth demon. Snug the Bronto is a friggin companion. (can we include on BG2's list all of BG2's companions?)

 

Schmooples? Alright, I'll give you that. And for the Baldurs Gate list we'll add Boo.

 

And I just love this: 38.Dog 39. Dog (Dragon Age II) A literal doubling up from both games. Excuse me, a TRIPLING up (123. Mabari) LOL. We'll triple up everything from BG1 and BG2 as well.... That'll give us another 200 entries on the BG2 list.

 

 

Your copy/paste list is meaningless.

Edited by Stun
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No, I think I'll continue to be "snippy".

From where?

 

I got a better Idea. Why don't you try *playing* BG2. Seriously, you forgot Dragons. That's a pretty Glaring Omission. That's like someone listing DA:O's bestiary and forgetting The Darkspawn.

 

And for that matter, you should maybe Play Dragon Age too, because This.... is nonsense:

Dragon Age

 

7. Archdemon

191. Urthemiel

Your copy/paste list is meaningless.

 

Then fix it instead of complaining.

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FFS, what's the argument about? Who gives a flying fart whether BG2 or DA:O has more monster types? With regard to the actual thread title, I have to ask (again): who cares? If PoE were intended as a nod to or a spiritual successor to DA:O, then the question might have merit. But since the inspiration for PoE are the Infinity Engine games (PS:T, IWD, and BG), I think the original question is meaningless.

 

Why all the argument and angst? Can't we all just get along...? :p

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